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Old 01-25-2006, 06:43 AM   #1
Silverpike
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Default Want alcohol injection? Try DIY....

Hey guys, I have had some links for DIY alcohol/water injection systems for some time. Thought I should share with everyone looking to go a different route than the commercial SMC, Aquamist, or Snow kits.

Propane Injection:
http://www.importpoweronline.com/propanecontent.html

Lots of DIY links:
http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

Exotic Fuel Information:
http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html

RSR Water Injection stuff (includes nozzle calculator)
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:55 AM   #2
fmowry
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Riftswrx - a tuner here, with a parts and price list, mostly up to date. Suby specific.

http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=34
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:04 AM   #3
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:24 PM   #4
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what advantages would that provide?
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swurbxy
what advantages would that provide?

...run a 100 octane map on 93 for as long as the tank is full
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:45 PM   #6
jason.g
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Silverpike - thanks for the great info!
been considering the aquamist but i'm a DIY kind of guy.

Uncle Scotty - exactly
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:41 AM   #7
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Aquamist nozzels are hard to beat for dropplet size distribution uniformity, as long as you keep the pressure up. You can also tear them down and clean them if you happen to use windshield washer fluid in an emergency and need to clean the gunk out afterwards.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:15 AM   #8
ride5000
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re: uniformity.

i have read that uniformity is not always the ultimate goal, since optimally some finer droplets will immediately vaporize, pulling out heat, and other, larger droplets will find their way into the combustion chamber, where they buffer the combustion process itself.

just relaying what i've heard.
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Old 01-26-2006, 11:20 AM   #9
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Alky is the way to go with turbo cars, they love beng alcoholics, if you know what you are looking for a DIY kit it works out quite nicely
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:13 PM   #10
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Subscribes.
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaxrex
Aquamist nozzels are hard to beat for dropplet size distribution uniformity, as long as you keep the pressure up. You can also tear them down and clean them if you happen to use windshield washer fluid in an emergency and need to clean the gunk out afterwards.
zaxrex:
thats the exact reason i'm considering this kit. you sound like you have a lot of experience with it. do you run the aquamist setup? what are your impressions of it so far if so?
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Old 01-27-2006, 04:52 AM   #12
Silverpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason.g
Silverpike - thanks for the great info!
been considering the aquamist but i'm a DIY kind of guy.

Uncle Scotty - exactly
I posted this mostly for the people with higher HP setups, or to very technical people who would rather save money.

DIY I think is especially suited for people with custom mods. Most of the kits are pretty well put together, but each of them seems to have some weaknesses. Perfectionists can do better if they want to do it all themselves.

More exotic setups operate similar to a direct-port nitrous install, using one nozzle per runner.

One more thing about Propane injection. Propane tends to be less useful for gasoline motors, because the octane increase can be done using ethanol or methanol. Propane tends to be well suited to diesel. The complication with propane is that it is gaseous at normal temperatures, which makes flammability a major problem. Half-assing a propane installation is a great way to get killed.
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpike
More exotic setups operate similar to a direct-port nitrous install, using one nozzle per runner.

the issue i have with such setups is that the put the same amount of ADI in each cylinder.

the debate is still raging whether or not the intake and exhaust manifolds flow evenly enough across all cylinders.

putting one larger injector at a central location will insure that if more charge air goes to one cylinder, so too will more ADI. that is a "good thing" in my book since it will make sure you don't over ADI and snuff out the other cylinders which are pulling less air.

just some theorizing.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:09 AM   #14
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I'm not positive that unequal airflow means liquid particles will also flow equally unequal. Err... You know what I mean.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon
I'm not positive that unequal airflow means liquid particles will also flow equally unequal. Err... You know what I mean.
i do know what you mean.

and i agree. particularly when the manifold was never designed as a "wet" manifold.

i just wonder what the benefits of per port injection (thus guaranteed equal distribution) would be. i also wonder if it would make a blocked nozzle harder to detect.
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Old 01-27-2006, 03:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason.g
zaxrex:
thats the exact reason i'm considering this kit. you sound like you have a lot of experience with it. do you run the aquamist setup? what are your impressions of it so far if so?
Yep, I started with a 1s kit and am now playing with DIY components and the MF2 controller. Housemate hsa the FiA and DDS2 setup of a 2d.

Their stuff is very robust and reliable. Ran the pump dry a few times and it still survives, small nozzels are easy to mount. Service & support from the manufactureer can teach a lot to outher outfits.
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Old 01-27-2006, 03:22 PM   #17
zaxrex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon
I'm not positive that unequal airflow means liquid particles will also flow equally unequal. Err... You know what I mean.
Here is a *link* that gives some visual ques for dropplet behavior in a plenum.

The vids do a good job showing that the momentum of the water carries it to the outside of a turn. With the way the intake manifold is set up, I put my single injector on the bottom of the hose before the TB. I wanted to get more water into #3&#4 which branch off below that #1&#2 runners. I hope that in this case, I am taking advantage of dissimilar distribution (I do not know if #3&#4 are hotter than the front ones, but I think they are).

The direct runner or port injection points take that variable out, but you have to make sure that the water flow is equal at all injection points. I am looking forward to seeing if there is any splat pattern on the inside of the manifold after using WI for a couple of years, especislly since methanol reacts with aluminum. I figure if I have to take the manifold off to get rid of the cold weather gas smell, might as well take a look.
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Old 01-27-2006, 04:16 PM   #18
Silverpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
the issue i have with such setups is that the put the same amount of ADI in each cylinder.

the debate is still raging whether or not the intake and exhaust manifolds flow evenly enough across all cylinders.
Keep in mind I was also thinking more generically. Subies are one of only a few with this uneven VE problem, other cars don't usually deal with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaxrex
I am looking forward to seeing if there is any splat pattern on the inside of the manifold after using WI for a couple of years, especislly since methanol reacts with aluminum.
I have heard of this. I have yet to find anyone with any real data on the subject. Some say to avoid methanol, and others say it doesn't matter. In theory, if the atomization is good enough, aluminum erosion will be negligible. However, for wet manifold setups, that may be a valid concern.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
i just wonder what the benefits of per port injection (thus guaranteed equal distribution) would be. i also wonder if it would make a blocked nozzle harder to detect.
I don't think there would be an advantage to most setups, however, if you had some advanced EM, like Hydra or Motec, then it may be more benificial because both of these EM's support individual cyl. fueling and timing (along with global fueling and timing), so you could fine tune each and every cyl. better.

With say a UTEC, or reflash, I don't think it would matter much at all.

-jason
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:52 PM   #20
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpike
Keep in mind I was also thinking more generically. Subies are one of only a few with this uneven VE problem, other cars don't usually deal with that.
not from what i've seen.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:12 PM   #21
Token-Negro
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I will be taking pictures of my system here in a few days, it uses the aquamist jets, but shruflo pump, accumulator, pressure switches from cooling mist and solinoids from them. I have it doing a dual stage setup. Rated at 100psi.
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