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Old 03-19-2008, 12:57 PM   #1351
DS1
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^^ with the Cusco front LSD you need to run a friction modifier or KAAZ or Cusco fluid because of the friction plates in the LSD. With that type of money in a front diff it's ashamed to run the cocktail and accelerate the wear on the plates.

I thought we had finally put this mess to bed, the cocktail is bad mechanically in your Subaru 5mt and even worse in your 6mt.

The fluids mixed together to create it all have their advantages but when combined they create a lubrication nightmare inside your 5mt.

Myself and Andrewtech probably do more gear boxes combined than any other Subaru performance shop in the country. We don't run this stuff for a reason.

If you do choose to run it just keep in mind that it breaks down faster (aka fluid changes every 7-10k miles) causes excessive wear on baulk rings (aka more expensive rebuilds) and will eventually cause bearing failure because of the viscosity differences in the different fluids.

If you have a grind in your transmission and you are running the proper fluid (75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S) then you have a mechanical issue. You need to have it repaired properly. If you continue to drive on it no matter how the fluid "makes it feel" you are just causing more damage.

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:11 PM   #1352
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What do you suggest for people that do have grinding issues that the cocktail fixes? Not everyone has the scratch to rebuilt their transmission.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:17 PM   #1353
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^^ I understand that, what I'm saying is the cocktail doesn't "fix" anything it just hides the underlying problem till it becomes catastrophic.

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:23 PM   #1354
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Uncle Scotty getting kickbacks from all the tranny failures

Didn't people used to put sand in their tranny to hide problems so they could sell the car?
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:49 PM   #1355
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Not sand, Saw dust... works like a charm until the transmission falls apart! Let's just say I once worked for some people that were less than honest.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:55 PM   #1356
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^^^
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:06 PM   #1357
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It does not grind. It shifts fine just like it always has. At low speed turns it makes some noise which I understand is supposed to be normal for a clutch type lsd. (according to Cusco and Kaaz). I tried the "cocktail" and the noise was almost undetectable. I switched back to a regular gl5 80w90 and it makes noise. I am not disputing whether the cocktail accelerates wear on any parts because I do not know enough to make an argument for or against it. I was just stating my results with it.

fwiw the gears and diff have about 55k on em, with only 6k with the cocktail.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:12 PM   #1358
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^^ the reason the noise went away is because the additives in the cocktail. If you add the friction modifier to standard gear oil you will get the same results.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:24 PM   #1359
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What friction modifier do you suggest. The kaaz or cusco oil is around 40 bucks for two quarts and they suggest it be changed every 5k for a daily driven car.

I would like to be able to keep what is already in it and just drain a bit and put whatever additive I need to.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:54 PM   #1360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS1 Motorsports View Post
^^ with the Cusco front LSD you need to run a friction modifier or KAAZ or Cusco fluid because of the friction plates in the LSD. With that type of money in a front diff it's ashamed to run the cocktail and accelerate the wear on the plates.

I thought we had finally put this mess to bed, the cocktail is bad mechanically in your Subaru 5mt and even worse in your 6mt.

The fluids mixed together to create it all have their advantages but when combined they create a lubrication nightmare inside your 5mt.

Myself and Andrewtech probably do more gear boxes combined than any other Subaru performance shop in the country. We don't run this stuff for a reason.

If you do choose to run it just keep in mind that it breaks down faster (aka fluid changes every 7-10k miles) causes excessive wear on baulk rings (aka more expensive rebuilds) and will eventually cause bearing failure because of the viscosity differences in the different fluids.

If you have a grind in your transmission and you are running the proper fluid (75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S) then you have a mechanical issue. You need to have it repaired properly. If you continue to drive on it no matter how the fluid "makes it feel" you are just causing more damage.

-Dylan @ DS1
So what do you recommend? You may have posted the answer earlier, if so I apologize for beating a dead horse.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:43 AM   #1361
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That's just a bad match... clutch type lsd up front? Yes you will need an LSD friction modifier, you can get it at your local autoparts store. Torco type-f LSD additive works quite nicely, it's what I use in my rear clutch-type lsd.

Here's the problem... That friction modifier is probably going to make your synchros slip A LOT more. I could be wrong as I've never tried it, and stranger things have happened, but logic would dictate that you transmission is not going to be very cooperative in regards to shifting with an LSD additive in there.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:28 PM   #1362
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Rickyh- You can get the Subaru LSD oil (same as KAAZ and Cusco) for a lot cheaper. If you can't find it at your local dealer PM me and I can set you up with some. The clutch style LSD's are meant more for race use than street use because of the excessive maintenance they require. You may run into a syncro issue because of the friction modifier needed for the clutch pack in the LSD (jhargis's post above). You may want to think about swapping it out for a Torsen style front diff for street use.

SteveNastoff- 75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S all work really well with no side effects.

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:31 PM   #1363
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Question.... I've been posting on my "home" forum as I've been collecting the items necessary.

Then (after I found everything), someone says to me "I thought that was only for trannies that were having problems"...

I have a stg 3, VF39 powered 06 WRX..... with absolutely ZERO transmission problems whatsoever. None.

I figured the USC would be a good upgrade, allow me to shift a little smoother, and possibly even provide a bit of protection.

Should I not use it???

Uncle Scotty... can you chime in here?? I'd appreciate it.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:45 PM   #1364
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Trust me you don't want scotty's opinion

Do not use the cocktail, read through this thread and you'll see why.

If you need something better for your trans use:

75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S

If you can't find any of these locally I can supply you with them.

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:56 PM   #1365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS1 Motorsports View Post
If you need something better for your trans use:

75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S

If you can't find any of these locally I can supply you with them.
How much for 3.5 liters of the Extras-S gear oil? picked up.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:22 PM   #1366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS1 Motorsports View Post
Trust me you don't want scotty's opinion

Do not use the cocktail, read through this thread and you'll see why.

If you need something better for your trans use:

75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S

If you can't find any of these locally I can supply you with them.

-Dylan @ DS1
I have been reading... and the more I read, the less interested I am

I started by hearing all these rave reviews.... but then as I read more.... Chocolate milk??? 15K miles?

Price isn't a consideration.... I just want the best protection... I can find pretty much anything around here.

Reccomendation?
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:34 PM   #1367
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Yeah, I think the cocktail is probably better left as a band-aid for transmissions exhibiting problems... It might be ok for those that have some sketchy synchros and they just want something to hold them over while they save up $ for synchro repair or a new trans.

I would try to stick with a single gear oil if possible, mixing things is generally not the recommended move. I'm running Torco RGO (non-synth gl-5) 80w90 and I quite like it... still working great after 3k so far. I would recommend sticking with a non-synth.

Not sure how the Extra-s works in a 5mt though, but it'd be worth a try if Dylan or anybody else can hook you up by the qt. instead of the ultra-$$$ 5 gallon bucket that Subaru distributes it in. I don't have a shop, so I really don't have a need for 5 gallons of gear oil, hence my lack of experience with it.

Bottom line: If the stuff can't even survive for more than 50% of the factory recommended change interval, then I don't trust it in my gearbox. Mind you, the factory recommended interval is generally pretty conservative... I'd venture to say that most manual transmissions on the road go for twice the factory recommended interval before a change, if they're lucky enough to get fresh gear oil during the life of the car at all.

Last edited by jhargis; 04-03-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:45 PM   #1368
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I've got just under 30K on the odometer... this is just regular maintenance, nothing else.

No problems, no grinding, no messy syncros.... tranny is 100% perfect.

I guess the valvoline is pretty easily attainable.. I'll see if I can find some Amsoil though.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:56 PM   #1369
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I just put in USC less than 1500 miles ago. It didn't notice much of a difference. Is it too early to change it out?
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:32 AM   #1370
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I ran OEM fluid from 0-30k miles, LubroMoly (Synthetic) 75W90 from 30K-60K, and Valvoline 75W90 (Synthetic) from 60k-63k (present). Frankly, I think a lot of this gear oil hullabaloo is in our heads. Not all, but a lot.

The LubroMoly was fantastic in weather under 85F, but when it got hotter it was almost too easy and every once in a while would slide effortlessly into 1st with a *clunk*. With a little throttle blip, getting into 1st at 5-10mph was no hassle. I could even shift into first and from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd without using the clutch with rev matching (I commute a lot and know exactly what speed matched idle engine speed in those gears). When I changed it out, there was about half the goop (metallic particulate) on the magnetic bolt as when I changed out the OEM fluid. So far the Valvoline is great, but I haven't driven in warm weather yet. And frankly, I never even had any complaints about the OEM fluid.

*shrug*
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:12 PM   #1371
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ninefourteener- Best protection is the Motul

wespott- Never too early to take it out, the sooner the better.

Asinine- It holds up well in the warm weather

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:46 PM   #1372
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So what I get from reading all this:

Take out Cocktail, add Valvoline 75w90w with a qt of Synchromesh?

That sounds right Dylan?

Last edited by 007WRX; 04-02-2008 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:27 PM   #1373
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No on the Syncromesh.

Just the straight Vavoline will do fine

-Dylan
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:28 PM   #1374
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Hmm ok. I sure do hate that 4th gear grind though :|
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:28 PM   #1375
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DS1 or anyone else,

What are your thoughts on the Castrol Hypoy C 80w-90 gear oil for our tranny/diff?

Any reason why I should/shouldn't be using it?

I just changed out mine the other day, so far it feels great.

~ REVNU
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