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Old 12-15-2005, 11:35 PM   #1
MachinesWRX
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Default How do your WRX hold up at HPDEs?

Hey guys, after 3 years of saying im gonna go ans switching from car to car, im going to keep the WRX and get to some northeast HPDEs coming early next year. I was wondering how WRX take durations of hard driving at the track. Does it maintain temp well? Any cheap mods that will help out?thanks!
-Chris
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Old 12-16-2005, 12:15 AM   #2
WillysPU
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Wow, that's a wide open question. I have tracked my '03 at least 20 times at Laguna Seca, Sears Pt. and Thunderhill and the car has held up fine (touch wood). However, I have upgraded brakes, suspension and exhaust that are all designed to take that abuse.

The car as stock does very well. I have not had any overheating problems but my oil temp has gone +250 degrees so I added an oil cooler. Basically, the faster you begin to go the more mods you will want. If you are just starting hpde's do the first one or two stock and then see what you think you need. That way you will appreciate and understand the changes that you make.

As you increase your ability you will want more power, then you will want better brakes and then better suspension and then more power etc. My advise is as your ability as a driver increases mod your car to meet those abilities and you will learn what you are capable of and what the car is capable of.

I have some advanced/intermediate hpde vids posted here http://www.putfile.com/willyspu

Also, be sure to talk with others at the track you will learn alot.

Simple things to do:
synthetic engine oil
Bleed the brakes before and after
fresh (cheap paper) air filter
Good nights sleep
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Old 12-16-2005, 12:30 AM   #3
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What have you done to the car so far?

Willy's list is good. I would add
-better brake fluid (I use Super Blue, I only tracked my WRX once though)
-track pads, or at least something trackable, i.e. a street/track pad
Eventually
-an oil temp gauge (really, this is a good thing to have in general)

It might be overkill, but it's pretty cheap overkill in the grand scheme of things. And brake fade sucks.

More brake info here
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...97#post8367297

Really though - the most important thing is that you know your limits and you don't try to do everything at once. There's no racing, no lap times, and you have as much practice as you want before you need to worry about running in HPDE2 or whatever. (and like Willy said, SLEEP, or at least lots of Red Bull)

john
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:28 AM   #4
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Thanks for the help so far guys.
Well heres what i have planned before my 1st track day.
Downpipe-already have
Uppipe-Already have
Ecutek tuned
Hawk pads
ATE super blue-in car now
Synthetic oil
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:23 AM   #5
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You're going to want to have some extra brake rotors on hand. Brake ducts would help as well. The car plain likes to eat brakes.
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Old 12-16-2005, 09:35 AM   #6
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yea i was actually going to fabricate some brake ducts. Wasnt there a write up on this for the bugeye somewhere? any recomendations on parts?
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Old 12-16-2005, 09:45 AM   #7
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I took my 03 WRX to its first HPDE last october... because the EP spec RX-3 was down for the season already.

of the enitre field, only a C5 vette, and a E34 M3 were faster. you should have seen the look on the guys faces in the Mustangs and cobra's.. let alone the heavily modded TT 300ZX the WRX Owned. I was within 1.5 seconds of the STI that was there in the run group ahead of me.

at that event my only "mod" or prep was Panther plus pads, and fresh brake fluid (I knew the brakes would be week)

Oh, and I was on stock wheels on 225/50R-16 Conti extreme all season tires

I am taking the RX-3 to an autoX/drag sort of set-up and thusly will be preping my 03 into a daily driver/HPDE car.

lets get some ideas going, and see if we can get an OPTIMAL (cost/perf) HPDE/DD set-up.

as of now my wish list for next season looks like thisafter 3 years of ownership, tracking the car has finally urged me to mod the car):
DP, full exhaust,
Accessport
new front rotors
My06 legacy/WRX TR rear rotors
My06 WRX TR 4pot/2pot calipers
Hawk or panther "+" pads
more brake fluid.
coil-overs (lookng at a used set of tein or Megan Racing)
ALIGNMENT
R-tires.. for my junk 17" Rays wheels. Maybe someday i'll find a set of reasonably priced 04 STi wheels/tires.
Sway bars and links.
rear lat links
rear trailing arms.
front arms

(i'll have to pick and choose from the list... as I am on a tight budget...)

let me know your thoughts..
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:31 AM   #8
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000, how many HPDE's have you done?
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0000-09-0233
a E34 M3
Never seen one of those...you mean an E30, E36 or E46?

Last edited by REX8; 12-16-2005 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:25 AM   #10
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I've done two HPDE's CMP and Summit Point.

Brakes, Fluid, etc.. All good mentions. The car is durable. But make sure that when you come off track leave your car on for 2 or 3 minutes. Your turbo will be used much more than you have ever put it through. I lost my turbo due to that fact. At Summit Point I left the car running and made it home with out any hitches.

I also highly recommend Cobalt Sport GT brake Pads up front with Axxis Ultimates in the rear. I daily drove autocrossed and have done 2 track weekends on one set alone in Group 2. Still have the pads on my car although probably not for the next HPDE. Also I'm still on my first set of rotors. Cobalts are VERY rotor friendly. (not affiliated with Cobalt)

My car is stock cept for helix up and down.
I run Azenis 215 on 17' SDR's
Valvoline Syntec Brake fluid.

Good luck and have fun
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
000, how many HPDE's have you done?
A few and some road-race and lots of autoX.... exclusively in Mazda RX-cars.

this was my first track event in the WRX.. and I have Pro-solo'd it one time before. what a fun event chewing up DSM's down the straight, then hearing how cute my purple brake componets were on the car once i returned to grid.


Yeah sorry, typo... E36 BMW.
(the most current 3-series M)
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:55 AM   #12
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MachinesWRX:

here is what I have learned so far and seems to work for me YMMV.

some simple big bang mods that really make a difference:
Suspension:
Things you could do this weekend to make that '03 handle:

$110 rear diff bushings and outrigger bushings + whiteline subframe bolts = tight rear in less than 1 1/2 hour easy install.

$160 24mm adj. rear sway bar (I like whiteline, alot of people don't) easy install, option to get stronger sb mounts $85 and end links $99 (again I like the whiteline product)

$150 cusco typeII brace

More time consuming installs but really not that difficult:

$125 22mm front sway bar (again i like the whiteline stuff) don't really need upgraded links.

$40 Steering rack busings and while your there $175 Whiteline Sport ALK

Big Step:
Eventually, you may want coil overs, I know there are a million ways to go here and I have tried a few, but I really like the flexibility of going with ground control sleeves that use eibach racing springs combined with koni adjustable inserts. end cost is about $1200. But, you get a proven system that allows you to set your ride hieght, corner balance, swap spring rates ($58 a spring) and the konis allow you to go from really stiff to decent ride with a turn of the infinately adjustable dial. If you add in the GC top hats or PDE top hats in the front and cusco or noltec top hats in the rear to can adjust for lots of negative caster and postive camber.

Brakes:
Since you have an up/dp and ecutek you are making enough power to upgrade brakes. Think this one out carefully. You can spend $300 easily on pads, lines, fluid for the quick upgrade, but then you will want a VF34 or whatever and the brakes won't handle it. If you like tracking the car it will make sense to upgrade the fronts at least to a stoptech/brembo/bear/twr/suabru what ever 4 pot bbk. not so much for stopping power but for consistent braking under stress and heat.

I went with the twr setup for a couple of reasons:
1 - they fit under the oem 16" wheels and toyo ra1 r-compound tires have a great fitting tire for this wheel. You don't want fancy wheels at the track, lighter and stronger the better, save fancy for the street.
2- the twr kit comes with killer 2 piece rotors. The floating aluminum hat allows the rotors to cool quickly and the 4 pot calipers use a common size pad.
I have 35k miles on my setup and they are in great shape. I run the carbotech xp8s on the track and bobcats on the street.

tires/wheels:
As I said before, I used the stock 16" wheel because toyo makes the ra-1 in 225/50/16s. The 16" wheel with these tires is slightly smaller than the 17" wheel and tire combo which results in a little lower gearing for earch gear which is what you want on most road courses. The 5mt gears are pretty high and this helps to make them a little closer in ratio. I switch to the r-compunds when I go to the track and use fancy 17's on the street.

Engine:
This is entirely up to you and is subject to everyones opinion:
I went with a sti ic, lightend pulley, borla headers, vishnu solid uppipe, helix dp and borla hush exhaust with a vf34 and ecutek tune. I also built my own external oil cooler.

Lots of low end and mid end power. At the HPDEs you are rarely going +120mph, but you are usually in the 4-7k rpm range so that is where you want your power. Huge turbos that start to spool at 4k may not be what you want, likewise the oem turbo runs out of breath at about 5.5k rpm.

With this set up the c5 covettes and m3's are no match for me.

I have had good experiences and found good prices with these vendors:
diff bushings and outrigger
http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...products_id=24
Whiteline subframe bolts
http://www.mpjperformance.com/cgi-lo...ode=SUBSUSMISC
Whiteline rear sway bar
http://www.mpjperformance.com/cgi-lo...ode=SUBSUSBARS
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Old 12-16-2005, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillysPU
If you add in the GC top hats or PDE top hats in the front and cusco or noltec top hats in the rear to can adjust for lots of negative caster and postive camber.
You mean negative camber, and positive caster, right?
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Old 12-16-2005, 12:12 PM   #14
WillysPU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUBA_Rob
You mean negative camber, and positive caster, right?
Yep, only into first cup of joe here in ca.
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:44 PM   #15
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Keep some cash around for random stuff that breaks. If you are just going to do a few days a year i wouldn't worry too much about wear and tear. But if you end up getting hooked and do a bunch of events every year, things get a little different. EXPECT small things to fail every other event and bigger things to fail every other month.
Wear and tear items that i've seen give me and my buddies problems:

Wheel bearings
pads (by the bucketfull)
rotors
lines
radiator hoses
gears
synchros
steering racks
tie rods
random gaskets
tuning problems (EM)

Nothing really out of the ordinary i guess. Pay to play. Like i said, i think it's all dependent on how many events you do per year and mileage. I just finished my first big summer of HPDE's and i guess i have a pretty dismal look on the maintenance side of things. I just didn't expect to be fixing so many problems all the time. Maybe there aren't that many compared to others and im just being a bitch who knows.

I know a few people who drive miata's and take naps in between sessions while i'm under the wrx trying to figure out how it all went wrong with brakes or other crap. Kinda frustrating at times. But it's fun when they point you right by.

The good news is if you come out to the COM events there are a bunch of us wrx/STi guys with a ton of spare parts between us - and a little bit of know-how. We'd love to have yah if you havent' already been!

-Paddy
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:05 PM   #16
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Chris:

Make sure if it applies to your car you have had the ABS fixed.

Also, join COMSCC and come out and run. There are a ton of WRXs and STIs there and even a few former subaru owners within the group.

Look forward to meeting you at the track.

Craig
COMSCC ST2 #28
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Old 12-17-2005, 12:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0000-09-0233
Yeah sorry, typo... E36 BMW.
(the most current 3-series M)
The most current M3 is the E46, 2002-05
The E36 was 95-99

Brakes, brake ducts and tires are the only "musts" for that car. Everything else that has been mentioned will be helpful, but is not really required. The degree to which they will help varies track to track. You can probably get away without the brake ducts at Lime Rock, but I would consider it a must at NHIS.

If you're going to be doing several events, I would reccommend looking into a roll bar, seat, and 5- or 6-point harness, especially if you're going to be running a lot at Lime Rock.

[shameless plug]
...and read my writeups on the tracks that you're going to be driving at before you go in this thread .
[/plug]
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:18 AM   #18
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did 6 time trials and 4 track days last year with my 04 wrx. Brakes are important. I want bigger brakes, but I rally-x and I want something that'll fit under 15" rims so no upgrade yet. Used axxis ultimate pads and ate blue fluid all year. bleed the brakes as often as possible when tracking the car. Never put the stainless steel brake lines in, but they're a great idea.

Just a note on safety... I'm not sure how the hpde rules go, but you shouldn't use a harness at the track unless you have a rollcage. Not just a harness bar. This is so your head won't get crushed if you roll. I just pull my belt tight to lock it, then adjust my seat upward to pull it tight across me.

Other than the pads, sway bars are a great investment. I currently have mine set for 24mm rear and 22mm front, but I might back the front off a notch to 21/20 for my next track day. Heavy duty endlink also make a large improvement. a 22mm rear sway with the stock front and some HD endlinks made the car feel COMPLETELY different when I first had them. It was on rails and far less/no understeer at the track. Good setup still for auto-x too (not too tight).

Best finish was a 1st in STX for the Time Trial Nationals.
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:25 AM   #19
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mine has held up fine (04) i swapped to carbotech xp8 at my last run [3 hpde (first 2 at pocono)] at limerock and for the first time ever noticed some brake fade. but overall it depends on your level and the speed at which you move up.
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:08 PM   #20
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Since you say you want to use Hawk pads, I would not recommend the HPS pads for HPDE use. I used them during my first DE event, which was at Watkins Glen, and I burned up a brand new set of pads in those 2 days. Or you could just bring an extra set with you and swap them out....
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:40 PM   #21
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Brakes and tires. It's a 3,000+ lb car and it's a little tough on brakes- the more you go (and the better you get) it'll get tougher. You'll likely go through lots of pads- I've had really good luck w/ Ferodo DS2500 (street/track) and more recently w/ the DS3000's (track only).

I've got a couple of write-ups on brake ducts at scoobymods- I'd highly recommend spending sometime getting additional air to the rotors.

If you stick w/ oe brakes for a while I'd also look at the "H6" rear upgrade- the larger rotors in the rear will help your brakes in the front.

Take full advantage of the cool down lap(s)- try and not touch the brakes at all if possible. When I pit I spend ~ five minutes slowly rocking the car back and forth to keep the pads on a different portion of the rotor- I've burnt the pad impression into my rotors before not doing this.

Bleed- bleed before, bleed after (quality DOT 4 fluid).

Have fun- the WRX is a very capable track car
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:01 AM   #22
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Thanks for all teh positive feedback guys.
Is there a website for COMSCC? and how much do the usual events go for?

Also, if anyone can find the scoobymods on brake ducts link, please post. ive went there and cant seem to find much
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWRX
Thanks for all teh positive feedback guys.
Is there a website for COMSCC? and how much do the usual events go for?
COMSCC

Pricing has been $150 for one day, $280 for both days. Most events are two-day events, however the second day includes a time trial and is for people who have been signed off. Track rental is getting increasingly expensive, so those rates may need to change for 2006.

-Keith-
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWRX
Thanks for all teh positive feedback guys.
Is there a website for COMSCC? and how much do the usual events go for?

Also, if anyone can find the scoobymods on brake ducts link, please post. ive went there and cant seem to find much
My 04+ one is on there, but not my bugeye

Here's the bugeye one

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62506
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:20 PM   #25
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Well, after 2 years of HDPEs I finally retired my wrx. I dont believe that the car was really built to withstand the abuse that track days bring. Heat is the car's biggest enemy.

Oil temps were in the 240's during the summer at the glen and mosport, so I went to a bigger radiator and that helped bring it down into the low 230s

the open lubrication design of the tranny just plain sucks. Much research went into this after I lost 3rd at Mt.Tremblant. I went to a 75/140 tranny oil and I think that helps keep the gears lubricated better under intense heating. Either put a 6mt or get a oil cooler for the tranny, the 5mt box wont survive long without better protection no matter your driving style especially if your putting more HP/torque to the crank.

Brakes, well, if youre running the stock size rotors, youre gonna have issues. I ran 4pot/2pot combo, with 2 sets of brake ducts to each side in the front. the OE duct position and another to the caliper/rotor on the trailing side of the drive shaft. There was a definate difference in the heat checking from the inside of the rotor to the outside. Even still the OE rotors are of sucky metal so I went through about 3 sets this year. ~12 days (NHIS biases the wear on brakes and tires)

A lot of peeps go through wheel studs, luckily I never blew any. I think a lot of anti-sieze and not cranking on things while they are hot saved me the trouble. That and not dropping wheels into craters...

Wheel bearing get toasted pretty quickly too. one of my rear ones were totally blue when I pulled it out a couple weeks ago. Im sure my fronts cant be any better, but still work ok.

Then theres the oil eating engine.... but wont go into that...

more or less thats about it...
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