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Old 02-05-2006, 02:17 AM   #1
Lordhowe
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Default Cobb stg2 before uppipe and after dyno results

The first dyno graph was taken almost a year ago with the following power mods:
Cobb stage 2 93 octane(older map), Perrin IC hose, Snorkle elbow, K&N drop in filter, Helix downpipe, 2.5" borla catback. The ambient temp was 55 F or so.



2 days ago i went back in and have it dynoed again with the same exact mods aside from: Gutted uppipe, 3" borla hush catback, v1.30 cobb stage 2 93 octane map.



Can anyone explain to me why my car is running this rich after 4.5 grand?! It seems like it's pulling timing, but there is no audible pinging or anything. I got identical results in all 4 runs.

I just bought street tuner in hoping to lean out the mixure a little (11 A/F). can anyone shine some light on this issue?

Thank you so much ahead of time.
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:20 AM   #2
Striker13
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How long ago were the new mods added?
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:20 AM   #3
Lordhowe
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^^^ a few months ago i flashed the new stage 2 v1.30 maps, 1 month ago for the uppipe and 3" hush
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:50 AM   #4
mcowger
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What are you using to measure AFR. Seems awesully strange to have DEAD FLAT AFR curve...looks almost like a boked meter.
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Old 02-05-2006, 03:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcowger
What are you using to measure AFR. Seems awesully strange to have DEAD FLAT AFR curve...looks almost like a boked meter.

....or the low range of the gauge is 10:1
ie it is richer than 10:1 from that point on and it just shows a flat line.

Something is borked though, no doubt.
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Old 02-05-2006, 03:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
....or the low range of the gauge is 10:1
ie it is richer than 10:1 from that point on and it just shows a flat line.

Something is borked though, no doubt.
Ahhh, yeah, sounds to me like Scotty nailed it - my guess is the meter ends at 10:1 and you are going into the nines for AFR. Either way, yeah, you should be leaning it out, once, you get a meter with a better range.
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Old 02-05-2006, 03:53 AM   #7
Lordhowe
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well the dyno is at www.xcoticmotorsports.com in PA and it's the same exact dyno i went before. they always plug something under the window washer fluid canister and then a read out at the end of the tail pipes.
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:31 AM   #8
yobtah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhowe
well the dyno is at www.xcoticmotorsports.com in PA and it's the same exact dyno i went before. they always plug something under the window washer fluid canister and then a read out at the end of the tail pipes.

They're connecting a tach lead under the washer fluid reservoir... allows the dyno computer to see engine RPM. They're reading AFR with a wideband oxygen sensor at the tailpipe. A tailpipe wideband O2 sensor is common at tuning shops because it's easy to connect to basically any car.

Are you catless? If so, that could be the problem with the AFR readings... if the shop expects the O2 sensor to get readings after one or more cats, it might be calibrated for that. Without any cats cleaning the exhaust, the sensor would see richer exhaust.
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:43 AM   #9
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Start simple-

have your checked your long term (learning) fuel trim to see if something is causing the car to richen up?


Mike
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:55 AM   #10
Lordhowe
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Yobtah: I'm catless, but it seems like alot of people there are catless and they use the same wideband setup for everyone.

Crazymikie: you can please explain the long term fuel trim and how i can examine this?

Thank you
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:04 PM   #11
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I don't think the cat would affect your AFR readings that much. I've used a tailpipe WB on a dyno and then a wideband precat on my car and the biggest difference was the delay at lower rpms since the exhaust gasses had further to travel.

If you download a free logger, like from tari (tari.co.za) and go to the ecuexplorer forum. You will find the latest release there. Install that on a laptop and you can use the cable from your accessport to datalog various datapoints on your car.

I would look at the long term (learning) #1 fuel trim at idle and while doing some light driving around town. If it goes much further out than +-5%, it could be indicative of a problem. If you want to datalog, your long term, short term (correcting) fuel trims, maf voltage and rpm and send a log, I'd be happy to help you look at it.

Thanks
Mike
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:12 PM   #12
Lordhowe
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Default Af

Hi, thank you very much for your quick response.

I have admit i am a newbie when comes to tuning, and have been heavy relaying on the off the shelf maps. i will download the program and find a laptop that has a serial port on it, all laptops no longer has serial
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:29 PM   #13
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No worries.

You may be able to use a USB->serial adapter too. I have one from Radio Shack I use with my wideband I've never had problems.

Mike
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:36 PM   #14
Lordhowe
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just curious, if i were to lean it out to around 11, how much more power am i looking to gain?
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:45 PM   #15
JRSCCivic98
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It's more then likely the new AP map version you loaded up. The newer maps were made richer up top and also dialed back some of the lowend timing a little. I'm willing to bet that if you went back to the old map you were running you'd see better results... might not be as safe, but the Cobb shelf maps aren't always perfect for every car. I know of people that have had good success with the old maps while others had issues with slight det and power until going to the new maps. Anyway, look there first... that's probably your problem.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:04 PM   #16
Lordhowe
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where can i find a older version of their map?

also, can the street tuner read your factory wideband A/F?
anyone?
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:19 PM   #17
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Once you upgrade your accessport, I don't think you can go back to the older version of the maps.

You can't read the trims out with the AccessPort. It's not a logging device at all. You can read boost levels but that's about it.


Mike
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:57 PM   #18
Lordhowe
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from my understanding that the stree tuner program will actually allow you to mess with things, very similar to a protune. but i was just wondering if it has the factory wide band AF read out so i can tune it accordingly.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:11 PM   #19
JRSCCivic98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhowe
where can i find a older version of their map?
What versions were you running? Did you not save the old ones? Also, if you were just running the ones that came preloaded on the AP (when you got it, if that's what you mean by old maps), then those maps should be on the AP cd you got with the unit. More then likely the maps may be on that CD... maybe. Sucks that Cobb doesn't allow users to download archived maps... let alone upgrade the programming on the AP to no longer accept the old map format when the PTR and PTB formats came out.
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