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Old 12-13-2005, 07:38 PM   #1
PKer
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Default Wet Auto-x Which Tire is Faster?

Which would be faster in the rain...Shaved Hankook RS-2 7212 235/40-17, or full tread Bridgestone RE-070 225/45-17?
The Kooks would be mounted on an 8" wide wheel, the RE-070 would be on 7.5" wheels.

I know there is probably very little data either way, but it's the off season for you people with an actual winter so let the rumor and conjecture fly!
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:27 PM   #2
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According the latest number of Tire Tests in various magazines ... hand's down ... The Goodyear GS-D3 would be THE tire to have in the rain. Expensive though ... although so is the 070.

Very similiar to the Toyo T1-S that I used to come in 2nd in a local Street Modified AX.

The Hankook sucks in the wet ... terrible wet braking! (Seb ... when I compare it to my old T1-S's ... and the GS-D3's are suppose to be better.)

Current Car & Driver (or last months) has one of the tests ...

Last edited by makofoto; 12-14-2005 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:35 AM   #3
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I've heard lots of good stuff about the Kooks in the wet, but have yet to have had the opportunity to drive them in the wet so I have no direct personal experience unfortunately.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:59 AM   #4
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When I raced with them once in the rain ... against Seb/PKer actually ... I thought they were OK ... then I started to remember how great my T1-S and actually my S-03's were in the rain ... THOSE were good rain tires ... the Kooks aren't anywhere close.
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:06 AM   #5
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Yokohama Advan Neova AD07 - best all round tire wet and dry!

And come one now Mako, you now see that some of the others have followed my path (which was also after Josh who was the first). Even Teague now has them on his //M3 - though in the 265 size = OUCH!!!!!!!
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:10 AM   #6
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at the last wet event i was at the victos did better than as304's quite unsuprisingly. but when i say wet, i do me full torential down pour soaked to the bones and a bit pruney after a work shift.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:36 AM   #7
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(We aren't talking about R tires.)

Some people would say the Neova in 245/40 is a bit wide for the 8" STX rim that Seb and I need to use. The Neova isn't available in 235/40/17, perhaps the "ideal" size for our WRX's.

Rocky ... Seb was asking about a wet tire. The Neova did great in the tests ... but not the best wet tire. The softer sidewalls of the GS-D3 also help in the wet.

I know you're still setting up your STI, etc. but the two of us were awfully close last Sunday ... me in Marks' unfamiliar STU STI with 245/45 615's, soft jdm Pinks ... one of which is causing the left rear to sag an inch lower then the other corners. You had your vaunted Neova's, coilovers, etc.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto
The Hankook sucks in the wet ... terrible wet braking! (Seb ... when I compare it to my old T1-S's ... and the GS-D3's are suppose to be better.)
Were the 'kooks you ran in the rain shaved? My friend ran full tread 'kooks at the South East Divisional in Norfolk where it was near Hurricane force rain on his STI and he said the tires were amazing in the wet.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:33 PM   #9
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FYI, hankooks were fastest in the wet on day one of nationals. these were at about 3/32nds.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:43 PM   #10
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What were they running against though ... mainly Max Dry tires ?

I wouldn't use the "rain" tires unless it was REALLY wet ... otherwise our usual tires are a good bet. Check out the tire tests in Euro Tuner and Car & Driver ... can't remember if the Grassroots Motorsports test included wet conditions?
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:20 PM   #11
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Our GRM test was dry only. We also cooled tires to keep them in temp range and ran the test as an autocross with more transitions. Hence the differing results for dry times.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto
Some people would say the Neova in 245/40 is a bit wide for the 8" STX rim that Seb and I need to use. The Neova isn't available in 235/40/17, perhaps the "ideal" size for our WRX's.
Huh?? Uh.... We were ALL using 235/40/17s. Josh, Phil/Mike/I, Andy Basham. As far as I know, Josh was the only one to try the 245/40/17s. Based on his observation about them being too wide of 245s for the 17x8s, we all went with the 235/40/17s thereafter. (So thank you again, Josh, for saving me some money!!)

We bought them from TireRack, who can also shave them. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....VAN+Neova+AD07

Our first test/street/rain set were 225/45/17s for my 17x7 street wheels. Bought those from Hoosier Tom, who actually beat TireRack's price and didn't charge shipping, since they were delivered (and mounted) at an event.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:28 PM   #13
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Even Mr. Yoko will agree that the Hankook is the better wet tire

-Tom
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:30 PM   #14
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FWIW, Andy Basham (who might have been the only one last year to try both the Yoks and the Kooks) felt that the Hankooks were probably the best rain tire out there (but the Yoks were close), but the Yoks were probably the best dry tire (but the Kooks were close).
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:30 PM   #15
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Also, no offense to anyone, but I wouldn't use anything then national level events with th e best drivers to compare which tire is the best. When you have local guys go "ooooh ooh this tire is the best" that means nothing as they can't drive the tire to the fullest.

Hankook > * in the wet, while the Yokos won out in the dry. I would say its a tossup, but I would take the Hankook personally.

-Tom
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:45 PM   #16
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And you should also take what some people on this board say with a grain of salt, especially if they're contract drivers

I get paid because of ALL of the tire companies. "I love all of God's tires..."

Per

Last edited by GRMPer; 12-14-2005 at 02:17 PM. Reason: edited to add smiley face so people don't get pissed off :lol:
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:38 PM   #17
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Ooh, ooh, can I get free tires? I'll stump for darn near anyone for freebies. Until then I'll probably stick with the Yoks if they maintain the same contingency this next year because I agree with Tom on this one. Kooks in the wet by a margin and Yoks in the dry by a margin. The Yok contingency offset the increased cost of the tires and we kept a set of full treads to use on the street and in the rain anyways. All that said Yok still owes us money and my opinion could change dramatically about using them if I don't see some of it soon.

This is on a STX WRX and your mileage WILL vary if you have a different car with a different size tire. In fact if you just test back to back with no changes to the car I don't think you'll ever find the true limits of the tire. The Yoks definitely required a different setup than the other tires we've used.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:45 PM   #18
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I missed the Neova being available in 235/40 ... sorry ... I guess the price blinded me. Less then I thought it would be though ... hmmmm
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:09 PM   #19
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The only reason I included the RE-070 in my question is that I already have a set that have only seen street driving and are already mounted.
I am only willing to buy one set of tires for my rookie appearance at the big game next year, so I was wondering if it would be any advantage at all to bring the RE-070 too.
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:15 PM   #20
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I'm very curious how the wet traction of the new Toyo T1-R will be in comparison to the top players and the previously great T1-s.

I don't think the T1-R will keep up in the dry, but it could be a top one in the wet. They always have a nice varity of sizing options too, which is nice, a few less than with the T1-S though.

Sure wish these would have been more involved in the recent tire tests. Too bad they weren't ready for the GRM comparison.

They are one of the lightest tires on the market geared towards max summer performance. Not cheap though. In the Yoko price ranges.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKer
The only reason I included the RE-070 in my question is that I already have a set that have only seen street driving and are already mounted.
I am only willing to buy one set of tires for my rookie appearance at the big game next year, so I was wondering if it would be any advantage at all to bring the RE-070 too.
The answer would be *no*. The RE070s IMHO suck in the wet and they suck in the cold too. Unlike other street tires that go off in heat but work well cold, the RE070 in my experience has a very narrow temp range where they don't work cold, then they work ok, then they go off.

The T1-R looks interesting with the sizes, but DAMN they are expensive.

As far as these Z212s in the wet. There is a reason that Hankook doesn't bother coming out with an R compound wet. Because the Z212 was faster then the Hoosier wet

-Tom
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:41 PM   #22
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You guys don't seem to put much stock in the various tire tests published in Car & Driver and EuroTuner ... we know that there are always problems ... and cars have to be tuned to the tire, etc.

But the Toyo T1R ... which I had high hopes for, having LOVED my T1'S ... did poorly in the Nov. EuroTuner magazine tire test (done at the TireRack test facilities).

Last in Dry Lap, 9th out of 14 in the Dry Slalom, 2nd last in the Dry Skidpad, 2nd last in Dry Braking.

9th in Wet Lap, 8th Wet Slalom, 11th Wet Slalom, 8th Wet Braking.

... posted the other tires in an earlier thread on this test.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:18 PM   #23
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I haven't driven the RE070 or Yokohama Neova to compare to those tires' wet performance... but IMO the Hankook is a phenomenal wet tire. I thought the wet braking grip was very good at full tread on track in a downpour, and the compound served me very well at 4/32" at wet autocrosses. Corner exit grip was very impressive, and the tire was easy to drive with a progressive breakaway and quick recovery.

Actually, I should say... "I think the wet grip is borderline unholy" because at aforementioned SEDIV in the rain, I was on Hankooks in STX and felt like it was cheating because the car was so easy to drive fast. LOL!
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:45 PM   #24
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Here is the Car & Driver Tire Test:

http://tinyurl.com/7lq5e

... they said the Kook was below average in the wet ... imagine what a tire that's good in the wet would feel like?!
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:52 PM   #25
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I too am disappointed in the T1R performance. they offer some kick-ass sizes, but who is willing to give up 0.5 to 1.0 seconds on a typical aautocross course in grip? Only if the cool sizes can make up the difference, such as at a Pro with the 245/35-17 size etc.

In the CD test, the Nuevo was quicker than the Kook in the wet autocross.

Chris H.
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