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Old 02-04-2006, 02:03 PM   #1
Re-Volt
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 27328
Join Date: Oct 2002
Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI

Default help with knock

hello all.. i have a knock on the high rpm's which i cant get red of.
Code:
2097  -2.6 2.3  22  00    00   14.1 +33.8   10.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3
 2182  -2.6 2.4  22  00    00   14.5 +34.8   10.6 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.4
 2295  -2.4 2.4  22  00    00   14.4 +35.0    9.5 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.4
 2411  -2.4 2.5  22  00    00   14.7 +34.9   11.7 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.5
 2536  -2.2 2.5  22  00    00   14.5 +35.0   11.7 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.5
 2639  -2.0 2.6  24  00    00   14.6 +34.9   12.5 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.6
 2748  -1.8 2.6  24  00    00   14.7 +34.1   14.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.6
 2846  -1.4 2.7  25  00    00   14.4 +33.8   15.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.7
 2921  -1.2 2.7  25  10    00   14.4 +35.1   15.8 +31.2  +0.0 ECU.   2.7
 3089  -0.8 2.9  30  10    00   14.7 +35.0   16.9 +26.2  +0.0 ECU.   2.8
 3153  +0.0 2.9  29  10    00   14.0 +33.8   19.2 +24.4  +0.0 260.00 2.9
 3350  +0.6 3.0  30  10    00   13.4 +33.4   21.5 +23.1  +0.0 260.00 3.0
 3486  +1.7 3.1  31  20    00   13.9 +32.6   25.0 +21.6  +0.0 260.00 3.1
 3635  +2.7 3.2  31  30    00   12.1 +31.5   29.8 +19.5  +0.0 261.50 3.3
 3800  +3.7 3.4  31  30    00   rich +28.5   35.6 +17.1  +0.0 260.00 3.5
 3992  +5.3 3.6  30  40    00   rich +25.6   42.0 +16.6  +0.1 261.50 3.6
 4166  +6.8 3.6  25  50    00   rich +22.6   43.9 ECU.   +0.4 ECU.   3.6
 4391  +7.6 3.4  22  00    00   rich +24.6   21.9 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   3.4
 4629  +7.4 3.5  29  40    00   13.1 +27.6   37.2 +22.4  -0.3 ECU.   3.6
 4823  +7.8 3.9  87  40    00   12.1 +26.4   56.2 +23.2  -0.3 342.00 4.1
 5027  +9.6 4.2 102  70    00   rich +23.5   73.3 +24.5  +0.9 360.00 4.3
 5473 +12.3 4.3 102  90    07   rich +24.1   87.1 +20.0  +1.4 365.00 4.4
 5630 +15.3 4.3 101  90    00   rich +23.8   90.2 +19.2  +1.4 365.00 4.4
 5910 +17.2 4.3 102  90    00   rich +23.2   95.4 +23.8  +1.6 365.00 4.4
 6242 +17.0 4.3 102  90    00   rich +22.5   98.7 +24.0  +1.5 365.00 4.4
 6523 +16.4 4.4 102  80    00   rich +23.6   95.4 +24.0  +1.3 365.00 4.4
 6747 +16.4 4.3 101  90    00   rich +26.3   98.7 +24.0  +1.8 365.00 4.5
 6958 +15.3 4.4 101  80    00   rich +27.7   95.5 +24.3  +1.4 365.00 4.4
 6830 +14.9 4.4  74  70    11   rich +28.2   95.1 +21.0  +1.4 LCM.   3.4
 6973  +9.2 3.6   0  20    00   lean +26.5   12.8 ECU.   +0.3 LCM.   3.3
 6472  +1.9 2.5   0  10    00   24.2 +11.0   17.7 ECU.   +0.3 LCM.   2.3
 5889  -4.7 1.9   0  10    00   lean +11.1   10.7 ECU.   +0.3 LCM.   2.4
 5518 -11.4 2.1   0  10    00   24.5 +26.9    8.3 ECU.   +0.0 LCM.   1.9
 5128 -12.6 2.1   0  10    00   24.2 +27.1   11.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   1.8
 4761 -13.0 2.1   0  10    00   rich +11.1    7.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   1.7
Code:
 7107 +15.1 4.4  67  70    00   13.2 +29.1   78.2 +26.5  +1.3 LCM.   3.2
 6901  +9.0 3.8   0  20    00   13.3 +10.6   13.1 ECU.   +0.3 LCM.   3.4
 6349  +3.7 3.8  46  10    00   lean +39.4   39.5 +32.7  +0.3 LCM.   2.3
 5602  -0.6 3.8 103  10    00   lean +35.6   50.6 +33.3  +0.0 360.00 3.6
 5402  -1.8 3.8 102  20    00   16.5 +31.1   65.7 +27.0  +0.0 LCM.   4.0
 5491  +3.3 4.1 102  60    00   rich +25.9   82.8 +25.9  +0.9 LCM.   4.3
 5899  +8.4 4.2 102  80    05   rich +21.8   91.2 +19.6  +1.5 365.00 4.4
 5797 +12.9 4.3 102  80    00   rich +21.5   93.1 +19.7  +1.3 365.00 4.4
 6060 +15.7 4.3 102  90    00   rich +21.0   96.8 +20.5  +1.7 365.00 4.4
 6265 +16.4 4.3 103  90    00   rich +22.4   98.0 +24.5  +1.5 365.00 4.4
 6497 +16.1 4.3 102  80    00   rich +25.1   94.4 +24.5  +1.3 365.00 4.4
 6734 +15.3 4.4 102  80    00   rich +27.3   94.5 +25.3  +1.7 LCM.   4.4
some times it also occurs if i release the gas and press it quickly. the car is MY02 STI7 with exhaust system, downpipe, uppipe, K&N typhoon filter, hks ssqv.

any help is appreciated... thank you all in advace
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Old 02-04-2006, 02:16 PM   #2
jstbstn
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Member#: 35020
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: jameson@dalesmotorsport.com
Vehicle:
02 WRX - Stage WTF
04 WRB WRX Wagon - Stg 2+

Default

could you possibly post up your timing map, it looks like you got some jumping going on between columns that's a bit too high.
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Old 02-04-2006, 02:39 PM   #3
Re-Volt
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Member#: 27328
Join Date: Oct 2002
Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI

Default

thank you for your reply..

Code:
[-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]     [37]     [34]     [31]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]     [36]     [33]     [30]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]
   [-100]     [35]     [32]     [29]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]     [34]     [31]     [28]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [33]     [30]     [27]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [32]     [29]     [26]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]
   [-100]     [31]     [28]     [25]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]
   [-100]     [30]     [27]     [24]     [21]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]
   [-100]     [29]     [26]     [23]     [20]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]
   [-100]     [28]     [25]     [22]     [19]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]
   [-100]     [27]     [24]     [21]     [18]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]
   [-100]     [26]     [23]     [20]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]
   [-100]     [26]     [23]     [20]     [18]     [17]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]
   [-100]     [24]     [21]     [20]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]
   [-100]     [23]     [20]     [19]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [15]
   [-100]     [23]     [21]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]
   [-100]     [22]     [21]     [20]     [19]     [20]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]
   [-100]     [22]     [21]     [20]     [19]     [21]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:28 PM   #4
jstbstn
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Member#: 35020
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: jameson@dalesmotorsport.com
Vehicle:
02 WRX - Stage WTF
04 WRB WRX Wagon - Stg 2+

Default

dude, your timing map scares me!!! You want to try and keep the jump in timing between columns and within the same column to below 3 degrees, and you have jumps of 6 degrees or more in some spots which can cause massive det. I've edited your map for you and done alot of smoothing and pulled a bit of timing going into the top end to smooth the transition and the jumping down. I have not increased any timing in the top end beyond where you already had it. Feel free to try this timing map but do so at your own risk. I've also added a bit of shift knock protection for you in the 0 column, you may have to change this number to suit your car but it should be between the timing value when you shift to where it falls too in the next gear.

Code:
Timing Map
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]     [38]     [35]     [32]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]
   [-100]     [37]     [34]     [31]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]     [36]     [33]     [30]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]
   [-100]     [35]     [32]     [29]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]     [34]     [31]     [28]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]     [33]     [30]     [27]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]
   [-100]     [32]     [29]     [26]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]
   [-100]     [31]     [28]     [25]     [22]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]
   [-100]     [30]     [27]     [24]     [21]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [14]
   [-100]     [29]     [26]     [23]     [20]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [14]
   [-100]     [28]     [25]     [22]     [19]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [14]
   [-100]     [27]     [24]     [21]     [18]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [14]
   [-100]     [26]     [23]     [21]     [18]     [17]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [14]
   [-100]     [25]     [22]     [21]     [18]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [15]
   [-100]     [24]     [21]     [21]     [19]     [18]     [17]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [16]
   [-100]     [23]     [22]     [21]     [19]     [19]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]
   [-100]     [23]     [22]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [18]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [17]
     [21]     [23]     [22]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]
     [21]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [22]     [22]     [21]     [21]     [21]     [21]     [21]
     [21]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]
     [21]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [23]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [22]
     [21]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]
     [21]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]
     [21]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]
     [21]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
     [21]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
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Old 02-04-2006, 10:00 PM   #5
BigBoosting
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Default

holy crap

a 6 degree jump is asking for problems
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:06 AM   #6
jstbstn
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Member#: 35020
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: jameson@dalesmotorsport.com
Vehicle:
02 WRX - Stage WTF
04 WRB WRX Wagon - Stg 2+

Default

there's an 8 degree jump in a couple spots too!!!
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Old 02-05-2006, 05:06 AM   #7
Re-Volt
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Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI

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thank you all.. i will try the timing map you edited and keep you posted..
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Old 02-06-2006, 03:49 AM   #8
Re-Volt
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2006 WRX STI

Default

hello.. better i guess and less knocks but there is still some..
Code:
3468  -4.5 2.6  18  00    00   15.2 +40.6   13.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.6
 3501  -4.3 2.6  19  00    00   14.4 +40.5   13.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.7
 3635  -3.6 2.9  33  10    00   14.1 +36.6   18.1 +25.7  +0.0 271.00 3.0
 3724  -2.4 3.1  44  10    00   14.3 +34.1   23.1 +25.3  +0.0 293.00 3.1
 3858  -0.6 3.2  44  10    00   13.9 +32.0   28.6 +22.1  +0.0 293.00 3.3
 3972  +1.7 3.4  46  30    00   rich +30.6   33.5 +21.0  +0.0 297.00 3.5
 4177  +4.1 3.6  52  40    00   rich +24.9   50.0 +18.9  +0.1 308.00 3.8
 4438  +7.6 4.0  67  60    00   rich +19.6   64.3 +17.4  +0.8 330.50 4.0
 4761 +10.8 4.1  83  80    00   rich +22.2   77.9 +19.3  +1.0 353.00 4.1
 5216 +14.1 4.1  96  90    00   rich +24.2   84.6 +21.8  +1.3 360.00 4.3
 5341 +16.4 4.2 100  90    00   rich +24.3   88.3 +22.0  +1.4 375.00 4.3
 5767 +17.8 4.3 102 100    00   rich +23.5   88.9 +23.0  +1.5 375.00 4.3
 5817 +17.6 4.3 102  90    03   rich +23.1   93.2 +19.0  +1.4 375.00 4.4
 6082 +17.2 4.3 103  80    00   rich +22.3   92.8 +19.5  +1.5 375.00 4.4
 6373 +16.6 4.3 102  80    00   rich +24.3   96.6 +23.6  +1.4 375.00 4.4
 6523 +15.5 4.3 102  80    00   rich +26.0   95.4 +24.2  +1.4 375.00 4.4
 6816 +14.9 4.3 102  80    00   rich +27.7   93.8 +25.3  +1.6 375.00 4.4
 7002 +14.3 4.3 102  70    00   rich +29.2   94.1 +25.5  +1.4 375.00 4.4
 6944 +11.5 2.4   0  50    00   12.4 +10.9   32.8 +20.5  +1.3 LCM.   2.3
 6497  +4.9 2.3   0  10    00   lean +26.8   18.9 +20.5  +0.3 LCM.   2.0
 5963  +0.4 3.7  84  10    00   lean +36.5   54.0 +25.8  +0.3 LCM.   3.7
 5509  -1.6 3.8  97  10    00   lean +32.3   64.4 +23.7  +0.2 LCM.   4.0
 5509  +0.2 4.1 100  40    00   12.2 +26.2   78.3 +22.6  -0.1 375.00 4.2
 5583  +7.0 4.3 100  70    00   rich +21.8   87.3 +20.0  +1.3 375.00 4.3
 5767 +12.3 4.3 100  90    04   rich +21.8   94.1 +18.5  +1.3 375.00 4.3
 5973 +15.1 4.3 100  90    00   rich +21.2   95.4 +19.2  +1.7 375.00 4.4
 6127 +16.1 4.4 100  80    00   rich +20.1   95.5 +23.5  +1.5 375.00 4.4
 6195 +16.4 4.3 100  90    00   rich +24.3   97.2 +23.5  +1.5 375.00 4.4
 6422 +16.1 4.4 100  90    00   rich +24.8   96.4 +23.5  +1.5 375.00 4.4
 6548 +15.5 4.4 100  80    00   rich +25.7   96.6 +24.0  +1.3 375.00 4.4
 6680 +15.1 4.4 100  80    00   rich +27.4   99.4 +25.3  +1.6 375.00 4.4
 6788 +14.5 4.4 102  80    00   rich +27.2   98.5 +25.5  +1.6 375.00 4.4
 6872 +13.9 4.4  97  80    00   rich +28.5   93.7 +25.5  +1.4 360.00 4.4
 7077 +13.5 4.4  96  70    03   rich +29.1   91.4 +21.5  +1.3 360.00 4.4
 7047 +13.7 4.4  44  70    00   18.4 +29.0   39.0 +21.5  +1.6 LCM.   2.4
one more thing.. i am aiming to have boost more than 20psi should i adjust that in the utec? map max value for mapping? and should i switch the fuel cut switch on the utec? some times there is a cut off.

thank you all again..
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:12 AM   #9
NavyBlueSubaru
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if you want 20psi, try a CLB value around 390-400. You are currently running 375 as you can see from your logs. To better hold boost, ramp up the CLB values in increments of 5 per each rpm row, starting around 5krpms. With this trick I can easily hold 20psi to redline.

Jeff
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Old 02-06-2006, 01:20 PM   #10
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Okay, so I took the data log you posted up and edited the timing map for you some more. I pulled a couple degrees more through the top end to hopefully eliminate the knocks completely, but you'll have to try it and let me know. As for boost I agree with Navy blue, increase the boost number in the 90 and 100 columns to 400 and then add a bit more each rpm increment to stop the taper... may take some fiddling with to get it where you want it. Also next time you post a log do you think you could post a longer pull? Like 3500 and up?

Code:
Timing Map
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
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Old 02-06-2006, 02:39 PM   #11
Freon
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What kind of gas do you have in your area? Octane? Brand? Fill out your profile, too! What car is this? Engine? Mods?

Do you have a wideband? Could just be running lean. Who knows. If you don't, I would highly suggest you get one and pick up MPS Logger so you can thread your logs.

Timing looks a tad high to me overall. +22 to +23 at 5250 or so in your 90 and 100 load columns. I think that is a tad agressive. I'm running +19.5 @ 5250 @ 100 and don't hit +23 until 6250. At 5250, I don't hit +23 until the 30% load column. I run 93 octane Shell gas.

Here's my timing map for reference:
http://freon.shackspace.com/car/ecu%...ing/timing.PNG

This is slightly out of date, but all I've really done is put "ECU" in the 10% column from 250rpm up to 3500rpm or so and made a few small tweaks here and there.
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:50 PM   #12
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hello.. the gas we have here i believe to the worse you can think of. not more than 90 or 91 i guess. i do add octane boost regularly with a valve cleaner some times. i didnt use the last timing map modification as i thought to give it another shot and reduced the gain to 45. the car was up to 22 psi in that round toke about 20 minutes with only 1 knock count. i was really happy all night untill the next morning the CEL lighted several times on third gear but i wasnt logging.

what changed in 14 hours? the weather is still cold and still under 12c.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:06 PM   #13
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Actually for logging I would suggest my own program, UTI. There is a thread in Engine Management and also my own forums which you can find the link in the nasioc thread.

Jeff
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:02 PM   #14
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it might not be so much that something changed in 14 hours... it can be as simple as the intercooler being more heat soaked or just jumping between columns in a different spot and still having too much swing in timing. I would suggest that you try the last timing map that I changed for you and see if that helps.
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:27 PM   #15
theicewall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyBlueSubaru
Actually for logging I would suggest my own program, UTI. There is a thread in Engine Management and also my own forums which you can find the link in the nasioc thread.

Jeff
Whats the name of the thread? Did you start that thread?
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