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Old 05-11-2001, 08:21 PM   #1
Skirvdawg
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Post Summer's here, so are the bikes (long and kinda rantish)

While you're driving your SUBARU (to keep on topic), keep in mind that with warmer often comes the folks on bicycles. As someone who loves to ride to work (no, I don't wear the cutesy little shorts and have my gut sticking out of a painted on shirt) and someone who is a former bike messenger, I'd like to share a few thoughts that hopefully at least one of you will keep in mind while you're driving.

Two basic things that are the bane of my cycling existance...cars passing me and then making a right turn right in front of me and cars turning onto my street from a sidestreet right in front of me. Most people don't realize that some people on bikes are traveling a lot faster than drivers think they are. My typical speed on relatively flat, smooth pavement without much wind is around 20mph, and that's if I'm not really cranking on it. I'm sure you can see how a driver can think that a cyclist is just tootin' along looking at the grass grow, and think he has loads of time to make a turn, but this is often not the case.

Please, oh please don't honk your horn, yell, or the worst, throw anything at cyclists. Some folks are kinda timid and sudden noises send them hurtling butt over bars. If you see me riding, do whatever you want, 'cuz I'm hardcore on my bike and listen to headphones.

Finally, I feel stupid for mentioning this, but I have met relatively educated people who had no idea that bikes have as much rights to the road as cars. It's a state by state thing, but I have never been in a state where this was not the case. Bikes are regulated by the motor vehicle laws in most states. I should know; I got a ticket for running a red light.

Peace be with you.
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Old 05-11-2001, 08:30 PM   #2
Ginseng
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Skirv,
I'll keep my eyes open for you the next time I'm out on America's Cup.
Wilkey
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Old 05-11-2001, 08:50 PM   #3
pooreman
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dont ride in memphis, man people suck in this town. they think its a contest to either hit you with the mirrors or just run your ass over. i used to bike alot more back in indiana, but aftera couple of times out down here i'd had enough.

a friend back in indy got hit by a dick throwing a half full can out the window. sometimes you just wish there was a law to wupass on folks that are just thining the gene pool.

take it easy.
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Old 05-11-2001, 09:25 PM   #4
remarcable
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I like to run interference for cyclists.

Most of the time they see a Subaru with lights and stuff on it they wave back at me.

I used to bike everywhere before I got my subaru because my 87 sable wasn't reliable enough for short distances.

Now I have really bad allergies and a bad back (from a wipeout trying to jump a dumpster off a ledge riding off the roof of a Baskin Robbins on my Cannondale... I landed it but then some idiot in an explorer ran the stopsign and I ended up going into a forced slide into/under the exploder. It was cool. Painful though.)

Cyclists get better treatment from me that other drivers on the road. I'll slow down, pass with a wide margin, keep crazies away from them, wave, etc.

I've even handed cyclists water before (if for some reason I had an unopened thing of bottled water in my front seat).


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Old 05-11-2001, 11:16 PM   #5
nmyeti
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I used to work at a high end bike shop in Kansas City, and we saw too many of our customers each year hit or run off the road by careless drivers. Please pay attention out there. The life you save may be mine. I'll be the guy on the Litespeed mountain bike with the blue fork that almost matches my WRX.

-Nathan
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Old 05-11-2001, 11:33 PM   #6
KeithRS
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I hope that gas goes up to $3 (or more) per gallon so people will actually start to recognize cycling as something a grown adult actually wants to do... Here in Jacksonville, it is really bad (but getting better) with no bike lanes/shoulders, kids yelling out of their hondaz as they buzz by, etc. But I still ride.

I think people have been acting a little more cool-headed lately, but there still are a lot of morons out there (both drivers and cyclists).


nmyeti- I wish SID blue was closer to BRP...
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Old 05-11-2001, 11:37 PM   #7
Nordstone
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I'm not too up-to-date with current laws but as someone else stated, it differs from state to state. In some states, if you hit a bicyclist or pedestrian, it doesn't matter what they were doing, you are screwed. So, it good to be twice as careful when one of them is present. Not to mention how badly you'd feel if you killed or maimed someone because you weren't being extra careful.
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Old 05-11-2001, 11:56 PM   #8
Digital_Boy
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Skirv,

I do watch out for bicyclists, since I ocasionally ride my bike to and fro, but WHAT'S UP with the idjits who ride just to the left, or right on the white line in the bike lane?!?!?? Or, even worse, the idjits who ride 2 abreast... If you're governed by the same set of traffic laws as I am, get yer asses in single file. That's pretty damned annoying.
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Old 05-12-2001, 12:22 AM   #9
znep
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Some of them are just idiots. Idiot cyclists, idiot drivers. There are too many idiots in the world.

More often, however, there is a reason. Look a bit more closely. Is there road debris in the bike lane? Are there parked cars, forcing the cyclist out to the left to avoid being hit by carelessly opened car doors?

In all to many places, bike lanes are poorly or dangerously designed, and blindly following them is not best for cyclists or for traffic that interacts with cyclists.

As for riding two abrest... in some situations, in some localities it is legal. If there is not sufficient room for motor vehicles to pass in the same lane with cyclists riding single file, then doubling up does not make it harder to pass and significantly reduces the drivers who think "oh, I can squeeze by" even when there isn't enough room.
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Old 05-12-2001, 12:32 AM   #10
nmyeti
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KeithRS,
I am sitting here looking at my new litespeed tanisi and thinking the same thing. I wish that Sid race was WR-blue...

Its been an awesome week for me, but the story starts over a month ago.

I live on the second floor of an apt complex, and up until about a month ago I stored my MTBs out on the balcony. Thinking no one can see them from the ground, and I doubt anyone is going to climb up and steal them. WRONG! Someone climbed up and stole my Yeti arc. This bike was just trick. I built it when I worked at the bike shop. All the parts were spec to what I wanted and I hand built the wheel set. The bike was fast, light and stable. Anyway, I was lucky as I have insurance, and I had a full retail receipt for replacement purposes. The insurance cut me a check, and I got to go bike shopping.

I built a Litespeed tanisi with Mavic crossmax UST wheels, SID race fork, king headset and everything else XTR. Sweet bike, rides like a dream.

So on Tuesday my bike arrives via UPS, and on Friday I get my new WRX.

Now I have to call the IMBA and get my yak roof rack for the WRX as it is free of charge to IMBA members.

If you guys are bikers and have not joined the IMBA I would really recommend joining now. There are 3 main benefits to Subaru lovers. 1. After 6 months you are part of Subaru's VIP program, and are entitled to 2 cars a year at dealer invoice. 2. With the purchase or lease of a new Subaru, you will receive a new Yakima roof rack with two copperhead bike mounts. 3. With the purchase or lease of a new Subaru you receive a free three-year 45,000 mile added security maintenance contract

Well worth the price of the membership if you ask me.

-Nathan
02 WRX (got it today!)
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Old 05-12-2001, 12:53 AM   #11
Ken-gv
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Thanks for the good topic, if a few drivers and bike riders read these posts and understand each other a little more, it will be a better world, uh, sorry got a little carried away, it will be a better roading experience for all.

I ride a bike and drive a car, soon to be WRX Wagon, and since I ride I think I have a better understanding of what it is like for bike riders.

Here are a couple instances of bike - car interactions that I want to pass along.

Horn honking is one of the scariest things for me, something that always makes me jump and tense up for the hit. Horns mean 'danger, look out I am going to hit you', not 'beware of my car coming up behind you, I just want to alert you'. Please don't honk at bike riders.

Another thing for car drivers to keep in mind is that if there is a car-bike accident, the bicyclist is the one who is going to be creamed, not the car driver. The car will have some scratches, the bike will be close to totaled.

Riding along a line of parallel parked cars is an interesting experience also. The biker has to keep their attention tuned to the parked car's doors so they are not 'doored', a door opened up on them, sending them into the moving cars or opened so they run head-long into the door.

I have heard car driver's question why a bicyclist rides just to the left of the 'parallel parking painted markers' even when there are no cars parked or when the cars are parked intermittently. Like, why doesn't the bike rider sort of weave in and out of the parked cars (in the blank spaces), thereby being safer for everyone. It is my belief, and shared by my rider friends, that the rider is safer if he/she keeps a straight line, rather than weaving in and out of the blank spaces. This gives the car drivers a constant idea of where the bike is now and will be when they pass.

All of these instances are reasons I am very happy to live in a rural foothill area where I only ride my mountain bike on city streets to get to the dirt.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 05-12-2001, 06:00 AM   #12
Steve 2.5
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I used to love to ride my bike, but they changed all the roads around where I live to make them more car friendly and a lot less bicycle friendly.

That, plus all the people in cages yelling at me and throwing things at me kind of turned me away from cycling.
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Old 05-12-2001, 06:55 AM   #13
makua11b
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I ride too, and when I'm riding or driving I try to be aware of what's going on around me at all times. When I'm driving and I see bikes up ahead I'll toot my horn twice from way back just so they know a car is coming. When I'm riding and someone does that for me I really appreciate it and I'll go to a single file and move to the edge of the road. Why can't every rider be as courteous? There's only a few things more annoying then being on my favorite twisty road going 15mph behind 2 or 3 bikers riding abreast at a cool down speed with 20 cars backed behind them.
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Old 05-12-2001, 08:37 AM   #14
subymamma
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Ever been riding along in the street, and as you come alongside a car parked beside the street, they open their door just as you approach?
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Old 05-12-2001, 09:14 AM   #15
mms4ba
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Digital Boy:


Quote:
WHAT'S UP with the idjits who ride just to the left, or right on the white line in the bike lane?!?!?? Or, even worse, the idjits who ride 2 abreast... If you're governed by the same set of traffic laws as I am, get yer asses in single file. That's pretty damned annoying.
I guess I'm an idiot. Actually, you've probably seen me doing all of the above around SD. There's a couple of good reasons for riding on or just to the left of the white line: 1)more room to bail in case an inattentive driver does something stupid, 2)more visible, 3)if you've ever ridden a bike, you'd know that bike lanes aren't swept very well. Debris = flat tires. When the street dept stops sweeping all the crap from the driving lanes into the bike line, I'll use more of it, thanks.

Two-abreast: In case you didn't notice, bikes aren't as wide as cars. Even when riding double we rarely take up more than the bike lane or a little over. I'm sorry that it is SO annoying that you have to slow down and/or change lanes

Matt

p.s. I just skimmed the bicycle laws and I didn't see anything strictly prohibiting double riding, so I guess we can (correct me if I'm wrong).

Gotta go ride my bike to work! Have a nice day
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Old 05-12-2001, 09:16 AM   #16
gtguy
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As a cyclist and enthusiast driver, I feel the pain of both sides. The fact is, most drivers don't really WANT to threaten riders. They're just too stupid to realize that they are, because they're so accustomed to dealing with other cars. They aren't malicious. They just don't care.

It is incumbent upon cyclists to ride as if they are indeed traffic. No red light running, two abreast when conditions allow, etc. But as I told a motorist the other day, "Does being an annoyance call for the death penalty if you run someone down?"

I don't know if people realize that every time they get in their car, they can die. It's something to keep in mind, I rather think. I saw a woman jockeying a Lexus Land Cruiser clone around like it was an S2000. She had NO idea that she was being a hazard.

As a cyclist, I ride strong upon the road. This means I ride with a cognizance that I need my space, but also that cars need theirs. Curiously, and I think because I obey traffic laws and don't ride like a wank, I rarely get messed with by cars. I can't think of the last time it happened. Sometimes, people will come close because they aren't paying attention, and a blast of the jets (something about having a bicycle beside you, going 40 mph that sobers you up) takes care of that.

Ride safe, ride sane, and you'll be good to go. And drive aware. None of us are the only ones on the road. Thanks for reading.

Kevin
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Old 05-12-2001, 10:44 AM   #17
djerickd
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I almost hit a cyclist test driving a WRX! I wasn't paying attnetion because the damn salesman was talking his head off about "Feel that Power!"
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Old 05-12-2001, 03:37 PM   #18
HpiRally
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Dude I am with you on this one. I hate when you ride at night with lights and stuff, and the cars findit necesary to put their high beams on and blind the hell out of you. Or when you are moving along on this road and the cars decide that they have the right away when leaving the side road, and entering onto the main road you are traveling on. It gets me so mad. I ride a Road bike all the time, its all done up for racing with super small gearing, and once you lose your momentum its hard to get it going again with out getting out of the saddle and tugging hard. People need to realize that bikes have the same right as cars. Oh and you are not lone in getting a ticket. I shot one night downt he towns main street down the hill and between two cars waiting at a light, yes it was stupid, but it was fun. The cops didnt like it much tho. He said he clocked me at 48MPH in 30MPH, gave me a ticket and told me to smarten the hell up. Oh well, it was amusing at the least.

Joe

[This message has been edited by HpiRally (edited May 12, 2001).]
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Old 05-12-2001, 07:25 PM   #19
apeirce
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I'm sorry znep and mms4ba but there is no reason bikes should ride two abreast. Where I live there aren't many bike lanes and 9 times out of 10 when I round a corner and there are two guys in painted on shirts riding side by side, they give no respect to the people they share the road with. Where a pass would be safe for both parties if they were riding in single file they continue to ride side by side 20 mph under the speed limit and then flip you off for finally passing them. They command the same amount of respect they show for everyone else.

Yeah I like riding a bike every now and then, but the bicyclists need to play by the same rules that the cars do just like they expect the cars to treat them like they are another vehicle. I rarely see the spandex crew actually stop for a stop sign and in red lights, if there isn't any traffic they usually cut across "to make time".

I'm all for sharing the road. I ride a motorcycle and see many of the same things that bicycles do. But it is the "owning the road" attitude of some bicyclists that helps feed the backlash against them, this isn't the Tour de France and the roads aren't closed.

-Adam
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Old 05-12-2001, 08:52 PM   #20
Pipercub
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A few years ago there was a spot on 20/20 about bicycle road rage. They had one guy who admitted to carrying broken up porceline in his belt pouch and would toss it back at cars who tried to pass. If someone ever pulled that S with me he would be in the ER having the bike extracted from his ass.

Fortunatly where I commute there is a bike trail populated by well intentioned bikers who are polite for the most part. The road is a heavy commuter road with fast moving traffic and they don't pretend that they should be pedaling down it at 20mph two abreast. When coming up behind them I usually downshift rather than honking to let them know I am there and slow down before passing them so as not to give them the afterburner. The bikers have a fairly good relaionship with the commuters here but I have seen a few places where they are just asking for it.
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Old 05-13-2001, 01:45 AM   #21
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Skirvdawg,
I was in total agreement with you till you said "'cuz I'm hardcore on my bike and listen to headphones." That's a bad idea cause unless you have the music REAL low, you can't hear the important sounds (eg-cars coming up from behind, dogs barking as they chase towards you, etc) I would say it makes you an unattentive rider. Hope you're at least wearing a helmet. BTW, just back from a 75 mile ride. Great ride, but dang hot.
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Old 05-13-2001, 01:45 AM   #22
znep
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apierce: "there is never any reason for cyclists to ride two abreast"? Umh... that's a pretty strong statement that shows a lack of education about legal and safe use of the roads. Again, the "rules of the road" explicitly allow, in many localities, cyclists to ride two abrest when appropriate. And those rules were not made arbitrarily.

About as stupid as saying "all cars should be required to drive in single file". After all, if you want "the same rules of the road"... wouldn't that make sense?

Note that motorists are often very poor judges of how much room is "enough", and of how close to the edge of the road it is reasonable and safe for cylists to ride. If there are multiple lanes in each direction, and each lane is too narrow to safely allow a car to pass in the same lane, then riding two abrest does not make it any more difficult for a car to safely pass. If you have some problem changing lanes, that isn't the cyclist's fault.

In the case of only one lane in each direction, if the lane really is not wide enough to allow cars to safely pass in the same lane then again, riding two abrest does not slow you down any more than single file would (less, in fact, since you don't have to pass as long of a line of cyclists). Riding two abrest or taking the lane one abrest is both legal and recommended when necessary and helps prevent motorists from thinking they can squeeze by when there is oncoming traffic, then moving right over into the cyclist.

And again, dealing with other traffic is part of driving.

Your stereotpyping of "the spandex crowd" as you call them is completely inappropriate. Your complaints about some cyclists running stop signs, etc. are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Just because some drivers do boneheaded things (pull up beside me in the next lane on a road with 3 lanes in each direction and almost no traffic and start yelling at me to get off the road and threatening me is the example from tonight's ride) does not make all drivers idiots.

And I repeat: sure, many cyclists ride in stupid, unsafe, and inconsiderate ways. I can not judge the particulars of the situations you have experienced, but I can judge your unqualified claims that things are "never" appropriate. Remember though, there are a heck of a lot of drivers that are a danger to everyone on to road too. This isn't about idiot cyclists vs. idiot drives, it is about vehicle operators of all types operating their vehicles in illegal and unsafe ways.

The bottom line is that just because you may hop on a bike once in a while and ride around the block does not mean you understand the legalities or safety issues associated with cycling in traffic.
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Old 05-13-2001, 08:17 AM   #23
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Amen!
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Old 05-13-2001, 10:06 AM   #24
Motor City RS'
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I prefer to ride on the trail!
Get in the dirt-chicks dig scars!
"GT"
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Old 05-13-2001, 10:59 AM   #25
mms4ba
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Thanks znep!

Here's another reason for riding 2 abreast: if you have a pack of 50 riders (common in San Diego), what's going to be harder to pass: a single file long line of 50 riders, or a group that you can pass in half the distance, because they are 2 up?

Additionally, something you wouldn't understand: riding double forces motorists to take notice of us, and forces motorists to slow down change lanes and go around. This is important when it's you (with nothing but a thin piece of styrofoam on your head) vs. an impatient driver wrapped in 2 tons of steel. It's called safety.

Pipercub, while I agree with you that of course a cyclist throwing crap at motorists for no reason is wrong, that doesn't represent the majority of cyclists. In the groups I ride with, running red lights is frowned upon b/c we all know that people love to generalize. And for every instance you can give of cyclist rage, I can give you 10 instances where a motorist has hit a cyclist (twice myself), stopped the car and gotten out and beaten the cyclist (once myself), run the cyclist into a ditch (I stopped counting). Respect? Don't tell me about respect. Sometimes it seems that the mere sight of a cyclist minding their own business is enough to enrage motorists....
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