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Old 09-16-1999, 09:12 AM   #1
EricR
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Thumbs up Subaru Legacy GT Focus Group

Went to a Subaru Legacy focus group last night. Subaru hired an independent company to talk with perspective buyers and owners of Subaru Legacy GT's. The focus group consisted of 4-10 people with a moderator (recorded and video taped). The first group was the perspective buyers and the second group was us.. the owners. We were asked to review the brochures of Subaru's new Legacy vrs. Audi A4, Volvo C70 Sedans and BMW M3.

From the focus group it is very apperent that Subaru is trying to find a upscale image with the new Legacy. It was also apperent that they wanted the image to be performance oriented. When the first group (perspective buyers) came out they were all taking about the A4 and BMW. I don't know if Subaru reached them. When it came time for us (4 Legacy GT owners) we all had mixed reactions to the fact that Subaru wanted to make an upscale performance image out of the Legacy.

We all agreed that the new GT was a great looking car but feelings were mixed on the image. We all taked about 'practical, dependable, safety and value for the money'. We discussed the pros and cons of each vehicle and what each brochure was targeting and the points they were trying to convey.

Overall, it was an enjoyable experience. We each received 50 bucks to boot! When the moderator asked if we had any final comments I made the following remark: "If Subaru wants to market this car in the same breath as the Audi and BMW they are going to have to add some bite to the bark. Bring us the B4 twin turbo or get the Flat 6 in this car. Otherwise when magazines like Road&Track and Moter Trend get ahold of this car they are going to be dissapointed by a 2.5 165hp flat 4. And Subaru will not get any respect or credibility to back the attempted image."

The others in the group agreed fully. It was great to get to express my feelings to SOA. I hope they take notice of what the overall feeling was of the group. Hopefully they will be suprised that some Subaru owners know about and long for the B4.. if only in our dreams.
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Old 09-16-1999, 09:21 AM   #2
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I agree with the "bite for bark" statement. At 165bhp, the legacy is decent for it's weight (HP to weight ratio is comparable to Accords and Civics), but when you start comparing it to the upscale euros, it starts to pale to the power that they provide.

So what are they going to do, let's look at it this way: If they decide to market to the Audi/BMW crowd, they are going to lose face, IMHO, because that crowd *expects* more than what the Legacy provides for the price, on the other hand, if they decide to market to the Accord crowd, they will do good because they provide so much more (AWD, etc).

Just my 2

A

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Old 09-16-1999, 09:48 AM   #3
Paisan
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If they are going to take on Audi and BMW, they are going to need 2 things.

1) A bigger platform to compliment the legacy. (something that can accomodate a big flat six, possibly with turbo) so that legacy drivers will have somewhere to go up once they outgrow the legacy.

2) more power (as has been mentioned earlier) six or turbo four.

I'd love to see a turbo flat 6 putting out 350+ HP and the size of say an A6 or A8.

-mike

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Old 09-16-1999, 10:36 PM   #4
Jason
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I think if Subaru wants to make something compareable to 3 series to A4, they should have a complete brand new model name.

I will say Honda Accord is a very refine car, equal or better then the new Legacy. But you never hear people compare Accord (V6) to a BMW 3 series or an AUdi A4. Honda Corp spend millions to build a more upscale name "Acura" to fight the eurpean car makers...

Before Subaru wants to compare their cars to German make, maybe they should make them compareable to the Japanese brand, Honda and Toyotas.... (you got to learn how to walk before you run!)

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Old 10-29-2003, 06:41 PM   #5
02BlackWRX
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i dont get it, so there are focus groups for subaru?

where can I get more info?
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:31 PM   #6
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so the new USDM Legacy has NOT got a turbo variant?? what about the new twin-scroll single turbo GT available in Japan (and Aussie & New Zealand)?? you guys not get that?? I'd be TOTALLY up in arms with SOA, this is a brilliant ride.....lighter than the outgoing B4 & twin-entry single turbo = WOOF WOOF! surely SOA wants it???
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:34 PM   #7
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Look at the date on this thread
This is talking aobut the previous generation of Legacies

We're getting a 2.5 turbo in Spring.
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:34 PM   #8
KD7000
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Why did someone resurrect a 4 year old post?
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Old 10-29-2003, 08:08 PM   #9
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I'm not sure
it's happening all over the place, 2,3,4 year old posts are popping up.
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Old 10-29-2003, 09:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by sybir
I'm not sure
it's happening all over the place, 2,3,4 year old posts are popping up.
You know what's really weird ? I frequent about 3-4 boards and even though they use different software I've been seeing old posts coming back from the dead more than usual on ALL of them.
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:36 PM   #11
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I see dead threads. They're everywhere!

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Old 10-30-2003, 02:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by WAFlowers
I see dead threads. They're everywhere!

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LOL!!!!
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Old 10-30-2003, 11:54 AM   #13
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It is the day before Halloween!

MUH, HA, HA, HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-30-2003, 01:46 PM   #14
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Here I was expecting something new until I read the part about needing more than 165hp. Then I noticed the date. What a letdown.
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Old 10-30-2003, 02:17 PM   #15
serious
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Halloween is comming and old posts are comming back to life!
I'd agree with the other guy that said subaru needs another name if they wanted to play with the upscale players. People think of subarus as dependable cars that are of a decent value. If subaru tries to make a upscale legacy to the point of a bmw it will just get laughed at.
So come out with a new luxury performance line and give it the bling and power it needs and leave the current subies to us that want a less expensive car.
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Old 10-30-2003, 05:54 PM   #16
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The new Legacy in Japan has the new H6 motor with 240hp. It is coming to Australia in 2004 but I don't know about the US. Some have compared it favourably with the BMW 330. I have driven the new Outback H6 with the 240hp motor with the 5 speed tiptronic auto and its a screamer!

Also the GT Legacy 2.5turbo is supposed to be going to the US with 250hp.
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Old 10-30-2003, 10:25 PM   #17
serious
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250 hp- hope that's underated like the forester was underated. Is the turbo legacy going to be in the current body style or will it be the all new looking one?
Brent
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Old 10-31-2003, 06:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubaH6
I have driven the new Outback H6 with the 240hp motor with the 5 speed tiptronic auto and its a screamer!

So you eventually got to drive the new Outback 3.0R ?

How does the H6 engine compare to the GT ?
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Old 10-31-2003, 09:22 AM   #19
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Man you should have made a statement like base model legacys should have at minimum the 2.5 turbo that is in the Forestor and and elite model completly decked out with a flat 6 twin turbo or single turbo to really compete with M3 or Audi S4. Combine that with the amount of time spent on getting the WRX STI's chassis tuned properly and a suspension that compliments it.

I think generally we need to let them know that a Legacy with the WRX's turbo 2.0 isn't going to impress us. Its definitely not going to impress the Bimmer class market. The S4 and M3 have reached near supercar status but are obtainable. We need a standout Legacy worthy of the same stature. 350hp Turbo 6 would do it along with B4 styling Ques.

Brad
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Old 10-31-2003, 10:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by serious
250 hp- hope that's underated like the forester was underated. Is the turbo legacy going to be in the current body style or will it be the all new looking one?
Brent
It will be the new bodystyle, B#/BP. I keep forgetting the chassis code for the sedan.

Im pretty sure the gearing will be tweaked for the tubo Legacy to get the performance numbers. Much like the Forester XT with its insane 4.44. Tho it is expected if it is seriously expected to go up against Saab's 9-3T vector, Audi's A4 2.8 or Bimmer's 330/328.
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Old 10-31-2003, 12:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hiroki Tada
It will be the new bodystyle, B#/BP. I keep forgetting the chassis code for the sedan.
The sedan chassis code is BL.

AG
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Old 10-31-2003, 01:11 PM   #22
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WHy do people talk about power and not handling???

The legacy handles like a friggin camry. I guess that is the competition. I got my car to have great ballance by doubling the size of the rear sway bar, and then adding lots of caster and stiff bushings with the ALK. Now the car handles good for a heavy AWD car (although I always like RWD better). It is alot of fun like this, but I am getting so tired of the stiff ride with the ALK (makin my CD skip all of the time). Handling VS ride - you can have both but not in a Legacy.

I got so pissed, I went and bought an Audi. Much better fit and finish, and a suspension much better than a basic strut set up. I love it! Audi doesn't have diddly for HP, so I went and doubled the turbo's boost for some WRX style fun. Cheap and easy. I really can't do anything to the subie 2.5l engine without destroying the engine and transmission. Shoot, I go through a clutch every 20K on this car anyway (what the heck is going on with that???). Unfortunately the subie brakes are way too small on my car. It scares me to try to stop the subie after driving the Audi.

I know Subaru can do it (just look at the forrester turbo, WRX, STI...). My legacy is a poor attemtp at a GT. I can't believe they even put that logo on the car at all!

(did I vent enough? Power, suspension, brakes, interior fit and finnish - all way lower than an audi I hate to say...)
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Old 10-31-2003, 11:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mx5racer
WHy do people talk about power and not handling???

The legacy handles like a friggin camry. I guess that is the competition. I got my car to have great ballance by doubling the size of the rear sway bar, and then adding lots of caster and stiff bushings with the ALK. Now the car handles good for a heavy AWD car (although I always like RWD better). It is alot of fun like this, but I am getting so tired of the stiff ride with the ALK (makin my CD skip all of the time). Handling VS ride - you can have both but not in a Legacy.

I got so pissed, I went and bought an Audi. Much better fit and finish, and a suspension much better than a basic strut set up. I love it! Audi doesn't have diddly for HP, so I went and doubled the turbo's boost for some WRX style fun. Cheap and easy. I really can't do anything to the subie 2.5l engine without destroying the engine and transmission. Shoot, I go through a clutch every 20K on this car anyway (what the heck is going on with that???). Unfortunately the subie brakes are way too small on my car. It scares me to try to stop the subie after driving the Audi.

I know Subaru can do it (just look at the forrester turbo, WRX, STI...). My legacy is a poor attemtp at a GT. I can't believe they even put that logo on the car at all!

(did I vent enough? Power, suspension, brakes, interior fit and finnish - all way lower than an audi I hate to say...)
It's a good thing that the next generation Legacy will be quite a leap in performance and quality over the current and past models. Hopefully and likely, no one will have anything major to complain about. If there is any doubt of things to come, one only need to read the favorable reviews of the JDM model. Given the global position of the new generation, the USDM version should be closer than it has ever been before if not exactly the same.

AG
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Old 11-01-2003, 06:25 PM   #24
serious
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Subaru and audi are two completely different cars. Sure, they compare the same for things like awd, four door, but if you want a top trim car buy the audi.
Personally i think subies are somewhat on the cheap side for materials and the overall fit and finish is only so so. Example; look at the carpet in a wrx, it's so damn cheap looking. Another; try taking anything apart on a legacy and you are sure to break it because the plastic is cheap in quality.
Yeah, subaru shouldn't have ever put the "GT" bagde on the car, but they did. Hopefully if they are going to still bagde it that why they'll at least give it some nuts to make up for their shortcomings on the earlier cars.
Brent
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