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Old 12-01-2005, 05:06 AM   #1
Impreza01
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Default Thoughts about competition improves the breed

This year, the Subaru WRX STIs have trumped the Lancer Evolutions in motorsports in the following races:
Super Taikyu
WRC
PWRC (aka Group N Rallying)
SCCA ProRally
Various Solo2 National classes

Now, I'm glad the STI won, but not because I own a Subaru, but because competition improves the breed. I remember it was only 5 years ago when the Lancer Evolution was mopping the floors with the STIs in motorsports. In Group N, the STIs weren't valued as much as the Evolutions. The Evolutions were practically Group A machines while the STIs were not. It was not until Subaru made a conscious effort with their Group N developments to improve the STI would the STI become a much more valued car (in fact, I believe it was 2003 when the STI won Group N). In road racing, the Evolutions wasted the STIs.

I actually recall the Best Motoring Videos Tsukuba time as the battle between the STI and Lan Evos heated up. The STI vers 1 - 3 managed to blitzed the Evo 1 - 3, while the later Evo 4 through 7 beat the respective STI vers 4 - 7. Now, the STIs seemed to have gained the upper hand. In the battle to one-up each other, Subaru and Mitsubishi have advanced these machines in the years.

Now this thread isn't a Evo vs. STI, but rather a hurrah for competition. I think the Evolution and STI battles improve the breed and thus we have the excellent cars today. I eagerly look forward to seeing how the redesigned Evolution and redesigned STI will fair.


Sometimes I wonder why more car companies do not use motorsports as a bed for R&D of street products. I know BMW does with its 320Si sedan that's used as a basis for the World Touring Car Championships. I believe many of the experiences and data from the Corvette C-5R 7.0 liter engine made it into the current Corvette Z06. If I'm not wrong, I also remember many of the Porsche GT3RS parts trickle down to the 911 series. I figured competition could double as R&D...
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Last edited by Impreza01; 12-01-2005 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:55 AM   #2
wilddave1
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I agree too. Any form of production based racing (especially manufacturer based) will improve street cars.

Highly engineered series (F1) will also have trickle down technology too.

To bad NASCAR lost all it's grassroots prodution based technology. Imagine if the currrent OEM Monte Carlo and Ford Fusion met up at Daytona!!!!
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:16 AM   #3
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I keep waiting for the carb technology from nAscar to trickle down. Oh wait, nobody uses carbs anymore. Nascar - Where the street car has more technology than the race car. LMAO
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilddave1
I agree too. Any form of production based racing (especially manufacturer based) will improve street cars.

Highly engineered series (F1) will also have trickle down technology too.

To bad NASCAR lost all it's grassroots prodution based technology. Imagine if the currrent OEM Monte Carlo and Ford Fusion met up at Daytona!!!!
Agreed. Some races are even designed specifically to foster growth in certain technological areas. I think the European Le Mans sports car racing series has an alternative fuel class.

Actually, the technological irrelevance might be my single biggest gripe with NASCAR.

Anyway, hooray competition!
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:02 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, Mitusbishi was a non-event this year in GroupN and the PCWRChampionship.

-Pons pulled out half way (the only real competition to Arai)
-Nutanhara was never a factor until Japan.
-Megdihini switched to Subaru
-Frisiero flopped back and forth between SpecC and Mitsubishi

STi is doing a great job transferring rally tech to road cars, too bad there isnt any competition.

Should be interesting how 2006 shapes up with Aki Teiskonen in a Subaru.
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:12 AM   #6
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EVO handed all of ESP their asses inclkuding STi's in Solo 2 Competition. There were practically no EVO's in STU which was one by an STi, and the one EVO in T2 for Club Racing was admitedly not prepped to it's limits.

An Evo also had the fastest time in the Dry in Street Mod, above any other subaru.

Not aware of anyone making a strong effort in Stock classes.
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratt_finkel
EVO handed all of ESP their asses inclkuding STi's in Solo 2 Competition. There were practically no EVO's in STU which was one by an STi, and the one EVO in T2 for Club Racing was admitedly not prepped to it's limits.

An Evo also had the fastest time in the Dry in Street Mod, above any other subaru.

Not aware of anyone making a strong effort in Stock classes.
The T2 EVO at the run-offs finished ahead of all the privateer subies and 1 of the factory boys.

Never the less, subies seemed to do real well this year.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:04 PM   #8
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After spinning off on the first lap and coming back from eleventybillionth place. IMHO it would have given the top 3 a run for its money if not for that 1st lap mistake.

-Tom
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhoppe
After spinning off on the first lap and coming back from eleventybillionth place. IMHO it would have given the top 3 a run for its money if not for that 1st lap mistake.

-Tom
I was not aware of that. I remember reading a post where he said that he didn't dedicate the time needed for a full onslought on the class. Due to I believe a race in T-1 or GT1.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:50 PM   #10
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If you watch the in-car from the Phoenix car, you can see him go off with the 350z on the 1st lap.

-Tom
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Old 12-01-2005, 04:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratt_finkel
EVO handed all of ESP their asses inclkuding STi's in Solo 2 Competition. There were practically no EVO's in STU which was one by an STi, and the one EVO in T2 for Club Racing was admitedly not prepped to it's limits.

An Evo also had the fastest time in the Dry in Street Mod, above any other subaru.

Not aware of anyone making a strong effort in Stock classes.
Being an avid Autocrosser I hate to say this, but I doubt any manufacturer gives Solo 2 any consideration when designing, building or marketing a car. So these results have little or no bearing on the relevant conversation, which is manufacturer research and development through motorsports.
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Old 12-01-2005, 05:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
The T2 EVO at the run-offs finished ahead of all the privateer subies and 1 of the factory boys.

Never the less, subies seemed to do real well this year.
That EVO was totally under prepared as the driver raced his old trans-am for most of the season after some heavy damage early in the season sidelined the EVO.

While the Subies (privateer and factory backed) were running decent struts, this poor EVO was on the (very) crappy stock suspension. Further more, I believe this model was an '03 which suffers from having the smallest turbo of any of the USDM EVO model.

I am amazed he did as well as he did. Definately compliments how good of a driver he was.
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Old 12-01-2005, 06:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01
This year, the Subaru WRX STIs have trumped the Lancer Evolutions in motorsports in the following races:
Super Taikyu
WRC
PWRC (aka Group N Rallying)
SCCA ProRally
Various Solo2 National classes
Super Taikyu - No clue how either did.
WRC - Mitsu underfunded and underspec'd. Both had problems but I'd tip Mitsu for a decent comeback if they can get a driver that's fast and feels comfortable in the car. They basically ran an '06 WRC Lancer this season.
PWRC - More Subarus were present.
*pssst* there is no more SCCA ProRally it's Rally America - There was NO factory support from Mitsu and the guys running EVOs are mostly running older versions. Hate to say it but not that many fast guys were behind the wheel in an EVO this season. Look @ what David Higgins did w/factory support. If he were running the RA series, I'd say the fight would have been much harder for both Stig and Pat Richard.
Solo2 - We didn't have many EVOs in the Detroit region. A few in TSM (Street Tyre Street Mod) one very very fast ESP EVO (John Tak/Andy Lieber who won nationals in it) and a that was really it. I'm biased when I say this but a certain A Stock legal STi owned by Matt Smith/driven by yours truely did beat a 380 whp 275 width shod Ohlins suspended EVO. IMO, it'd be safe to say that Subarus won this battle.
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Old 12-02-2005, 02:22 AM   #14
Impreza01
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The point of this thread was to talk about how the Evos and STIs are trying to one-up each other with each model year of the car and it's apparent in motorsports and that the consumers win.
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