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Old 02-02-2006, 11:48 AM   #1
Rokkit
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Default P+P Stock Headers Vs Aftermarket

Just wondering what the positives or negitives of P+P stock headers are vs aftermarket tubular headers.

Im debating on just P+P my stockers and running with that when I upgrade...

I don't know the actual differences between stock headers and tubular headers when it comes to airflow.

Also, heat retention can be solved by wrapping aftermarkets, but its jut another 30$ on top of the 800, heh.

I did search, any comments in this comparison would be great.

Thanks all,
Mike
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:24 PM   #2
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from what i've gathered, you would be better off p&p'ing your stock headers unless your pushing like eleventy billion horsepower. aftermarket headers will give you better top end performance but increase turbo lag slightly due to the fact that you have to fill a larger area with exhuast gases before the turbo starts to spin. i think thats right, i'm sure i read it somewhere else on here. Most people seem to recommend gasket matching and polishing for the best results for anything below 300hp.

there was a shop that tested a bunch of different headers and did a write up on it but i cant seem to find it at the momment.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:25 PM   #3
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P&P stockers, better low end through spool.

Tubular headers, sacrifice low end for more top end.

Weight.

Pick your poison.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:46 PM   #4
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Stocks are heavier i would assume, being cast right?
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkit
Stocks are heavier i would assume, being cast right?
correct.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:50 PM   #6
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yes, cast is considerably heavier. i could hold my borla headers with one hand easily but had to use some muscle carrying the stock header. there is definitely some lag, as i just recently swapped back to the stock header, but also did notice a drop in power top end. i'm going to swap back to the borla once i get tuned.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:15 PM   #7
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Hm in debating on turbos for the future, but I do a lot of rallyx, autox, etc. So i need the semi low end/mid range.

I would assume P+P the stockers would be a better choice.

Do you know the interior diamer of the piping vs after market headers?

Borla, etc.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:18 PM   #8
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FYI the old esx 9sec car was using the stock exaust manifold, it was P&P.
Just port the stock headers, you don't want to lose that famous boxer rumble.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastwrx006
FYI the old esx 9sec car was using the stock exaust manifold, it was P&P.
Just port the stock headers, you don't want to lose that famous boxer rumble.

You dont lose the boxer rumble with aftermarket headers hehe. its lost with EQUAL LENGTH headers... which are actually more expensive than the borla or xxtuning headers...

most are unequal like the stockers.
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Old 02-02-2006, 03:39 PM   #10
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Black is Borla, blue is a ported stocker. This is with a VF30 and stock TMIC.
Ported sound clip: http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZmQzMXk1NDE%3D
Borla sound clip: http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZmQzMXk1NDE%3D
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rex2004
P&P stockers, better low end through spool.

Tubular headers, sacrifice low end for more top end.

Weight.

Pick your poison.
my big concern was price...$600+ for quality coated headers...$200 for matchported & ceramic coated stock manifold...to me it was an easy choice...
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:57 AM   #12
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FYI XXtuning headers WILL break... vivid racing sucks.
I have MRT headers.. i didnt lose the boxer sounds, its just raspier.. they're extremely lighter than the stockers and take up much less space under the block(not that it really matters). From what i've seen, aftermarkets WILL make a difference if tuned right... tuning is the key. I made about 13 more ponies with the MRT's than with the stocker. I didnt have it pnp'ed however... You just have to look at what YOU use the car for and what you need. If you need low end, go with the stockers, if you want high end, aftermarkets...
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:58 AM   #13
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i am also debating this as well too.... I just got a turbo upgrade which likely won't be wanting for much on the top end of the scale... infact, all it will be good for is top end highway power....But then again, I consider how much of a gain in top end HP my Gruppe S headers have been on my current setup, and I am thinking that I will get even more out of them on an even bigger turbo
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernj
You just have to look at what YOU use the car for and what you need. If you need low end, go with the stockers, if you want high end, aftermarkets...
Excellent way of putting it.

I'd also like to let everyone know the "butt dyno" is not accurate enough to notice that 10-15hp difference.. but your time slip will. So if you're interested in a timeslip, go with the header.. if you don't plan on drag racing your car - use the ported manifold.
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:04 AM   #15
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I currently have the Borla on my car. I did lose a my low end when I put them on (Cobb II).
I had my car tuned by PDX and Tim did an amazing job of getting my low end back. I can make 1 bar at 2900 rpm with the Borla.

I want more lowend (autocross, street) so I'm going to go P&P stock headers and a Deadbolt turbo. The extra HP on top is not nearly that important to me.
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:14 AM   #16
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great responses everyone. I guess ill be P+Pin my extra set of headers then

Thanks to you all

Mike
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:57 AM   #17
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I would P&P your stockers. I have aftermarket ones right now with a vf34 and I'm going to P&P my stock ones and get them heat treated and then put them back on. The little top end that I will loose will be worth the heat restraint and low end that I gain. Thatís just my opinion.
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:02 AM   #18
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Take a look at Crucial Racing as from what I have heard, they have a program to send yours in and have them P&P'd and ceramic coated for $200. This is a killer deal if it is correct.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:30 AM   #19
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P & P is the way to go!! Tis what I did and love it for several reasons...

-Stealth (No Dealer will know the diff. if you've P & P'd or Gutted your Uppie)
-Low End still there
-Better heat retention (Unless wrapped)

Just my $.02...
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:06 PM   #20
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Well im in a predicament then...I want to keep good low-end but i love the equal-length sound much better then the stock sound.
Any recomendations for some good EL headers?
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:11 PM   #21
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The Fujitsubo was looking good.. and the GP Moto's include the "up pipe" in the design. APS has a sick equal length system but would require the STi oil pan to fit the WRX.
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK02WAGON
Take a look at Crucial Racing as from what I have heard, they have a program to send yours in and have them P&P'd and ceramic coated for $200. This is a killer deal if it is correct.
that is completely correct, that what I'm running....
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWRX
Well im in a predicament then...I want to keep good low-end but i love the equal-length sound much better then the stock sound.
Any recomendations for some good EL headers?
Booooo... How can you like the Honda-esque fart sound over the boxer burble?
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perret318
Booooo... How can you like the Honda-esque fart sound over the boxer burble?
It's not a boxer "burble".. it's unequal exhaust pulses. And it's not Honda-esque.
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
It's not a boxer "burble".. it's unequal exhaust pulses. And it's not Honda-esque.
OK, so it's not from the boxer design itself; it's the unequal-length headers, fine. But I stand firm on the Honda-esque-ness of the equal-length headers' sound.
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