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Old 01-21-2006, 02:53 AM   #1
Javier
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Default S3L Owners, need your input!

I'm having some issues with my S3L having low oil pressure and I know someone else who had some similar issues.

Please provide any of the following information that you can. Thanks Guys!

Mileage on the motor?
Oil pressure at cold start?
Oil pressure at warm idle?
Oil pressure at warm cruise? (specify rough rpm)
Weight and brand of oil?
Piston/Bore clearance?
Burning any oil?
Anything else that might be relevant to this discussion...

Thanks again!
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:40 PM   #2
Javier
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Bump for some answers!!
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:48 PM   #3
the_colombian
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crawford has a good warranty man. Go back over there and have them check it out. They checked my car several times after my swap to make sure all was good.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #4
Javier
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Thanks for the input. Your comments have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what I'm asking, but thanks...
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:43 PM   #5
norexyet
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Hey steve, do you think you may have to much bearing clearance???
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:58 PM   #6
Javier
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Probably. I can't think of any other logical explanation for my oil pressure being so low. I mean, having to run 50 weight oil to keep my warm oil pressure at a reasonable level is not ok and not normal...
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Old 01-21-2006, 10:07 PM   #7
Flat4 STI
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Instead of being an ass to someone who made a legitimate suggestion why dont you call crawford and ask or is that to much trouble to pick up the phone.
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Old 01-21-2006, 10:24 PM   #8
Javier
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My motor wasn't built by crawford, so whatever warranty crawford offers doesn't apply to me. His post also didn't answer any question that I asked regarding oil pressure. Also, going over to crawford is really not gonna happen from NJ. If he had anything to say relevant to what I asked then I would have taken his suggestion. But his suggestion was not legitimate.
I could call crawford and ask, but I want to hear from people who have the motors and run them everyday. I want their unbiased factual opinions. I will call quirt when I'm ready to speak to him, but I want to have some information before I call him. I don't want to call him and have him tell me 'X' SHOULD happen, when everyone running around with the motors is telling me 'Y' IS happening. Whether quirt is a great guy or not, he is a vendor and I only trust any vendor so much.

Last edited by Javier; 01-21-2006 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 01-21-2006, 11:10 PM   #9
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pmub. Crap I thought if I put it backward it would send this to the bottom.
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Old 01-21-2006, 11:35 PM   #10
Flat4 STI
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You call it an S3L which is how Crawford designates their motors which would lead us to believe it is one of theirs.Thats why he was suggesting calling them.

You should provide the same answers to the questions you asked also.Especially the mileage.
Race motors are known for not lasting very long.

Mileage on the motor?
Oil pressure at cold start?
Oil pressure at warm idle?
Oil pressure at warm cruise? (specify rough rpm)
Weight and brand of oil?
Piston/Bore clearance?
Burning any oil?

I understand that you are trying to get ideas about what is going on though.
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Old 01-22-2006, 05:57 AM   #11
Javier
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My motor is the crawford S3L package (Pauter long rods, Crawford spec'ed 100mm CP pistons, bearings) that I purchased form crawford and had a local shop build for me in a used ej257. So it is an S3L but it wasn't built by crawford.

Mileage: 500miles
Cold oil pressure: ~85psi
Warm Idle Pressure: 14psi
Warm cruise Pressure: 32psi (~3k rpms)
Oil type: Castrol GTX 20w-50 (Non-Synth. for break in)
Piston/Bore Clearance: .0035"
Burning oil?: Not that I can tell but the oil has been changed twice already

Any oil lower than 20w-50 has resulted in oil pressures out of factory spec (7psi idle).
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:01 PM   #12
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Did you ever swap out your oil pump? What pump are using? An EJ22T oil pump with
shims correct?

So from day one you have seen this low oil pressure problem? Did you ever get the spec sheet from your builder?

-Matt
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:13 PM   #13
norexyet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subarulz!
pmub. Crap I thought if I put it backward it would send this to the bottom.
That may be one of the dumbest posts ive ever read. As for the oil pump it was originally a shimmed ej22t pump, but we swapped it for a stock 257 pump.
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:18 PM   #14
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Did it effect the pressure any when you swapped pumps? Did you try and shim the 257 pump? I am assuming you know where the shims are supposed to go.

-Matt
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:25 PM   #15
norexyet
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It was holding pressure pretty well. Once it was fully warmed sitting outside the garage bay he had good pressure but when steve took it for a ride and came back it was back to minimal pressure. I do not believe the 257 pump was shimmed.
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:38 PM   #16
ShaggyGT
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Hmm... Definitely sounds like an assembly error. I would really like to see the specs from the builders notes.

-Matt
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:42 AM   #17
canosardines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier
I'm having some issues with my S3L having low oil pressure and I know someone else who had some similar issues.

Please provide any of the following information that you can. Thanks Guys!

Mileage on the motor?
Oil pressure at cold start?
Oil pressure at warm idle?
Oil pressure at warm cruise? (specify rough rpm)
Weight and brand of oil?
Piston/Bore clearance?
Burning any oil?
Anything else that might be relevant to this discussion...

Thanks again!
Why did you have another shop build it in the first place? Why not have it built from where you were buying the parts? That way they have to take all the responsibility, instead now you are going to have your builder say it was the vendors fault and the vendor say it was the builders fault.

Everyone loves to point fingers but no one ever takes the responsibility and then you get screwed.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:53 AM   #18
Javier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
Why did you have another shop build it in the first place? Why not have it built from where you were buying the parts? That way they have to take all the responsibility, instead now you are going to have your builder say it was the vendors fault and the vendor say it was the builders fault.

Everyone loves to point fingers but no one ever takes the responsibility and then you get screwed.
I had it built by someone who I trust and who I can go visit anytime I want and do business with face-to-face. It's easy for people to be scumbags via email or by phone so I do what I can to avoid having things like this done somewhere too far for me to drive to. Also, If I ever have a problem I'd rather have the person who built the motor sit in the actual car and help me diagnose the problem as opposed to trying to describe a sound/vibration over the phone. And quite frankly, I'm not a fan of how quirt builds motors over there. I had my block machined specifically for my pistons, so they fit right. They buy blocks over there and drop in pistons assuming that the pistons and the block are always exactly the same size. They're not, and that can cause all sorts of problems...

Maybe you need to find some better people to do business with. The builder is going to rebuild the motor free of labor cost. I'm gonna be buying the bearings and sending them to get coated like I should have in the first place....
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:01 AM   #19
canosardines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier
I had it built by someone who I trust and who I can go visit anytime I want and do business with face-to-face. It's easy for people to be scumbags via email or by phone so I do what I can to avoid having things like this done somewhere too far for me to drive to. Also, If I ever have a problem I'd rather have the person who built the motor sit in the actual car and help me diagnose the problem as opposed to trying to describe a sound/vibration over the phone. And quite frankly, I'm not a fan of how quirt builds motors over there. I had my block machined specifically for my pistons, so they fit right. They buy blocks over there and drop in pistons assuming that the pistons and the block are always exactly the same size. They're not, and that can cause all sorts of problems...

Maybe you need to find some better people to do business with. The builder is going to rebuild the motor free of labor cost. I'm gonna be buying the bearings and sending them to get coated like I should have in the first place....
If you trust the people you are going to work with then that is the best option. Hopefully they won't back out when you really need them, but it does not sound like they will.

Doesn't Subaru (a decently reputable company, )put the same exact pistons and rings in every one of there brand new engines?
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:08 AM   #20
Javier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
If you trust the people you are going to work with then that is the best option. Hopefully they won't back out when you really need them, but it does not sound like they will.
They have proven themselves to me many times over. They always come through for me if/when things get bad.
Quote:
Doesn't Subaru (a decently reputable company, )put the same exact pistons and rings in every one of there brand new engines?
Yea, except subaru doesn't use pistons that expand like nuts so they can put them in at MUCH tighter tolerances, whereas the CP pistons will expand a good amount so you have to err on the highside to make them drop-in. Of course, that may work sometimes, and not other times. How many stock sti's have piston slap? How many crawford engines do? $10 says the percentage is higher on the crawford motors
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:22 AM   #21
canosardines
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I have personally never seen any Crawford Engines or Subaru engines with pistons slap. Though I have not seen many of either. But it does beg the question if they are all the same Subaru or Crawford, would you ever hear any piston slap in any?

Remember the internet is not all truth. I only believe what I see and hear first hand.

Anyway good luck on your project and hope all works out well for you and if I were you I wouldn't state you have a S3L if someone else is building it. That is like saying you have an STi when you really have a WRX with all the looks of an STi.
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:57 AM   #22
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does quirt use his drop ins on his higher end motors?
as far as i thought he used a bore gauge and had the block bored and honed for the pistons
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Old 01-24-2006, 04:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
I were you I wouldn't state you have a S3L if someone else is building it. That is like saying you have an STi when you really have a WRX with all the looks of an STi.
that was one of the worst analogy's ive ever heard

a engine case is and engine case, and if built by ANY good engine builder will be an equally good motor, if not a lil better or a lil worse

the statement you made gives me the impression your one of those guys who mods there cars to brag about what brand parts you have. IMO people like that are almost as bad as ricers.

I support the guy who started the thread, he wants honest no BS answers, i think he made the proper decision with a local trustworthy builder. I am in the process of doing the same

Adam

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/p...s.cgi?Menu=1-3
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Old 01-24-2006, 05:05 AM   #24
Javier
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Adam, thanks for the backup. It would be one thing if I dropped in CP pistons on an otherwise stock sti block and called it an S2. That could definitely be open to interpretation. But the fact is that I bought the S3L kit from crawford with crawford spec rods from pauter and crawford spec pistons from CP. The combination doesn't exist anywhere else. I think it's safe to say it's an S3L. The invoice even says 'S3L Stroker Kit'.
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Old 01-24-2006, 05:12 AM   #25
Javier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White 2.5rs
does quirt use his drop ins on his higher end motors?
as far as i thought he used a bore gauge and had the block bored and honed for the pistons
I was calling asking what they spec for piston/bore clearance numbers and he basically said that the pistons come in X size and the bores are Y size and that they don't know what the clearance should be since they don't measure it. Trust me, at 9am this was a very frustrating conversation to be having with an engine builder who supplies pistons. I was amazed he couldn't give me a straight answer. He couldn't give me one, nor could he give my engine builder or the machinist a straight answer either (yes, all three of us spoke to him and I finally got an answer out of him after about 30 minutes of back and forth on the phone).
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