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Old 12-27-2005, 07:06 PM   #1
silverstreakwrx
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Default small 16g vs big 16g

Hi guys, i'm looking at the fp16g and noticed that they have as an option the big 16g turbine wheel which will flow 550 cfm as opposed to 510 cfm...i was wondering wut are the strengths and weaknesses of both....how much max power can each make, the small and the large and what about lag...is there a significant difference in lag time between the small and large 16g's. I'm looking to break 300 whp on my auto (all other issues are taken care of)...can the small do this?
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:23 PM   #2
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bump, also interested in the 16g. I think turbochargers.com has it for around 600 bucks.
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Old 12-27-2005, 08:24 PM   #3
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anyone??
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Old 12-27-2005, 08:32 PM   #4
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DB's super16g flows 585 cfm

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but for the 2 turbos your asking about spool time will be quiker for the small, and a little longer for the big. If you consider DB's Super16G it'll be a little more longer to spool up. But power will stay a bit stronger on the top with the later spooling turbos.

As for significance in lag time does depend on other mods but guesstimate would be around 200-300 RPM's later

thnx

MAX
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Old 12-27-2005, 10:33 PM   #5
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What Max said, but don't confuse a Big 16G with the Super 16G.

small 16G = 510 cfm @ 14.7 psi
big 16G = 550 cfm @ 14.7 psi
EVO 3 16G = 575 cfm @ 14.7 psi
DB Super 16G = 585 cfm @ 14.7 psi

You can have a VF34 make 300whp on a dyno, but will it run the numbers on the track, no. Food for thought.
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Old 12-27-2005, 10:52 PM   #6
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I spoke with FP abou this. They recommended the Evo3. The top end gains are (supposedly) substantial vs the lag increase. Note this was against their various 16Gs and 18G options.
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Old 12-27-2005, 11:50 PM   #7
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That is kinda the reason i nolonger want a super since its problably real close to a 18g and i definatly want more top end than the smallest 16g produces.

fyi Ive no experience with them otherwise a super might be bad***.
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Old 12-27-2005, 11:51 PM   #8
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so i'm assuming that the super16g will be slightly more laggy than the big 16g?
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Old 12-27-2005, 11:56 PM   #9
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Like the guy said above by a few hundred off.

Kinda drawing a start and finish only each 16g has makes it own differances. Ive heard both bad and good about the 18g mostly that its a track or highway turbo not a drag race turbo.
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:16 AM   #10
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Umm, if you wanted to drag I would go with something like a 20G or a Green, but a 18G would be better than a 16G at a drag race.
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:29 AM   #11
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yo wud the small 16g spool faster than vf34???? Actually how would all the fp 16g options compare to the vf34??...thas a good reference point for a daily driver IMO
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:35 AM   #12
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vf34 is smaller than the smallest 16G and a ball bearing turbo. The 16G's will all spool slower, but who do you know takes off in 4th gear starting at 2K rpm's without down shifting?
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Old 12-28-2005, 10:00 AM   #13
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18g will also loose it spool up in the top end and its top end will eventually give out on you.
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Old 12-28-2005, 10:49 AM   #14
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At what rpm does an 18G or even a Super16 lose out? I've seen a lot of graphs that show Turbo "X" pull hard until about 6500 and then drops off hard. When you seen those dyno plots blown up to 1600X1200 resolution, it looks catestrophic. In reality, your probably not losing that much.

If you shift at 6750, for example, you're 250rpm into a downward trend in HP. I'm not so sure that's worth getting a larger turbo.

I'm not trying to pick on your comments specifically, dingobite, just pointing out that this quest to hold boost to 7000rpm may be unreasonable for a lot of people. My car spends 100 times more time at 3000rpm than at 7000rpm.

If I remember correctly (and I may not) ideally peak HP should be at the RPM you shift (6750 for me) and peak TQ at the RPM you hit after shifting. Both should be as broad (flat) as possible.

If I find a turbo that gives me a really fat HP/TQ curve but falls flat at 6500rpm, I'll change my shift patterns rather than change turbos. Actually, for 250rpm, I probably wouldn't need to change the way I shift.

Here is a thread that shows a Deadbolt P&P'd 16G that shows good pull to 6500rpm. I would expect the Big16, Evo3, and Super16 to have enough to pull to redline. If not, perhaps there is something else holding you back (Intake, Exhaust, Injectors, Intercooler?).
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Old 12-28-2005, 01:16 PM   #15
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well i haven't been able to hit 300 whp in my auto yet and i have a 2.5 ltr and a super 16. I think if that is what you are shooting for with an auto you might start with an 18g and go from there. Not to say its impossible but just maybe easier since i have a lot of other supporting mods and haven't hit 300.
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Old 12-28-2005, 01:41 PM   #16
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what kind of tune do u have autowagon???
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:51 PM   #17
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could have swore i posted my numbers on nasioc too but i don't see the thread. you can find most of the info on clubwrx if you search 4eat +ej257 +16g #'s. My tune is on 91 octain and at about 5200 feet too on a mustang dyno. Its an sti short block with super 16g, perrin tmic, pe 800's, perrin fuel rails, perrin turbo inlet pipe, turboxs power pack 2 ignition amplifier, and full catless scoobysport exhaust at the time. Which is 2.5" exhaust with a really crappy uppipe. Since then i have replaced the ss stuff with a turboxs uppipe and cobb dp and added a borla header. But i'd probably be lucky to hit 250 whp with a new tune i'd wager.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:29 PM   #18
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You could be absolutly right about holding boost till redline ive heard the small 16g does this ive also heard alot about it being slow as in a 40t beating it and a few other model turbos.
18g i have no clue where it sits 2 people ive listened to one here one local that says a 18g has its good and bad sides which the only people that love the 18g are the ones that keep it the ones that dont always say its slow some reason.

Ive read all four of the 16g hold boost till redline both with peoples logs and word of mouth 'just for me in my case im not sure id want a 4 of 4' if i chose which turbo. I dont want to be slowest of the 4.
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Old 12-28-2005, 06:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autowagon
But i'd probably be lucky to hit 250 whp with a new tune i'd wager.
I know you're higher up than me.. but I was able to run a 12.674@108.01 with the DB 16g and very similar mods.. this was also on a crappy 93 octane tune.
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:41 PM   #20
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Yeah man you are at 5200 and on a 91 tune. Im sure that could rob a good bit of power.
I have a super 16, but i burnt the clutch up in a couple of days once i got it, then broke the tranny when i replaced the clutch.
I am going to shotpeen some RA's and then see what we got.

But needless to say, that thing pulls hard as crap.
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Old 12-28-2005, 10:23 PM   #21
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...my db 16g on my '02 was GREAT....it hit hard and pulled hard and made great power on 93+ octane.

The ONLY time I had any lag to speak of was if I did something like pulling a u turn in 2nd gear.
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:02 PM   #22
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BUT CAN THE SMALL 16G WITH PORTING REACH 300 WHP????? I know the vf34 can come quite close with an aggressive tune but the small 16g flows a lot more air/cfm
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstreakwrx
BUT CAN THE SMALL 16G WITH PORTING REACH 300 WHP????? I know the vf34 can come quite close with an aggressive tune but the small 16g flows a lot more air/cfm

Save yourself some trouble and get a Ej5-40T flows harder and faster than a 16G...you can easily reach 300whp with that...with proper mods of course
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:46 PM   #24
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u mean to say that the ej5-40t spools faster?
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstreakwrx
u mean to say that the ej5-40t spools faster?

It does
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