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Old 01-09-2006, 06:27 PM   #1
GregBolby
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Default Need help tuners, diagnose my dyno pull and a/f





Ok im running right at 6psi on this pull this was done in 3rd gear....
this is on a my00 2.5rs-t
anyways, the first pull i did i put down 167whp and 189wtq on a mustang dyno at 5.8psi, wiht a crappy tune, and j&s safeguard pulling alot of timing, we got the fueling pretty close, which i think is still no rich enough,,,,we made 16 pulls back to back changing numbers in emanage, power kept dropping, anyways we went from 167whp to 133whp, with a better tune? oh also they thought i had a fmic, so by the last run the intercooler was so hot you could have cooked an egg on it, i mpretty sure thats where alot of the power was lost , but can you tell me where i need to change somethings?....peak wtq was at 2700

thanks

Greg
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:29 PM   #2
GregBolby
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forgot to add, they didnt put a fan on the intercooler until the last 2 runs, but it didnt help at all the heat had already soaked in to the topmount
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:18 PM   #3
rjrutzky
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Yikes! Hire a tuner! Stat!
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:00 PM   #4
bboy
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Ummmm.... there is way too much to try and help you in the Proven Power thread. I'd say you need to find someone who knows a great deal more about tuning. There's nothing pretty about your graphs.
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:27 PM   #5
Illusive
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holy leanness batman.....

are you getting blowby already?

12's and even 13s in boost is not acceptable. you need to be high 11's at max.
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:59 PM   #6
Drac9
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That tune is very, very bad. Here's any easy way to get a/f ratio in line, however. YOu take what you have (13.6) divide it by what you want (11.5) and you get 1.18. Now multiply 1.18 by the value you have for that load cell in your emanage fuel map, this is your new value. Look at your logs and do this for each load cell. This should bring your fuel curve in line. Then you can mess with timing. You did datalog the runs, right? If the shop that owns this dyno did any tuning on your car you need to find a new tuner before your engine is melted down.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:16 PM   #7
joey1313
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Motor about to fall down and go boom....find a tuner in a hurry.
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:50 AM   #8
GregBolby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac9
That tune is very, very bad. Here's any easy way to get a/f ratio in line, however. YOu take what you have (13.6) divide it by what you want (11.5) and you get 1.18. Now multiply 1.18 by the value you have for that load cell in your emanage fuel map, this is your new value. Look at your logs and do this for each load cell. This should bring your fuel curve in line. Then you can mess with timing. You did datalog the runs, right? If the shop that owns this dyno did any tuning on your car you need to find a new tuner before your engine is melted down.

i am adding fuel ontop of the stock ecu not full ems ,,,Drac9 are u familier with emanage? so i add to the total fuel or just the cells?

G
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:51 AM   #9
alcrudojr #00
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My humble opinion is that is way to lean. It's it way to see the timing log?
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:09 AM   #10
Drac9
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You should be tuning total fuel first then tuning individual cells. It works similar to the Link Plus. On that you tune master to get a decent idle, etc then you then you tune rows, then fine tune individual cells. I would recommend finder a tuner in your area whom is familiar with emanage quickly. If not you WILL be buying a new engine. I also recommend you don't drive this car until you do.
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:30 AM   #11
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I don't think 13:1 is a good AF ratio when you're in boost on an engine built for natural aspiration. You need to add fuel below 4800rpm.

Is that possibly an closed to open loop transition? You're going to have a hell of a time tuning that out with nothing more than a piggyback fuel controller. Is there any reflash available for your car? I'd also say lowering base timing in high load columns on the ECU would be a good idea, rather than hoping the J&S pulls timing before you get too much knock.

I'd move this to the NA performance technical forum, though. Probably more help there.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:29 PM   #12
CMills
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Greg I find it kind of funny how you are bashing the Show Zone, but if I remember correctly, wasn't it you that tuned you own car? All we did was supply you with the laptop and offer suggestions on how to stop your car from knocking. Also we told you we were not familar with E-manage and that you would have to do the tuning yourself. Why don't you post the video you took and lets see who is in the car behind the laptop , it wasn't me so it must of been you(I will even host it for you). So please don't post half truths. Also with the fan issue having the fan on the radiator while you were trying to get your ARF in control was more important than putting the fan on your intercooler at the time. This is why we let your car sit and cool off before your last two pulls and then we put the fan on your intercooler, to see what kind of benefits came from your tune. And in closing I don't think you payed for 4 hours of dyno time, you only paid for two.


Here are your air fuel on your first pull when you brought in (knocking)




Here is your HP/T

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Old 01-10-2006, 01:01 PM   #13
GregBolby
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im not bashing show zone, at all, i was going to go back anyways...i didn't have a problem with yall at all!! don't be so defensive if you didn't do anything wrong. I was just getting some other opinions b/c my car still isn't running that great. I never said anything bad about show zone. I was typing into the laptop exactly what you told me to do. Yes we did get rid of the knock..somewhat.. but to lose 30 hp by the end of the day didn't seem right so i was getting a second opinion.. yeah i paid for two hours..thanks. I'm not trying to bash anyone. It's my car and i felt like i needed to see what others thought about the tune.
don't take it so personal.

Greg
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:02 PM   #14
wrex03
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All I can say is stay out of boost and find someone that can share a map, or guide you in your efforts to tune.
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:27 PM   #15
CMills
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http://www.evolutionse.com/forums/sh...9887#post19887

Sounds like bashing to me... Greg I have no problem with you or trying to help you, but this sounds like bashing to me..
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:40 PM   #16
rjrutzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMills
http://www.evolutionse.com/forums/sh...9887#post19887

Sounds like bashing to me... Greg I have no problem with you or trying to help you, but this sounds like bashing to me..
Seems like you guys deserve a bashing for if nothing else making a full pull with afrs and knocking like that. How could any shop let a car leave like that, I don't care if it is self tuned. That's horrible. Funny thing is that noboby would have known the shop's name if you wouldn't have posted those charts.
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:51 PM   #17
jdchmiel
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another thing I thought of ( since you seem to be away from AIM right now)
is how do you have your emanage set up? Do you still have it the ****ty greddy way of TPS sensor to TPS input of emanage so you are tuning by TPS position or did you switch to a MAP sensor to TPS input in order to tune load vs RPM ??
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:59 PM   #18
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Greg, first off edit any posts that might have any type of 'bashing' on the dyno place. They rock for letting you use them, especially 4 hours and only paying for 2.

I'm going to take this to AIM, but I would like you to take a look at my maps for a bit then I'll give you my number to call me. My fuel ratios are 15.2 at idle, low 14's off boost during cruise 12's down to 10.8 while on boost. I can probably get more power going leaner, but when it's 120 degrees outside a conservative tune will allow me to run track days even in the heat. Of course, I'm still able to spin the tires if I go into 2nd a little too hard...

Chad
93 ej20g/2.2/2.5/1.8 etc..
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