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Old 01-26-2006, 12:34 AM   #1
Guru Imakuni
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Question Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 vs. BFGoodrich Traction T/A

The Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 (Ultra High Performance Summer) are $130.99 each .
  • Drawing inspiration from WRC (World Rally Championship) tire designs, the Michelin® Pilot® Exalto® PE2™ tire was created for consumers who demand crisp and responsive handling in both wet and dry conditions. A descendent of the Michelin® Pilot® Sport PS2™, the Pilot Exalto PE2 tire features LMA (Life Maximized Adherence) tread compounding. This technology helps sustain handling and grip throughout the tire's life.

The BFGoodrich Traction T/A (All-Season Performance) are $117.99 each. It carries a tread rating of 440 and a AA traction rating, almost twice that of the Pilot Exalto PE2 (240 tread, A traction) which concerns me. Is that traction rating amongst other all-seasons? A summer tire's traction rating should be much higher, especially if the tread rating is going to be lower.
  • Traction T/A® delivers unbeatable traction and handling in dry and wet conditions. A directional tread that helps move water out of the way. Great traction plus outstanding mileage. It's also the only tire of its type to offer premium features like directional treads for handling water, ultra high-performance all-season tread compound technology for extra control and hundreds of computer-optimized "biting edges" for gripping ice and snow.

I like the Pilot Exalto PE2 but they sound like they'll wear out quick and I don't want that to happen if they're not even as grippy as the Traction T/As. It just doesn't add up when it's a summer tire though. Please help me decide which tire is better.
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:37 AM   #2
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Better for what?
Ride quality?
Noise Levels?
Handling?
Tire life?
Looks?
Price?


You cannot compare treadwear ratings between different manufacturers.
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:16 PM   #3
Guru Imakuni
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In order I would like:
Handling
Tire life
Ride quality
Noise Levels
Price
Looks

About how long would a set of summer tires be expected to last?
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:00 AM   #4
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They are two completely different classes of tire. One's a summer tire, one's all-season.

The PE2 should stomp the T/A in the summer, but if it's 30F out, the PE2 would be hard as a rock and be pretty crappy.

What's the purpose of these tires? Summer only use, all year use, three season use? You have dedicated winter tire or is this also your winter tire?
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:12 PM   #5
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...of all the tires available....ya gotta go an pick THOSE 2......

I'd be REAL tempted to try some of the PE2's if they were cheap(er) than the alternatives
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Old 01-28-2006, 04:15 PM   #6
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I don't even know if I'll be able to get them in the end. Costco has a $60 off Michelin/BF Goodrich tires coupon (which is why I'm looking at these 2). The coupon expires tomorrow but it takes a couple days to ship them in so I need to pay for them by tomorrow. Apparently there are nicer tires Costco carries but they're ultra high performance touring @ ~$160.

I have all seasons on now which I doubt are nearly worn down so I'll try to go with the PE2s just to find out how long they last. If they go in 15k miles I should still have some all-seasons with at least that left on them, if not more.

Back Road Runner, I'm in Atlanta, GA so I should see a light snow dusting every couple of years. These would be all-season tires in essence, if they last until next winter. My apologies for being a n00b and cross comparising tire types - the Michelin and BF Goodrich both say that different classes aren't comprable on the scales of 10.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:36 PM   #7
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Have you looked on Tire Rack much? The user surveys can be helpful for picking tires, finding out abilities/flaws or oddities of any particular tire. The test results offer head-to-head comparisons of similar tires, dry performance, wet performance, handing feel, noise, etc. are all commented on. Find out who's the best of the best for the type of tire you're looking for.

If temps don't drop too low during the winter months, say mostly above 40F, you can look at summer only tires as they will provide you with the most capability year round, and you'll be covered for wet and dry. If temps get low for any significant period of time or if you experience freezing rain/snow at times during the winter months, an all-season variant may be prefered for improved cold weather performance(compound will remain softer and more pliable as temps drop, unlike summer tires which just turn to rocks).

You may even want to e-mail Luke at Tire Rack and ask about a best fit for the way you drive and what aspects you think are most important in a tire(some people like grip or grip in certain conditions, some handing crispness, some comfort or quietness, etc.)

There's a lot more offerings from both companies, some maybe a better fit than what you listed.

What prices are you looking at? ...after the discount. Ever look at Tire Rack's prices? Costco still cheaper? Also check out Vulcan Tire online as well, some good prices for Falken tires(and others) if you want to consider Falken.
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:18 AM   #8
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I checked Tire Rack but I don't think they had the Pilot Exalto PE2 with numerical user reviews. Even if they did it wouldn't be an accurate picture with them going up against all-seasons.

Costco has the best prices hands down. Tire Rack sells the PE2 for $125.99. Costco sells it for $130.99. That's $5 to get it installed, balanced, and (nitorgen) filled. So it appears they can't be beat...

But I took another look. I've never heard of Vulcan Tires. Gave them a look. Tire Rack doesn't carry Falken tires (Costco only carries Michelin & BF Goodrich). I looked at the Falkens and it seems like the Falken FK-451 came out a little further ahead than the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712. The Kumhos had mostly 7.5 across the board so I was hoping the Falkens would be a bit better. When I was checking the ratings at Tire Rack I noticed they had the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s even cheaper than Vulcan Tires. So going with Tire Rack I could get the 712s for only $337.01, with the road hazard warranty too! Getting them mounted I'm guessing would be $80. The place I was looking at (mentioned on Tire Rack) said most tires $14-18 and rubber valve stems are 95 cents. So around $420 in the end as compared to Costco's $463.96 (plus tax).

So Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2s ($463.96 + tax) vs. Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 (under $420) vs. BFGoodrich Traction T/A ($411.96 + tax). I think the Kumhos are midrange performance wise but seem to come closer to the Traction T/A's price. I think I'll go with them. I'll know by tomorrow though since my $60 coupon expires.
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:00 AM   #9
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The 712s are pretty much junk, and don't deserve to be in the same sentence with the Michelins. I'd spend the extra $40 (c'mon, 40 bucks?!) and get the Michelins.

Pat Olsen
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
The 712s are pretty much junk, and don't deserve to be in the same sentence with the Michelins. I'd spend the extra $40 (c'mon, 40 bucks?!) and get the Michelins.
Pat Olsen
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:26 PM   #11
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i have the traction t/a's on my car and do some considerable road racing and auto-x. If you do this then these are not the tires for you. They are incredibly better than the stock tires, and are great for everyday (boring) driving. Performance driving will require you to rotate them after your track day. I am not buying these again......
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
I looked at the Falkens and it seems like the Falken FK-451 came out a little further ahead than the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712. The Kumhos had mostly 7.5 across the board so I was hoping the Falkens would be a bit better. When I was checking the ratings at Tire Rack I noticed they had the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s even cheaper than Vulcan Tires.

Dude, the Falken 451 is in a totally different class than the 712. It smokes the 712, and in fact competes head to head with the SO3's and PS of the world, for far less money. They'll smoke your PE2 and T/A, too.

I had em, and I don't think there's a better all around street tire for the money. High levels of dry traction, insane wet traction, great treadwear, and reasonably priced. If you exceed these tires limits on the street, you're a moron.

I just posted this in another thread, but www.edgeracing.com has em, as does www.tires.com .
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:18 AM   #13
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Argh!?!??!

I didn't order any at Costco Sunday afternoon because the guy couldn't find them in the system. The coupon offer is being extended though so I have the tire ID number and should set them straight.

I understand the 712s are pretty bad now. Are the FK-451 tires really better than the PE2 tires? The 451 tires have a tread rating of 280 with a traction rating of AA (tires.com just says A though). The PE2 tires have a tread rating of 240 and a traction rating of A. On the up and up the Falkens now sound better.

It's a little cheaper through tires.com (including a real road hazard warranty which Costco doesn't offer) so it would be nice if the Falkens are the better ones.



PS. Should I get the road hazard protection or use their included prorated feature? Since summer tire's lives aren't very long anyway it might not be worth it.

Last edited by Guru Imakuni; 01-30-2006 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:47 AM   #14
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Go here, and read the links:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...55&postcount=5

The 451 is better. They are going to last longer than you think, and don't pay attention to the wear ratings: they differ between manufacturers. You can't use them as a judge.

I wouldn't get the hazard replacement: with AWD, you may have to replace all 4 tires anyway, if they're worn a bit.

Last edited by poison; 01-30-2006 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:08 PM   #15
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Hey Guru,
Just more info for you, I have the Falken 451s (225/40-18), and they are due for replacement after 25,000 miles of "spirited driving", but no autox, trackdays, etc. Something to correlate that "280" treadwear rating to.
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:24 PM   #16
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No one(unless I missed it) has mentioned the Pirelli Pzero Nero. GREAT A/S tire that wears very well(for as hard as I drive), quiet, great wet/dry traction, and reasonable $$. I live in Chattanooga and we haven't seen any real snowfall in years despite being near the mountains. I'll be tempted to get another set of Pzero's if I don't decide to try the PE2's before then.
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:31 PM   #17
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Yeah, but those are all seasons.
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:35 PM   #18
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Um, yeah, so were the BF Goodrich's the OP was asking about and considering.....
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:58 PM   #19
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hey, Guru, i just now got a co-worker a deal on 4 Falken 451's in 215/45/17 for $453 out the door, tax, mount, balance, everything, at Americas Tire Co. He's installing them Sat.

So your price is damn high, given the smaller size. Try somewhere else. I'd call a Discount Tire/Americas Tire Co like I did and ask for a deal. I paid $380 out the door for 451's in 205/50/16 from Discount Tire 2 years ago.

Also, www.edgeracing.com has the 115's for $64 per tire in your size, a good deal.

Last edited by poison; 01-30-2006 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:47 PM   #20
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poison, without the road hazard warranty it comes out a little cheaper then the $453 you mentioned. I'll try to comparison shop a little bit more. Will be hard to find someone local that price matches online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acostafan
Um, yeah, so were the BF Goodrich's the OP was asking about and considering.....
They were in consideration until I found out that the ratings don't mean the same thing across the board. Depending how fast these tires burn out will decide what I go with later on. I've had the RE92s and I have a limited run set of Yokohamas (AS430 all seasons) that aren't even listed on their website on right now. I want summers to see how much of a difference they make and to see if it's really worth it.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
poison, without the road hazard warranty it comes out a little cheaper then the $453 you mentioned. I'll try to comparison shop a little bit more. Will be hard to find someone local that price matches online.


They were in consideration until I found out that the ratings don't mean the same thing across the board. Depending how fast these tires burn out will decide what I go with later on. I've had the RE92s and I have a limited run set of Yokohamas (AS430 all seasons) that aren't even listed on their website on right now. I want summers to see how much of a difference they make and to see if it's really worth it.
No, they don't. Which makes it no different than any other comparison you're making. Check out the ratings for it on Tire Rack and decide for yourself. Lots of guys on here run them. They have a great combination of A/S grip, wear, and comfort. I've run lots of tires including Falkens, Pilots, and Kumhos. The Pzeros are tough to beat for the money.
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
poison, without the road hazard warranty it comes out a little cheaper then the $453 you mentioned. I'll try to comparison shop a little bit more. Will be hard to find someone local that price matches online.


They were in consideration until I found out that the ratings don't mean the same thing across the board. Depending how fast these tires burn out will decide what I go with later on. I've had the RE92s and I have a limited run set of Yokohamas (AS430 all seasons) that aren't even listed on their website on right now. I want summers to see how much of a difference they make and to see if it's really worth it.
Keep in mind the $453 is for 17's. 16's should be around $50-80 less for the same tires. And Discount Tires should price match.
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:12 AM   #23
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Talking Try to ask what other tires they carry

I stopped by my local Costco yesterday asking about the BFG Sport and KDW's. Both of these are not all season's but the KDWS is all season. These tires do not come up on their computer, except the KDWS, they have to look in their book to see if they carry this size.

The BGF Sport was 87.99, treadwear rating is 340 AA A and the KDW was 128.99, treadwear rating is 300 AA A. Both of these tires were part of the special. They also have the BFG KDWS all season for 106.99, treadwear rating 400 AA A.

Juan
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgolfr212
i have the traction t/a's on my car and do some considerable road racing and auto-x. If you do this then these are not the tires for you. They are incredibly better than the stock tires, and are great for everyday (boring) driving. Performance driving will require you to rotate them after your track day. I am not buying these again......
You're, ummm, surprised by this?
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
Argh!?!??!

I didn't order any at Costco Sunday afternoon because the guy couldn't find them in the system. The coupon offer is being extended though so I have the tire ID number and should set them straight.

I understand the 712s are pretty bad now. Are the FK-451 tires really better than the PE2 tires? The 451 tires have a tread rating of 280 with a traction rating of AA (tires.com just says A though). The PE2 tires have a tread rating of 240 and a traction rating of A. On the up and up the Falkens now sound better.

It's a little cheaper through tires.com (including a real road hazard warranty which Costco doesn't offer) so it would be nice if the Falkens are the better ones.



PS. Should I get the road hazard protection or use their included prorated feature? Since summer tire's lives aren't very long anyway it might not be worth it.

go to www.costco.com and click on the tire section, you can get some BFG gforce KDWS's delivered to your local costco...
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