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Old 01-11-2006, 11:39 AM   #1
Legacy777
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Default Gas analyzer vs wideband tuning

Just curious what others have to say about this, or if they know of any tuners using this method.
http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:50 AM   #2
e28fixer
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THAT is very interesting reading. I'll be watching this closely to see what others say. How did you happen to come across this?

Scott
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Old 01-11-2006, 06:59 PM   #3
Legacy777
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I was searching for opinions/reviews on wideband O2 sensors, and stumbled across it.

I emailed the guy to see what his opinions whether those issues hold true for automotive applications as well as motorcycle, and this is what he said:

"Yep - all same issues.
I don't profess to know "all" about "everything" - but, "tune to an a/f
ratio" gets less optimum results that "tune to Best Power" - and then
look at gas info.
I can't see how one, with any notable tuning experience and who doesn't
"live in a box", could come to any other conclusion...........

I see the Wideband deal as a concept promoted by those who have embraced
the science of a perfect system (and engines aren't) to heart and
proclaim it's benefits.
Then, there's the other guys who know tuning... who have progressed.

And that's not to think it's only hobbiests and marketers... I once had
a younger engineer from one of the big 3 who insisted that o2 was
perfect for af ratio measurements and had never actually measured air
and fuel inflow vs. o2 values..... He had an engine that ran at 17 and
18 to one..... but I think that he had the ign timing so far retarded,
it left a lot of o2......."


I'm an engineer in the natural gas pipeline transmission industry. We have high pressure fuel injection retrofit systems that are installed on our large bore 10 cyl (2000-5000hp) 2-stroke engines that compress the gas. When they install the high pressure fuel injection they map the engine using a similar gas analyzer to optimize emissions.

I spoke with one of the engineers that sells the package and showed him that page. He said that both HC & O2 are probably good indicators of combustion. He sort of questioned whether everything on the page was correct. I am still curious if anyone in the automotive industry uses something like this for tuning.

BTW, I ended up getting a Zeitronix ZT-2 wideband. Everything I was reading was pretty positive and the cost was good.

Josh
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Old 01-11-2006, 10:41 PM   #4
e28fixer
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You beat me to the email. He really sounds like he knows his stuff. I've got a feeling he could sell this product to tuners and self-tuners if he brought it to market. All he'd have to do is post up some dyno comparisons along with MPG results and keep the price competitive. Until then I'll probably end up doing what you have. I'm following the developments at openecu.org and plan to do my own tuning. Can you tell me where you bought your wideband and what it ran?

Scott
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:06 PM   #5
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The reason nobody else uses 4-gas analyzers for tuning is because they're so slow (relative to an A/F sensor).
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:02 PM   #6
Legacy777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e28fixer
Can you tell me where you bought your wideband and what it ran?

Scott
Bought it here
http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm

I just got the Sensor and not the display. It was $279 + shipping.
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:07 PM   #7
Legacy777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
The reason nobody else uses 4-gas analyzers for tuning is because they're so slow (relative to an A/F sensor).
Jon, are you meaning they're slow in measuring, slow in reacting to a change...or something else???
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
The reason nobody else uses 4-gas analyzers for tuning is because they're so slow (relative to an A/F sensor).
And the cost on most of the portable ones I saw on google were $1700 for the cheapest one to $2400+.

TMS
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:31 PM   #9
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If we are talking that kind of money, I'd rather have one of these and measure power output directly:

http://www.optrand.com/PSIp.htm
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Old 01-12-2006, 07:22 PM   #10
Legacy777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboy
If we are talking that kind of money, I'd rather have one of these and measure power output directly:

http://www.optrand.com/PSIp.htm
Now that is sweet!!
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:04 AM   #11
TheMadScientist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboy
If we are talking that kind of money, I'd rather have one of these and measure power output directly:

http://www.optrand.com/PSIp.htm
Saab all ready uses a version of that from the factory. It is not optical though, it uses ion gap sensing.

TMS
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