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Old 02-08-2006, 05:46 PM   #1
WRXVT
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Default Grammar Nazi: the first person to use "begs the question" correctly wins.

Use it in a sentence... I think 99.9999% of the time "begs the question" is used incorrectly.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:47 PM   #2
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This thread begs the question, "Why am I wasting my life in Nabisco OT?"
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprezton
This thread begs the question, "Why am I wasting my life in Nabisco OT?"
wrong, you fall in the 99.99%%%
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:48 PM   #4
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isnt begging the question a logical fallicy?

meesh
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:48 PM   #5
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This would have been even better if you had spelled USE correctly in your thread title.

Which begs the question, "are you insane?"
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:49 PM   #6
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This begs the question whether these sorts of posts are a waste of space or not.


is that correct?
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:49 PM   #7
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got a logic and reasoning class this semester?
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semabe
This would have been even better if you had spelled USE correctly in your thread title.

Which begs the question, "are you insane?"

ninja edited the thread title...

but you are still wrong on the question...
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXVT
wrong, you fall in the 99.99%%%
In which Cambodian school did you learn English?
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:50 PM   #10
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ok you guys can use google now... I've proved my point
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXVT
ninja edited the thread title...

but you are still wrong on the question...
I don't really care about that part, the ironing was perfect.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:50 PM   #12
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Your argument that "Lying is wrong because we should always tell the truth" is begging the question.

What do I win?

Quote:
This meaning of the phrase seems to have grown up because people have turned for a model to other phrases in beg, especially the well-known I beg to differ, where beg is a fossil verb that actually used to mean “humbly submit”. But the way we use beg to differ these days makes beg the question look the same as “wish to ask”. It doesn’t—or at least, it didn’t.
The original sense is of a logical fallacy, of taking for granted or assuming the thing that you are setting out to prove. To take an example, you might say that lying is wrong because we ought always to tell the truth. That’s a circular argument and makes no sense. Another instance is to argue that democracy must be the best form of government because the majority is always right. The fallacy was described by Aristotle in his book on logic in about 350BC. His Greek name for it was turned into Latin as petitio principii and then into English in 1581 as beg the question. Most of our problems arise because the person who translated it made a hash of it. The Latin might better be translated as “laying claim to the principle”.
Very often, the fact that you are using the matter to be proved as part of your argument is a good deal more subtle than in these examples. It comes across rather as an attempt to evade the issue or avoid giving a straightforward answer, making the phrase mean “avoid the question”. This meaning of the phrase is common and most authorities agree it is now part of standard English.
The meaning you give is the newest. It is gaining ground, and one or two recent dictionaries claim that it is now acceptable—the New Oxford Dictionary of English, for example, says it is “widely accepted in modern standard English”. I wouldn’t go so far myself. Because of possible confusion over what you actually mean, and inevitable condemnation from people who have taken the trouble to find out what it once did mean, it’s better avoided altogether.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:50 PM   #13
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Paranormal phenomena exist because I have had experiences that can only be described as paranormal.

Done and done.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman
Your argument that "Lying is wrong because we should always tell the truth" is begging the question.

What do I win?

winn4r!!!!!!!!!!

i wish I had a prize, but you are the ***
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
Paranormal phenomena exist because I have had experiences that can only be described as paranormal.

Done and done.
silver medal goes to you...
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:52 PM   #16
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Dangit, just missed. But I should still get a prize because I should get a prize.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
An argument that improperly assumes as true the very point the speaker is trying to argue for is said in formal logic to “beg the question.” Here is an example of a question-begging argument: “This painting is trash because it is obviously worthless.” The speaker is simply asserting the worthlessness of the work, not presenting any evidence to demonstrate that this is in fact the case. Since we never use “begs” with this odd meaning (“to improperly take for granted”) in any other phrase, many people mistakenly suppose the phrase implies something quite different: that the argument demands that a question about it be asked—raises the question. If you’re not comfortable with formal terms of logic, it’s best to stay away from this phrase, or risk embarrassing yourself.
Quote:
An argument that improperly assumes as true the very point the speaker is trying to argue for is said in formal logic to “beg the question.” Here is an example of a question-begging argument: “This painting is trash because it is obviously worthless.” The speaker is simply asserting the worthlessness of the work, not presenting any evidence to demonstrate that this is in fact the case. Since we never use “begs” with this odd meaning (“to improperly take for granted”) in any other phrase, many people mistakenly suppose the phrase implies something quite different: that the argument demands that a question about it be asked—raises the question. If you’re not comfortable with formal terms of logic, it’s best to stay away from this phrase, or risk embarrassing yourself.
What part of my quote wasn't clear that I have no doubt I'm wasting my life in Nabisco?
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprezton
This thread begs the question, "Why am I wasting my life in Nabisco OT?"
he was correct...and I will reference the site which was posted 3 threads down from this one

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beg_the_question

you asked people to use 'begs the question' in a sentence...not make a question begging argument.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:58 PM   #19
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The fact that this has nothing to do with grammar is highly amusing to me.

You're arguing semantic, and the phrase "begs the question" being used to mean "which leads me to ask" has gained increased currency due to it's frequent use. This is how language evolves.

You'll probably learn that next semester.


-A
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElBartoRex
he was correct...and I will reference the site which was posted 3 threads down from this one

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beg_the_question

you asked people to use 'begs the question' in a sentence...not make a sentence that begs the question.
He asked people to use "begs the question" correctly.

From your link:
Quote:
The sense "raise a question" has come about by misunderstanding of the meaning of the expression beg the question and is considered non-standard by linguistic prescriptivists. Careful speakers and writers prefer alternative phrases such as "...which raises the question" or "...which makes you wonder".
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beg_the_question"
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gongzero
You'll probably learn that next semester.


-A
^5!
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:59 PM   #22
banman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gongzero
The fact that this has nothing to do with grammar is highly amusing to me.

You're arguing semantic, and the phrase "begs the question" being used to mean "which leads me to ask" has gained increased currency due to it's frequent use. This is how language evolves.

You'll probably learn that next semester.


-A
ITS

How do like them semantics, bitph!
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:02 PM   #23
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you guys are whiners, especially gongzero. chill out

and I've been done with college for 4 years now...
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXVT
you guys are whiners, especially gongzero. chill out

and I've been done with college for 4 years now...
If you're going to call out the grammar Nazis, be prepared to take some flak.

banman, I changed my initial sentence while posting and forgot to delete the apostrophe. Good catch and A+.


-A
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:05 PM   #25
WRXVT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gongzero
The fact that this has nothing to do with grammar is highly amusing to me.

You're arguing semantic, and the phrase "begs the question" being used to mean "which leads me to ask" has gained increased currency due to it's frequent use. This is how language evolves.

You'll probably learn that next semester.


-A

OMG I Don't know what grammar means!

Do you think my choice of thread title had anything to with the other thread with a similar title?
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