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Old 01-30-2006, 06:05 PM   #1
flwrx
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Default H6 swap into bugeye info needed

Im looking for more information on the H6 swap. I know perrin is running one, but cant seem to find any more info on it. You can source these motors complete for only 2k, so it seems like building the internals and boosting it would yield great results for the money.

If anyone has any info or links that would help my research, Id appreciate it.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:14 PM   #2
PHATsuby
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call PDXTuning we can build you one what type of info are you looking for, we are doing 3 of them 2 in bugeyes, one in my legacy.

ask your questions and I can answer them for you.

Ben
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:12 PM   #3
Nick W
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Default h6 swap

Hello,

I have been curious about this swap, are there custom motor mounts or is it a new sub frame. what kind of cost is there to the swap? ball park of course

Nicholas
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby
call PDXTuning we can build you one what type of info are you looking for, we are doing 3 of them 2 in bugeyes, one in my legacy.

ask your questions and I can answer them for you.

Ben
thanks but im poor; gotta build it myself

I guess I just wanna know the basics. What kind of fabrication if any is needed to get it in the engine bay? What would I use for motor mounts? Would I need to swap in H6 wiring harness, and I assume Id need to run a standalone? Does PDX or Perrin make any turbo H6 exhaust bits or would I have to do custom? What kind of space b/w engine and firewall is there? Can you share any engine bay pics of one installed?

and basic noob questions about the motor itself.....compression ratio, semi-closed deck, can they handle any boost in stock form? Whats the strength of pistons, rods, crank and does anyone make aftermarket parts for it?

I have a feeling if Im gonna do it I need to do it now.....before it becomes too popular and the price for H6 motors rises substantially.


Thanks

Last edited by flwrx; 01-30-2006 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flwrx
thanks but im poor; gotta build it myself
If you're poor, don't even consider this swap. Period! EJ205 and EJ257 swaps are easier and less expensive.
Quote:
I guess I just wanna know the basics. What kind of fabrication if any is needed to get it in the engine bay?
There are no fabrications needed to mount the 3.0L H6 into your engine bay.
Quote:
What would I use for motor mounts?
My H6 came with motor mounts, but if not you should be able to order them from your local dealership (use 2005 Tribeca or H6 Outback for parts look-up).
Quote:
Would I need to swap in H6 wiring harness, and I assume Id need to run a standalone?
Can't help you on the wiring harness, but you will need to run a stand-alone ECU. I've explored the options and Hydra is what I'm using.
Quote:
Does PDX or Perrin make any turbo H6 exhaust bits or would I have to do custom?
I would go custom if you have a trusted exhaust shop or if you are experienced with welding and/or exhaust work.
Quote:
What kind of space b/w engine and firewall is there? Can you share any engine bay pics of one installed?
I don't have a WRX, but my engine bay isn't much different. Search for my name in this forum for my thread. It has many pics to give you a general idea.

Quote:
and basic noob questions about the motor itself.....compression ratio, semi-closed deck, can they handle any boost in stock form? Whats the strength of pistons, rods, crank and does anyone make aftermarket parts for it?
Do research and lots of it before you consider going ahead with an EZ30 project. I repeat that it will not be cheap. You will want to replace the internals on the EZ30 to lower compression which adds to the expenses.


Quote:
I have a feeling if Im gonna do it I need to do it now.....before it becomes too popular and the price for H6 motors rises substantially.


Thanks
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flwrx
I have a feeling if Im gonna do it I need to do it now.....before it becomes too popular and the price for H6 motors rises substantially.
meh .. they have sold 17k tribeccas since may .. its only gonna get cheeper

the imobilizer makes he stock ecu basicly useless thus the need for the hydra
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:52 PM   #7
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thanks for the info man. pretty much all the answers I expected.


I do however, think there is a possibility of the cost of H6's increasing with the popularity of the swap. I recall 6-speeds, JDM or US, being not so outrageous in cost back in 2004. Now we've had those transmissions in the US for 3 years and the price has gone up not down. Kingpin is already selling H6's for $3000.

Last edited by flwrx; 01-31-2006 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:14 PM   #8
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same space as 4 banger to firewall(read room for turbo). get the stock ecu and harness plug it in, and drive it(thinks its an H6 leggy). any suby motor mounts work. and stock wrx rear exhaust with custom front to mate right.
linaracing.com has their build(very basic) for rally, and i've contemplated it seriously. car-part.com has H6's for cheaper than i've found elsewhere. check local junkyards for parts, and save tons$$$
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kheff46
same space as 4 banger to firewall(read room for turbo). get the stock ecu and harness plug it in, and drive it(thinks its an H6 leggy). any suby motor mounts work. and stock wrx rear exhaust with custom front to mate right.
linaracing.com has their build(very basic) for rally, and i've contemplated it seriously. car-part.com has H6's for cheaper than i've found elsewhere. check local junkyards for parts, and save tons$$$
ignore this post almost everything in it is wrong

its longer fan clearance to the radiator is very close
the stock ecu will work with the ez30 but not the ez30r (read slack's build up)
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:38 PM   #10
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jaxx- it has been done this way whether you like it or not!
correct- same space to firewall as ej20/22/25 etc.
correct-any impreza exhaust will work with minor sections added. it's an impreza!
correct-an H6 with an H6 ecu runs whether you install it in a grocery cart, or on my bicycle! c'mon are we gonna go thru this? just like a brake system rhd/lhd dosen't matter. if the system works, it works whether on your granny's walker, or whatever!
ez30 is different than the R, i know this and have known for a year or so. the fan thing is why i gave a link exposing the EASILY TACKLED PROBLEMS INVOLVED!
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:45 PM   #11
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yay pissing match

anyway
firewall clearance is not an issue its dictated by the transmission
flexalight fans work in the front
for that matter a honda exhaust will work but its going to require lots of welding.. its not gonna bolt up- nor is any thing else

ez30r ecus have a rfid immobilizer
if you had read slacks post he ordered all the parts (not cheep) to make a ez30r ecu work but ran into needing the key# added to the ecu rom.. the dealer couldn't or wouldn't do it
if you look at the fsm for the bp/bl legacy the number of connectors/harness under the dash it is astonishing its at least 2x the number of connections of the 1.8L harness
for example bp/bls don't have a speed sensor in the transmission (like every other subau) the ecu it gets its speed signal via can bus from the ABS module
basicly the 05+ is a whole differnt class of complexity

not saying it can't be done just that its not el-quicko-swapo (probbaly the hardest subaru swap ever done)

i am all about breaking new ground and learning things along the way but i would rather warn people about it ahead of time so they don't fall into the same holes that i did ..
it all $$$/time but at some point its simply cheeper/easeier to "go buy a z06"
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:04 PM   #12
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flwrx- he's talking about THE most expensive way to do the H6 swap also. using the newest version possible(read too much$$). please do yourself a favor and research all threads containing H6's and any ej swap requiring wiring. you'll find easier ways to do things than listening to 100 people with 99 different theories!

again linaracing.com has the cheap way(cheapest?? not sure) to go at it. please do some diggin it's in there!

and if someone wanted a Z06 why not just buy one and park it 80% of the year and bitch about not driving it(like all Z06 owners i know!(5)). and it's not that nice of a car, drove 3 of the 5 i see daily. too much $$ just to replace exhaust pieces(read junk car) that are poorly re-designed to utter ineffiency and in a severe realm of ****box uniqueness! best bang for the buck except an sti swap in a gc of course!
oh, shake, shake zip! courtesy flush? nah!
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:29 PM   #13
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wow!

I'm going to throw 2 things out there.

First if you just want an H6 (assume ez30r) swap the cheapest most complete way would to be to source a salvage Tribeca or Outback. Like Jaxx said 17k tribecas sold and I've seen several wrecked so far. This still isn't "cheap".

Second, turboing any H6 is all pretty much custom work and is not cheap at all. Not for the faint of heart, heck, PHATsuby has all of PDXtuning's resources at his disposal and he'll probably admit its not easy.

Why do you want to do this?
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Old 02-01-2006, 05:44 PM   #14
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I originally planned on doing a turbo engine swap, but when I was researching different swaps I came upon the EZ30. Gruppe-S had one for a lower price than you can get it now and I put that idea into the mix. At first it seemed like I could do it for less (laughable now) and would be unique by offering a completely different power delivery. I bought one of the first H6's from Gruppe-S and carefully gathered parts until I had a complete setup (I thought) and shortly thereafter I removed my EJ22 and started the swap. That was last May and my car has been down ever since.

I am still quite eager to get the car running soon. It will be a beast, though I will be avoiding any turbos for a few years. Despite exceeding my original budget threefold, it will be worth the effort I've put into it.

Mick
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:16 PM   #15
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I just seen an H6 engine at a junk yard (in an old Subaru XT) Would one of these motors work for the swap? Or are there a few major differences in those of the old days, and these of today?
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:22 AM   #16
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the XT's are 2.7 liter carbuerated motors, so they are a bit different

the EZ30R is not a cheap swap, xeleventy billion if you want to turbo. See my thread in the legacy forum.

I would personally do a EZ30R even if it was just NA with a stand alone, so you could tune some more out of it with the avcs and avls, motors are going for what 1700, hydra is the same, plus exhaust. assuming complete motor, you are looking at 4k likely doing the work yourself thats without tranny.

Basically, even having discounted parts, turbo is insanely expensive and I am doing all the fab work myself. What rsk135 means to say is pdxtuning has me at their disposal LOL.

Ben
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:00 AM   #17
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Yeah, sorry Ben. Credit where credit is due.

I still want to know why flwrx wants to do this. I've often thought of a old N/A ez30 swap in my forester. Mostly for the fun and uniqueness of it. But I know I wouldn't spend xeleventy billion dollars to turbo it.

As for old school h6 swaps here's a 2.7 in a brat. Check out the reclined radiator.
http://www.subarubrat.com/mybrat.htm
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Old 02-02-2006, 11:40 AM   #18
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what engine management would be used for the H6 if you want to go high HP

can the hydra work?
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Old 02-02-2006, 11:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH00nel2
what engine management would be used for the H6 if you want to go high HP

can the hydra work?
Yes, that is what we will be running..

Dave-
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:25 PM   #20
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So, here's a question...

Could you make an EZ30R run on an EZ30 ECU at all? Obviousy the EZ30R ECU requires immobilizer crap, so its worthless. Buuuut, could someone swap the Hydra out and swap an EZ30 ECU in for emissions testing? Specifically, the OBD-II I/M checks.

Theoretically speaking, of course.
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:34 PM   #21
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its expensive custom project esp if you turbo it but

for anyone interested in turboing this motor, it pulls out some good torque and power for not running such high boost vs a 2.5 or a jdm 2.0

thought about it but not worth it
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:10 AM   #22
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Smile carb?

[quote=PHATsuby]the XT's are 2.7 liter carbuerated motors, so they are a bit different

No,mpfi thanks
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:33 AM   #23
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well I stand corrected, thanks for the info.

Ben
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adhowe70
So, here's a question...

Could you make an EZ30R run on an EZ30 ECU at all? Obviousy the EZ30R ECU requires immobilizer crap, so its worthless. Buuuut, could someone swap the Hydra out and swap an EZ30 ECU in for emissions testing? Specifically, the OBD-II I/M checks.

Theoretically speaking, of course.
I highly doubt it, but you're more than welcome to try!

Mick
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:23 AM   #25
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That wasn't the answer I wanted. But it was the answer I expected.
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