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Old 01-13-2006, 03:47 PM   #1
wrxproject
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Default safe to run dp, up, and cbe without tuning?

i was curious to know if its safe to run a uppipe, downpipe, and catback exhaust without running a cobb ap or any kind of tuning. any issues?
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:41 PM   #2
Paulie V
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What year car do you have? I've heard that having a DP or TBE without EM could make the CL/OL issue worse on '04/'05 cars.
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Old 01-13-2006, 10:21 PM   #3
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As long as you stick with the stock boost mapping and you don't get any boost oscillation/spiking with the new exhaust components, things should be fine.

If you find yourself getting boost spikes, oscillation, or surging, the only way you're likely to get rid of it is a retune... but you should be fine. If you decide to increase the boost at all, you will get lean areas in the midrange RPM and suffer some pretty serious knock... so whenever you go that way, it's worth getting real engine management.

/Andrew
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Old 01-14-2006, 01:50 AM   #4
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so i should probably invest in a boost guage to monitor boost then. thanks for the info. im curious to know if anyone has come across any issues with a helix catless uppipe, downpipe, and greddy evo2 catback.
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Old 01-14-2006, 02:32 AM   #5
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It all depends on what year your WRX is. If you have an 02/03, your car should be fine without engine management with those mods (from what I've read.) If you have an 04+ WRX, the OL/CL delay is known is cause problems, but this of course can be fixed with most engine management systems. Having said this, I don't think it's a good idea to run those mods without EM on an 04+.

There's a lot of information floating around the boards about the OL/CL delay if you're interested in reading more.
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Old 01-14-2006, 11:03 AM   #6
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Yeah, the 02/03 vs. 04/05 point is a good one. I have little experience with 04/05s, but have read the horror stories.
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Old 01-14-2006, 12:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG
It all depends on what year your WRX is. If you have an 02/03, your car should be fine without engine management with those mods (from what I've read.) If you have an 04+ WRX, the OL/CL delay is known is cause problems, but this of course can be fixed with most engine management systems. Having said this, I don't think it's a good idea to run those mods without EM on an 04+.

There's a lot of information floating around the boards about the OL/CL delay if you're interested in reading more.
Plus the obvious fact that EM will give you the full benefit of the mods, which the stock mapping won't. Right now he's got a louder car that's just a little more powerful than a stocker.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:04 AM   #8
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Simple answer... if it's an 02-03 WRX it'll be ok (even though you would benefit from EM with that as well)... if it's an 04+ WRX then NO. You will have issues with it if you install those parts without EM. Anyone with an 04+ WRX should be looking at EM before anything else in terms of boltons.
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Old 01-16-2006, 08:40 PM   #9
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ive read those horror stories, too but tuners say otherwise. anyone with a 04-05 running these mods without tuning?
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Old 01-16-2006, 08:58 PM   #10
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no up but i'm running HKS TBE with no issues for the last 6 months... I have boost, oil pressure and EGT guauges which I monitor pretty closely... no boost spiking (never boost above 15psi mostly around 14.6 - 14.9) no surging or any other issues...
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Old 01-16-2006, 09:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_2004
no up but i'm running HKS TBE with no issues for the last 6 months... I have boost, oil pressure and EGT guauges which I monitor pretty closely... no boost spiking (never boost above 15psi mostly around 14.6 - 14.9) no surging or any other issues...
But what is your IAM? I have not seen a 04+ with exhaust and no EM with an IAM in the teens...
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:34 PM   #12
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ill add:
if you leave the boost alone it will be fine ie no 3.16 mod

however it will exhibit something i like to call LSLP - louder stock like power
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
But what is your IAM? I have not seen a 04+ with exhaust and no EM with an IAM in the teens...

/\ exactly. Just becuase you're spiking doesn't mean you're fine. I would look into the free tari logger and get your IAM. . . (or DAM).
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Old 01-18-2006, 08:55 AM   #14
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k, take it easy guys, im still learning, what is the OL/CL delay. couldnt find anything on the search. has something to do with emissions right?
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Old 01-18-2006, 01:23 PM   #15
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If you couldn't find anything on OL/CL after a search, you need to look again. I've PERSONALLY defined it at least twice in the last 2 weeks.

Yes, its emissions related.
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Old 01-18-2006, 04:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG
It all depends on what year your WRX is. If you have an 02/03, your car should be fine without engine management with those mods (from what I've read.) If you have an 04+ WRX, the OL/CL delay is known is cause problems, but this of course can be fixed with most engine management systems. Having said this, I don't think it's a good idea to run those mods without EM on an 04+.

There's a lot of information floating around the boards about the OL/CL delay if you're interested in reading more.
Everyone has a different answer for this question... get gauges to monitor everything. Every car is different. Enjoy !
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richde
Plus the obvious fact that EM will give you the full benefit of the mods, which the stock mapping won't. Right now he's got a louder car that's just a little more powerful than a stocker.
Yeah, if 20-30 whp is only a "little" more powerful...
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:11 PM   #18
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whats ol/cl??
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Old 01-18-2006, 09:40 PM   #19
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...the real issue is DET durring the delay period due to higher than expected boost.

THAT is what is the killer
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:14 PM   #20
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I just did a search to be sure. Keyword="ol/cl" and I used my handle as I know I have posted correct information. "Showing results 1 to 25 of 45" I would say to try again.
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
I just did a search to be sure. Keyword="ol/cl" and I used my handle as I know I have posted correct information. "Showing results 1 to 25 of 45" I would say to try again.

...try what again????
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Old 01-19-2006, 02:48 AM   #22
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Ive been running a tbe on my 04 for almost a year now with no problems. I do have a utec but can't always run stage 2 due to our crappy gas up here in AK.
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Old 01-19-2006, 10:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psylas
Ive been running a tbe on my 04 for almost a year now with no problems. I do have a utec but can't always run stage 2 due to our crappy gas up here in AK.

....water/alcohol injection is your bestest friend
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
....water/alcohol injection is your bestest friend

Werd we had a huge gb on the smc kit on akic. I was broke at the time torco is my friend now.
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Old 01-20-2006, 01:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxproject
ive read those horror stories, too but tuners say otherwise. anyone with a 04-05 running these mods without tuning?
I have an 05. I just installed an UP/TBE this past weekend. When I finished the install I hooked the battery back up, started it it up and listenend and felt around for leaks at each joint. I didn't find any so I went on my merry way and took it for a test drive. First impressions were great. Instant throttle response and I noticed more low and high-end pull. A couple of days went by and the car was running fine. It definitely felt more powerful.

Then out of nowhere (within the last 2 days) the power felt near stock again, maybe even slightly less because now I could also feel boost spikes (I'm assuming this is what it was because I felt lessened power with small bursts of more power). Not to mention the wastegate flutter sound become louder and more apparent under partial throttle response conditions. I could feel noticable horse power loss. I'm glad I came across this thread and your comments definitely point to tuning. Do all of these symptons seem normal for someone in need of tuning? I even reset my ECU again last night thinking it might make a difference but unfortunately it did not.

I've been thinking of getting the Cobb AP so I could run a Stage 2 map but since I've had the car for such a short time I've been trying to pace myself financially with mods. However, you guys are the experts. Does it sound like I need tuning right away and can I damage my car running this way? If so, I'll purchase some form of EM right away.

Thanks in advance for your response and comments.
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