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Old 06-27-2006, 02:09 AM   #26
FuJi K
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had I took a picture from a slightly more angle, it'll look just like that.
the hell...you get a ****en head and look at them....I've got to see them.

..tell me what you see that are different.....because you may be looking somewhere else.. if you had the heads NEXT to each other...you'd know what I'm talking about...
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:09 AM   #27
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oh, well, i guess since i only have a set of version 4 RA heads in my garage right now, i would have no idea.

the 25D heads are good, but not anywhere close. sorry
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Old 06-27-2006, 10:17 AM   #28
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I just wanna see how these "import" ver7 heads are like and the "big ports" ver7.
I've seen a SVX port, and those are HUGE, now are these "big ports" like the SVX ports?
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve View Post
And I am telling you that a JDM ver 7 head and 2.5 NA head intake ports are not even close to being identical.

You can compare the picture of my Ver 6 heads in this thread to the pics of the 2.5l NA head and see the HUGE difference.

Maybe the Import Ver 7 head has ports like the 2.5 NA head.
YOU find me a pic of your BIG PORT heads.
I've seen the SVX ports and if you're saying BIG, then maybe it's like the SVX ports.
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Old 09-06-2006, 12:37 AM   #30
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Here is a picture of big port heads.

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Old 09-06-2006, 06:58 PM   #31
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Fuji K,
I suggest you stop arguing with Steve as he is right. Last year about this time a bunch of us measured head ports on various heads. I measured DOHC Ej25 heads at 54mm x 38mm and Steve measured his v6 ports at 57mm x 48mm. I am going to go with his gutt instinct on this and suggest you are dealing with small port v7 heads, and your friend, expert or not, doesn't know what he actually has there...
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Old 09-08-2006, 02:56 AM   #32
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Here's my measurements of my EJ25 NA DOHC
2 5/16" x 1 3/4"

If you were to see the heads side by side, you'd understand what I mean by similarities. I'm not talking about where the INJECTOR TONGUE is...but the oval port itself and the runner to the valve.

The Ver7 heads that my friend showed me looks just like those posted. It HAS that new port design with the injector tongue being big and not small like the DOHC EJ25.

But what I'm REALLY AM SAYING IS that the port runner is of the same casting style. But eh....I guess you can believe what you want to believe. How are the small ports like? The runners.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
The thing is....it's a '98 casting...so they must have used the newer intake port casting...but still stayed with the straight accross intake bolt pattern.
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Old 09-09-2006, 09:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Fuji K,
I suggest you stop arguing with Steve as he is right. Last year about this time a bunch of us measured head ports on various heads. I measured DOHC Ej25 heads at 54mm x 38mm and Steve measured his v6 ports at 57mm x 48mm. I am going to go with his gutt instinct on this and suggest you are dealing with small port v7 heads, and your friend, expert or not, doesn't know what he actually has there...
What disinguishes a BIG PORT and a "small port?" Is it the PORT ENTRY where the intake manifold bolts onto, or is it the port runner to the valve seat?

From looking at the 3 heads altogether, WRX, STi Ver7, 2.5L DOHC....BOTH the 2.5L DOHC port runners and STi Ver7 where the same. The WRX port runners where ROUND to the port and much smaller port runners. BOTH Ver7 Heads and 2.5L DOHC port runners where D-shaped at the port entry then gets round to the valve whereas the WRX are round from air splitter to valve.

NOW when we were comparing the PORT ENTRY of the 2.5L DOHC and STi Ver7, yes, the INJECTOR tongue and PORT shape is slightly different (possibly due to casting styles then and now), BUT WHAT WE FOUND TO BE THE SAME, was the port runner all the way to the valve. The VALVES where of the same size too when put up against each other.

I should have took pictures of the 3 heads when we were comparing them.. . . . . ..Well.....I'll stop arguing and let you believe what you WANT to believe..... Yes, my friend did comfirm that his Ver7 Heads are the "big ports" that you speak of.

BUT REALLY what I was trying to figure out was which heads had the better port runner to the valve. LOTS suggested WRX heads, I've SEEN WRX heads as well as the USDM STi heads (Legacy Liberty heads w/ AVCS) and the port runner is just small. I had purchased these 2.5L DOHC heads BEFORE I started comparing head ports. Then I came back to desiding if I wanted to KEEP these 2.5L DOHC heads or go for WRX heads. AFTER researching and finding pics of 'said' heads, I decided to make this thread. LATER I asked my friend to bring his set of heads out for a comparison. We compared and he was impressed by the PHASE1 2.5L DOHC heads. The difference was the INJECTOR TONGUE shape & intake manifold bolt pattern.

but oh well...whatever.... (yes it's hard to believe the person on the otherside of the internet)
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Old 09-10-2006, 07:10 PM   #34
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if you cant see the difference between the pic you posted with V6 vs 25d even in your "highlighted area" you should check your eyesight, sorry.
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:50 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS View Post
if you cant see the difference between the pic you posted with V6 vs 25d even in your "highlighted area" you should check your eyesight, sorry.
So what you're saying is...that....the 25D port runners look like the WRX ones? I'm talking about the PORT RUNNERS....not the port entry. Yes, I can see there are differences in PORT ENTRY shapes, but I'm looking at the PORT RUNNERS.....

but I'll take a few more pics at different angles so you'll get a view of what I'm trying to say. WHAT I AM COMPARING ARE THE PORT RUNNERS
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:29 AM   #36
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like i said, you obviously CANNOT SEE because the RUNNERS, yes RUNNERS are MUCH larger.

owning Version 4 RA heads and haveing thier RUNNERS being bigger than the 25D runners is proof enough. the version 6 runners are huge even comapred to mine.

glasses maybe?
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:34 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS View Post
like i said, you obviously CANNOT SEE because the RUNNERS, yes RUNNERS are MUCH larger.

owning Version 4 RA heads and haveing thier RUNNERS being bigger than the 25D runners is proof enough. the version 6 runners are huge even comapred to mine.

glasses maybe?
humm....I dunno.... I like my 20/20 vision.....
lets feed the fire!

Here are some WRX heads with my 2.5NA DOHC. yes, you can SEE the big difference....yes I can too (with no glasses).


Here's the Ver7..or maybe Ver8 because it's some RHT20 # thingy oh its....
...and ya my 2.5L DOHC on the bottem.....


Few more just so you can see it better.....




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Old 09-17-2006, 03:38 AM   #38
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NOW HERE IS WHERE I GO INTO SOME DETAIL.

of course, the different combustion chamber...but top view at "this" angle


NOW with the SAME WATER BOTTLE CAP.
STi 7 head TOP, 2.5L DOHC bottem









SO WHAT's the BIG DIFFERENCE?
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Old 09-17-2006, 05:19 AM   #39
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the fact that you have there in your possesion some small port V7 heads.
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:38 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS View Post
the fact that you have there in your possesion some small port V7 heads.
Like I said before, how do you determine a BIG PORT and SMALL PORT?
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:09 AM   #41
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ones big, the others small
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
of course, the different combustion chamber...but top view at "this" angle
I'm surprised nobody is talking about the chamber differences (perhaps that is because chamber design is something of a black art).

The cloverleaf design on (what I understand to be) the 2.5 DOHC is very desirable. Lots of good quench there with the right piston.
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS View Post
ones big, the others small
thats funny....
if you haven't noticed....all the current BIG PORT heads have D-style port runners with the splitter deeper in the port.
All the current SMALL PORT heads have O-style port runners with the splitter starting from the injector boss going in then back up to the other side of the injector boss. You're not explaining to me what you're looking at and why it's a small port.

There's a difference in port runner castings.
SMALL PORT


BIG PORT


THEN, here's the comparison, AGAIN. WRX head (top) and 2.5L NA DOHC (bottem)



So I was researching more....and so it seems, the Legacy GTB RSK with the engine code EJ20R has the same combustion chamber. They came out in late '96 through early '98.

Ej20H - Basic ej20 turbo motor
hydraulic lifters
cast internals
7000 recomended revlimit

EJ20R - GTB/STI Engine Base
Bucket and shim heads
Forged pistons
different cams
7500 recomended revlimit

Our 2.5L DOHC heads started out on '96 Legacy GT's al the way through the '99 Legacy Outbacks. SO it's possible that our 2.5L DOHC heads are watered down turbo heads (EJ20R) w/ lesser cams and valve springs. Ours have Bucket and Shims. Here's a pic of the combustion chamber of the EJ20R.


The EJ20G heads with push style valvetrain also has the same combustion chamber.


Then the Legacy EJ20G head is like the STi


The clover leaf seems to not have good flow during low lift. Can you explaine more how they will perform? I'm thinking it help with fuel mixture because flow is focused to flow one direction.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:50 AM   #44
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even the V7 smalls are big, there are ones that are even larger, ie: large ports, either way you go, itll be ok, youre just starting fires cause you think things and youre not necessarily correct.

the small port head is gunna be better for response and loer end, due to higher port velocities. theres pros and cons to each head, but your argument of EJ25D heads are EXACTLY the same is just stupid, almost childish. stop

and the K "era" heads had the triangle quench, which didnt quench well with that era turbo piston design
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:48 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS View Post
even the V7 smalls are big, there are ones that are even larger, ie: large ports, either way you go, itll be ok, youre just starting fires cause you think things and youre not necessarily correct.

the small port head is gunna be better for response and lower end, due to higher port velocities. theres pros and cons to each head, but your argument of EJ25D heads are EXACTLY the same is just stupid, almost childish. stop

and the K "era" heads had the triangle quench, which didnt quench well with that era turbo piston design
The STi Ver7 head is stamped with RHT20. This stamp is also found on the STi Ver8 Spec C. Comparison pic of a LHS20V head stacked on top the "SMALL PORT" RHT20. I cut away a few spots so you can SEE.


What I'm saying is same are the D-style port castings (you can't seem to catch that). All the big port heads seem to have this style, which is why I was thinking that it may be one of the first of the BIG PORT heads. The STi 7 heads that I compared mine to are slightly bigger, like 1-1.5mm in width from the splitter to the side wall of the port. My port entry however is wider but shorter from injector boss to the top.

How's your IMPORT small ports look like? Are the port runner castings the same like the USDM WRX/STi? You can't just say they're small. I just

want to know what to look for. What distinguishing factors?
CC'ing the ports would be the only way to tell if the ports are larger.

NOW....from further researching, the USDM DOHC 2.5L NA heads are based on the EJ20R head found on the JDM Legacy GTB. The other side of the port across the injector boss is filled in to increase velocity, thus showing some of the head when the gasket is fitted over. PORT this area and you'll have a NICE LARGE port like the EJ20G below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Fuji K,
I suggest you stop arguing with Steve as he is right. Last year about this ime a bunch of us measured head ports on various heads. I measured DOHC Ej25 heads at 54mm x 38mm and Steve measured his v6 ports at 57mm x 48mm. I am going to go with his gutt instinct on this and suggest you are dealing with small port v7 heads, and your friend, expert or not, doesn't know what he actually has there...
MY PORTs measure (do the calculation: 2 5/16" x 1 3/4")
58.7375mm across
44.45mm from injector boss to the top
NOTE: this is just the port entry. Where mine has the carbon buildup, that's where the STi Version 3/4 big ports are. That's where I'm short

the 4mm. It will even be as big as the STi Version 6 RA if this filled in spot is ported.




Where did your DOHC come from? Unless my head was from the '98 and yours from a '96? I'm trying to do a comparison and you guys arn't really helping. You guys aren't pointing out details at all. All you're saying is this is big port, this is small port. Where are the details we should be looking at? Splitter style, port runner style, splitter position,etc... BUT I'll just compare them so the rest of the BOARD can see

what's what.

CONCLUSION:
Yes, my '98 2.5L NA DOHC heads are a stab smaller than the "BIG PORT" heads. They are based from the EJ20R engine with is found on the Legacy
GTB with the TT turbo setup. Combustion chambers are of the clover style. Valve sizes on my NA head appears to be same as with the RHT20 STi version 7 head. BOTH my NA head and the BIG PORT heads share the D-style port casting. The NEW heads seem to all have the larger injector boss
and sloped port to it. This USDM 2.5L DOHC NA head can be greatly improved on to flow LOTS of air. Only drawback is the intake manifold bolt pattern. You either find one that is the same or go custom and do whatever you want.

blah....am I the only one who was actually comparing? ...such help, huh...whatever..
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:43 PM   #46
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dude, almost everything that isnt from the US has a "D" port. its not that huge of a deal. there are wrxs over there with your super special "D" port. and im sure every V7-8 even non ra had the stamp.

who cares about the shape? the flow and size are the important things

and youre using a tape measure, just thought id let you know that.

youre also taking this "large port" lable to seriously.

it came from the difference between the heads on version 7s.

an ej20g port is an ej20g port. some of them were HAND ported from the factory, that is all, it not some mysterious "big port"
shape. woohooo, not. im done, post back if you like, threads dead

Last edited by Hurley 2.5 WRS; 09-20-2006 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:33 PM   #47
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I dont have measurements of the real "big port" jdm spec c heads but I do believe they are larger then my Ver 6 heads. Your RS heads are def from a differrent casting then the JDM heads, you are missing 4mm of port. Once I get home I will take some more pics of my heads with something that will be easy to ID the size. It looks like you got Hurley all fired up but i want to get to the bottom of this once and for all
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:57 AM   #48
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Fuji K,
I have stopped participating because as far as I am concerned this has become a bunch of mental masturbation. Xephyr has shown that you can make BIG power on the DOHC Ej25 '98 heads. He put down over 400whp on a very conservative dyno. The heads were unported and used stock cams and valves. The only changes to them were upgraded springs. And because they are from very similar castings to the Ej20K/EJ20H/EJ20R heads, it's very easy to tap out the fittings for the turbo oil and coolant stuff that is lacking on them from the factory. They are cast into them (which is a tell that they are based upon a turbo head) and just haven't been drilled out and tapped. Beyond that, I don't need to know anything else about it.

I did recieve 2 longblocks last night. One is an Ej20G from '96 and the other is an Ej20K from '97. I will be measuring them and taking pictures of them for my own database of information. The '96 has HLA's under buckets, like the '96 USDM Ej25s. The '97 I expect to be nearly identical to the '97-99 DOHC Ej25's. But it still doesn't "proove" anything. I am still unsure what you are trying to proove in this thread and stand by my assessment that it's a bunch of irrelevant mental masturbation. At this rate, I will have my engine rebuilt from the ground up, and installed in my car while you are still arguing on the intraweb about irrelevant details...
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Fuji K,
I have stopped participating because as far as I am concerned this has become a bunch of mental masturbation. Xephyr has shown that you can make BIG power on the DOHC Ej25 '98 heads. He put down over 400whp on a very conservative dyno. The heads were unported and used stock cams and valves. The only changes to them were upgraded springs. And because they are from very similar castings to the Ej20K/EJ20H/EJ20R heads, it's very easy to tap out the fittings for the turbo oil and coolant stuff that is lacking on them from the factory. They are cast into them (which is a tell that they are based upon a turbo head) and just haven't been drilled out and tapped. Beyond that, I don't need to know anything else about it.

I did recieve 2 longblocks last night. One is an Ej20G from '96 and the other is an Ej20K from '97. I will be measuring them and taking pictures of them for my own database of information. The '96 has HLA's under buckets, like the '96 USDM Ej25s. The '97 I expect to be nearly identical to the '97-99 DOHC Ej25's. But it still doesn't "proove" anything. I am still unsure what you are trying to proove in this thread and stand by my assessment that it's a bunch of irrelevant mental masturbation. At this rate, I will have my engine rebuilt from the ground up, and installed in my car while you are still arguing on the intraweb about irrelevant details...
I look forward to seeing some pictures if you're willing to share.

I was just very curious because of the port runner casting style, which was of a D-style runner. This just got me to think that the 2.5L DOHC could be watered down turbo heads. I've asked around which got a good bunch of answers to find out where these heads are based off of. I don't know if you guys paid attention to them because I didn't get much feedback from you guys about the D-style port runner castings until now.

Then of course comparing them to the NEW BIG PORTS to see where they stand and what things we're looking at.

Like..something I was looking getting was:
Yes, the BIG PORT heads and the 2.5L DOHC NA head share the D-style port castings, but the port inlet is not as tall due to being filled in to help increase air speed into the cylinder. The 2.5L DOHC NA head is slightly smaller in port runner. They are based on the EJ20R w/ same combustion chamber but smaller inlet like said above. This engine is also found on overseas 2.5L NA Subarus of the same year. These heads perform very well for what they are and can be greatly improved on with porting.

BUT REALLY I want this thread to be filled with info on all heads if possible so we can all compare/learn about each one whether new or old style heads.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:29 AM   #50
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1996 JDM Ej20G WRX sedan heads:

58.3mm wide and 48mm deep measured from the outer edge of the tongue. The splitter is deep down in the head and they are "D" shaped ports...
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