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Old 01-11-2006, 12:08 AM   #1
2-quick4u
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Default Denatured Alcohol versus Methanol Questions:

Denatured Alcohol vs. Methanol Injection:

Which one is better to develop your timing map on?

Is there any difference in performance and/or tuning between the two?

If so, which one allows for more aggressive timing?

Was thinking of having the car tuned for worst case scenario and run the other better stuff when convenient.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:20 AM   #2
2-quick4u
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FYI, denatured has an octane rating of 129 while methanol is 123 octane. So maybe I should tune for Methanol and then I can always run denatured alcohol when needed....
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:41 AM   #3
Davenow
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actually methanol has a higher octane from everything I have ever read.
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:38 AM   #4
rac
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I would of thought that methanol would be slightly better as well but not by much.

I'm using 10% denatured ethanol(meths) mixed with pump gas and have found 5deg's more timing eveywere to be very safe and quiet.
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Old 01-11-2006, 03:34 AM   #5
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no way in hell are you able to run 5 deg more timing everywhere on 10% METHANOL.
I ran that much in my car (as well as several others in the nesic area) and no way were we getting anywhere near that much more timing,

What are you running for knock detection?

You barely get 5 deg timing from direct methanol injection. No way in hell you are getting it from a less than 1 full octane point bump. (which is all a 10% meth mixture will yeild)
Not safely anyway
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:51 AM   #6
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According to Doug at TopSpeed, he can tune more out of Meth.

The only downside to me locally when I got my SMC kit was the availabilityof Meth. I can get Alcohol at every Lowes and Home depot.

Needless to say, we tuned my car with Alchy.

UK
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:12 PM   #7
rac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
no way in hell are you able to run 5 deg more timing everywhere on 10% METHANOL.
I ran that much in my car (as well as several others in the nesic area) and no way were we getting anywhere near that much more timing,

What are you running for knock detection?

You barely get 5 deg timing from direct methanol injection. No way in hell you are getting it from a less than 1 full octane point bump. (which is all a 10% meth mixture will yeild)
Not safely anyway
Sorry to say it but you are wrong.

In my case i have gained an extra 5deg on average going from 95ron to 95ron + 10%meths. Below 5K i've got 5.5deg more and above 5.5k there's 4.5deg more.
Using a small amp and knock sensor.
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:12 AM   #8
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I have no experience with alky injection in a Subaru, but I run a kit on my Evo.

I prefer meth over denatured alcohol, for the plain fact that meth is around $3.50 a gallon, where as denatured alcohol from Loew's is around $12.50 or so a gallon. Assuming you have access to methanol (most speed shops and drag strips sell it), this is probably the way to go. You can tune just as aggressively with meth as you can with denatured alcohol.
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:56 AM   #9
hotrod
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In theory the methanol is capable of slightly higher performance, as it has a higher oxygen ratio, higher cooling power, and about the same octane.

In tests run on aircraft engines the difference was not significant. Ethanol and methanol were interchangable for the WWII fighter aircraft.

My experience is that the same goes for our engines, but the economics of methanol are better, (about @2.25/gal from racing fuel suppliers), but it does have more issues with materials compatibility (ie corrosion). The Aquamist system is not compatible with ethanol but is designed for methanol. I am not sure how the Snow Performance and other suppliers are regarding compatiblity with both alcohols.

Larry
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Old 01-13-2006, 10:26 AM   #10
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I run 100 percent meth with my alkycontrol kit. Which is Meth safe....but i still flush it out for the winter months or during prolonged times when not in use. When we tuned my car, we really didn't try to add much timing. Mostly more boost and obviously remove about 20% of the fuel due to the Meth we were spraying.
In regards to teh 5 deg. timing issue. It could really depend on how conservative his timing map was when he started tuning it.
As far as tuning for Meth don't forget that Meth has a afr of roughly 6.0:1.
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:29 PM   #11
2-quick4u
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitywrx
When we tuned my car, we really didn't try to add much timing. Mostly more boost and obviously remove about 20% of the fuel due to the Meth we were spraying.
So if you are removing about 20% of the fuel, what % percentage of Methanol are you adding?
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