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Old 12-09-2005, 01:55 AM   #1
gregr01
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Default TGV delete legal in STU?

Searched and found nothing on this...

So, is there consensus on whether TGV delete (either by removing butterfly valves from OEM housing or replacement with APS Tumbler Valve Delete Housing) is legal for STU? How about E/BSP?

Rules say intake for STU is open, so does that include TGV housing?

TIA!
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:01 AM   #2
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E/BSP...yeah. STU? dunno....that's modifying the manifold(after the TB)...and not the "intake". I'd make sure before you go too far.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:46 AM   #3
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I believe "intake" is defined as everything up to the turbo inlet. So, only filter and turbo inlet pipe essentially.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qcslvr30
I believe "intake" is defined as everything up to the turbo inlet. So, only filter and turbo inlet pipe essentially.
Correct.

Quote:
14.10.B: B. The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet may be modified or replaced. For naturally aspirated engines, the engine inlet is the inlet to the throttle body or carburetor. For turbocharged or supercharged engines, the engine inlet is the compressor inlet. The existing structure of the car may not be modified for the passage of ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet. Holes may be drilled for mounting.
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Old 12-09-2005, 05:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
E/BSP...yeah. STU? dunno....that's modifying the manifold(after the TB)...and not the "intake". I'd make sure before you go too far.
You sure about that for BSP?

I posted the question on SCCAforums with no replies so far: http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/16757...st.aspx#167571
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOwrXER
You sure about that for BSP?

I posted the question on SCCAforums with no replies so far: http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/16757...st.aspx#167571
It's legal in SP,
15.10.C. Carburetors, fuel injection, intercoolers and intake manifolds are
unrestricted......period
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:12 PM   #7
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I would agree with Top_Dog on this one. According to the SP rules you can pretty much do anything you want right up to the intake ports on the heads. STU...no way.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar
I would agree with Top_Dog on this one. According to the SP rules you can pretty much do anything you want right up to the intake ports on the heads. STU...no way.
Actually...1" past the ports....
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
Actually...1" past the ports....

True enough.

God, why do I keep insisting on running Street Mod???
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Old 12-10-2005, 04:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar
True enough.

God, why do I keep insisting on running Street Mod???
Brain damage, something something, delusions...
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Dog
It's legal in SP,
15.10.C. Carburetors, fuel injection, intercoolers and intake manifolds are
unrestricted......period
By that allowance, however, we are calling the TGVs part of the intake manifold. Is that accurate?
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:44 PM   #12
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They are part of the intake manifold. They bolt to the manifold, not the heads. And even if they did bolt to the heads, they would still be legal.
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBiggly
Brain damage, something something, delusions...

I asked God, not you. LOL



And getting back to the topic at hand, they bolt both to the heads, and the intake manifold, but are not part of the heads. So technically, yes, they are free to delete, modify, port, molest and whatever else you can think to do with them.

Again, referring only to SP, not ST classes.
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:11 PM   #14
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I just want to be 100% sure this time, as I'm a bit gunshy with the whole coilover mess...
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOwrXER
I just want to be 100% sure this time, as I'm a bit gunshy with the whole coilover mess...

I must have missed this. Joel, please pm me, or post here with this info as I had heard nothing about it yet.
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:23 PM   #16
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What's the current status on the coilovers? Has Clarification been issued yet?

We're one of the great minority not effected by this crap....for now.
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:39 PM   #17
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What coilover mess?
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:05 PM   #18
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oh boy.....the coilover situation is going to be interesting. Visit sccaforums, st section for the details. Its in the last 5 pages of the "big money shocks" thread.

Chris H.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken
oh boy.....the coilover situation is going to be interesting. Visit sccaforums, st section for the details. Its in the last 5 pages of the "big money shocks" thread.

Chris H.
Thanks. I read through and it's really.... whoah.

I would hope in the interest of many thousands of members that a clarification that was in the intended spirit rather than the current "letter" of the rule.

-Biggly
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOwrXER
By that allowance, however, we are calling the TGVs part of the intake manifold. Is that accurate?
I would say yes, and here's why. On the NA engines, you have both TGV equipped cars (Legacy) and non-TGV equipped cars (Impreza). In the case where the TGVs are absent, the intake manifold is a single piece that physically replaces the TGVs.
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
What's the current status on the coilovers? Has Clarification been issued yet?

We're one of the great minority not effected by this crap....for now.
I'll be (am!) spending a lot of effort over the next week to analyze the situation and get info gathered. Once I get organized, I'll probably ask for some help (data) from you guys. I'll post here in Motorsports when the time comes.

- Steve
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Old 12-11-2005, 12:41 AM   #22
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I'm surprised the TGV classing question hasn't appeared here or on sccaforums, but it is good that there seems to be consensus on illegality/legality for ST/SP classes. I've only run SM since adding it and that looks like where I'll be staying.

If you're thinking about TGV delete, here's my experience: I'm running APS' version of TGV delete and while it may be good for a few more whp it's probably not a mod to have at the top of your list without doing an aftermarket turbo, where the difference may be more pronounced. I was (am) planning for down the road and did the TGV delete while doing a bunch of other mods as well.

I'm putting down about 305whp/340tq (on a DynoJet that I put down 243whp/245wtq stock) on 100 octane with 3" TBE from BPM, APS TGV, stock intake/injectors/pump, EcuTek & UTEC both tuned by Clark @ Kingpin. EGT was low/mid 800c during the max run dyno work. Running 245 V710s, power isn't the issue now--it's driver ability and getting that power to the ground.
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Old 12-11-2005, 01:05 PM   #23
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I'm not a big fan of the APS deletes. I'm going to do the new Magnus manifold with long runners that deletes the TGVs. I'll be on the stock turbo in BSP, but we'll be pushing it for all it's worth. I hope to pick up a few whp and (just as importantly) drop 10 lbs from the top of the engine.
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Old 12-11-2005, 01:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
What's the current status on the coilovers? Has Clarification been issued yet?

We're one of the great minority not effected by this crap....for now.
They're working on it. I wouldn't expect anything until sometime in January. Steve made a big discovery last week that may help. We'll see...
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:34 AM   #25
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Wow, I just read that thread. Ummm, very interesting. It seems to me that there was a complete overinterpretation of the rule wording going on, and hopefully the SEB will look at everything and make the corrections necessary to the wording so that the rules are where everybody has always thought it was.

Somebody better tell Rankins about this...he just put a set of coilovers on his new 06 STI with slotted upper clevis bolt holes.
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