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Old 02-12-2006, 01:56 AM   #1
vipernj
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Default USDM STi shortblock with WRX heads... couple questions

so ive been debating between the EJ207 or an sti shortblock with my 205 heads. I would love the higher revving JDM motor but want the torque of a 2.5. I just have a couple questions to start off with to get me on my feet...

1. When I get the shortblock, and take the heads off my 205, should I get hem PNPed?

2. Should I do any valvetrain work while the heads are off?

3. What about STi cams, valves, etc...

4. In theory, whats the dependability of this kind of setup? Im basically going to run a GT30R on this motor in hopes of around 400whp..

5. Am I better off with the EJ207?

6. What kind of ECU would I need, I already have UTEC, but can I use my wrx ecu or do I need an sti ecu?

Thanks in advance.. Im still back and forth on this but I just need the info to point me in the right direction
Neel
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:41 AM   #2
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You can rev the EJ257 like a EJ207 with a modded crankshaft. It's the heads that preventing you from that right now. It's suggested to use shimless buckets in the heads. If you are using the stock wrx cams, no point in 8k anyways. I looked at the cost of porting my wrx heads compared to getting a set of JDM heads. I went the JDM route.
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Old 02-12-2006, 11:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjl1614
You can rev the EJ257 like a EJ207 with a modded crankshaft. It's the heads that preventing you from that right now. It's suggested to use shimless buckets in the heads. If you are using the stock wrx cams, no point in 8k anyways. I looked at the cost of porting my wrx heads compared to getting a set of JDM heads. I went the JDM route.
JDM V7 heads... are they the Big port? Also, how much did they run you?
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:52 PM   #4
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They are big port, i got them off of ebay, from a vendor on here for $1600, $400 less than he had them for on his website. Only had about 500 miles on them...work great!!
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Old 02-12-2006, 02:07 PM   #5
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yes do headwork as will be a limiting factor for both flow and RPM if you get the STi block internally balance...and if 400 whp is your goal, the green will get you there...
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Old 02-12-2006, 04:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
yes do headwork as will be a limiting factor for both flow and RPM if you get the STi block internally balance...and if 400 whp is your goal, the green will get you there...
would STi cams or other cams be a good match? If the heads are already big port, then are the valves alright? The EJ207 seems to be a good match for me, but I do want the torque of a 2.5... I was debating on just a sti motor, but I figure if im going this, i might as well do everything while the motors out. So STi shortblock, JDM V7 heads... As for using the Wrx heads, what else besides STi cams should I use?
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Old 02-12-2006, 05:11 PM   #7
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the only difference between the valves of the sti and wrx heads are the sti's have longer valves...as for the cam, I would imagine it would get you sti levels of flow...but you still don't have AVCS...
there is a thread showing the P&P'ed wrx heads out flowing the JDM heads...so...you have options...
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Old 02-12-2006, 07:09 PM   #8
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i see.. The 2.5 block should be easy to acquire.. with the wrx heads, i was planning on getting them ported and polished... I havent seen any numbers yet, but I was looking into either the Helix RNA cams/valvetrain of just keep my valvetrain and do just Sti cams. There are so many things I could do, its soo confusing!!
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #9
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400HP can be had with a STi short block and WRX heads with STi cams without any other head work. As for PNPing them remember that it is very hard for them to be 100% even flow from port to port. If you mess up a head you have to get another one then get it redone to that one. If you mess up a Ver7or8 head you just have to get another one. Not that you need to get headwork or new heads for 400 if thats all you want.
MCL
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedRydaX
400HP can be had with a STi short block and WRX heads with STi cams without any other head work. As for PNPing them remember that it is very hard for them to be 100% even flow from port to port. If you mess up a head you have to get another one then get it redone to that one. If you mess up a Ver7or8 head you just have to get another one. Not that you need to get headwork or new heads for 400 if thats all you want.
MCL
Yes, thats one of the answers I wanted. My goal is right around the 400WHP mark. I want the 207, but I want the torque of a 2.5. I am pretty positive that I am going to get a 2.5 SB and use my 205 heads with sti cams... Whats the reliability factor... I knwo thats its hard to say, but just a ballpark... Am I better off with the 207?
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:24 AM   #11
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Mine was great, till I took it out but I had a few things overlooked. Very small things that I really should have had in check, but just didn't. Also the only time I would drive mine I drove the piss out of it. The WRX is just a fun toy at this point so thats how I drive it. Mine did suck to drive in stop and go because of the huge turbo and twin plate clutch system I use. I'm guessin you have, or are getting, some kind of upgraded trans right?
MCL
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:07 AM   #12
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I too am wondering about the 2.5 short block options. I am interested in the need for an ECM upgrade besides a UTEC or AP with Street Tuner. Do you need to run a different ECM than the stock WRX because of the increase in Displacement?
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:20 PM   #13
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def need some cams if you want 400whp. i only put down 33whp on my swap with a fpgreen due to the stock wrx heads. i plan on going crower stage 2 this summer to open it up
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:26 PM   #14
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Any ECU that works for the ej20 with work for the ej257, if your just doing a shortblock swap. If you are planning STi cam you need to plug up the AVCS holes in the cams. We just drilled and taped them then installed some set screw and lock tight.
MCL

Last edited by WickedRydaX; 02-15-2006 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:54 PM   #15
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if you're looking for 400 WHP.. you should get forged pistons and rings, just get oversized valves, and some nice cams.. and that'll outflow sti head.. godspeed has great info on these..
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taeyax82
if you're looking for 400 WHP.. you should get forged pistons and rings, just get oversized valves, and some nice cams.. and that'll outflow sti head.. godspeed has great info on these..
Or just get a EJ207 and be done with it , no piston work needed, no head work needed just bolt that turbo on and go! You talk about the torque of an extra .5 liters like you will have a V8 under your hood. If the EJ257 makes 30ftlbs more then the EJ207 I would be surprised.
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
Or just get a EJ207 and be done with it , no piston work needed, no head work needed just bolt that turbo on and go! You talk about the torque of an extra .5 liters like you will have a V8 under your hood. If the EJ257 makes 30ftlbs more then the EJ207 I would be surprised.
its not just peak tq though, it will have much more bottom end, off boost torque, and quicker spool up too.
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:30 PM   #18
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IMO P&P+Cams is a waste of money when you look at the cost of V7/V8 heads. Why not start from a better base. Also with so many people making nice numbers on the stock STi block I see no point in a "built" motor. Not to mention many of the blown motors seem to be from those same "built" motors... Though I am sure thats the tuning...
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernj
so ive been debating between the EJ207 or an sti shortblock with my 205 heads. I would love the higher revving JDM motor but want the torque of a 2.5. I just have a couple questions to start off with to get me on my feet...

1. When I get the shortblock, and take the heads off my 205, should I get hem PNPed?

2. Should I do any valvetrain work while the heads are off?

3. What about STi cams, valves, etc...

4. In theory, whats the dependability of this kind of setup? Im basically going to run a GT30R on this motor in hopes of around 400whp..

5. Am I better off with the EJ207?

6. What kind of ECU would I need, I already have UTEC, but can I use my wrx ecu or do I need an sti ecu?

Thanks in advance.. Im still back and forth on this but I just need the info to point me in the right direction
Neel
Hey Neel,

We've done several of these hybrid swaps now (10+), some with the Helix Cams in the EJ205 heads.

1. I would not get them PnPed. That has a very high cost per HP ratio. There are much easier ways to get a lot more power (such as meth / alky / water injection).

2. I would do the cams if you're pulling your motor. We've seen some great results from the Helix cams and these will only shine brighter with more added mods. We hit 330WHP on our Mustang 4WD Dyno (the "heart breaker") with a small 20G and 95 octane on a EJ205. Amazingly enough, those are the same numbers we hit on a EJ257 with that same turbo. In terms of peak numbers, the 205 heads with Helix cams on a 2.0L are actually comparable to the 257 AVCS heads on a 2.5L although the 2.0L obviously lose some midrange. It's recommended that you run the Helix valve train with these cams because of the more agressive lift and duration of the cams.

3. For the price I would just run the Helix cams and valvetrain.

4. For 400 WHP (on a dynojet but not a Mustang or Dyno Dynamics), you should be fine without a built 257 SB. If you're making over 465 CHP consistantly on your 257 SB, then I would recommend a built block. Our stage 1 is built to handle 535 CHP and utilizes Wiseco pistons and coated race bearings (because those are the things most likely to fail on the 257). This will consistantly handle 400WHP on our Mustang.

5. For my money, I'd run the 257 SB w/ the 205 heads and Helix cams. When you factor in availability, cost, and torque, and daily driving, the 257 SB comes out on top in our book. Coupled that with the fact that you can keep your WRX ECU, and you already have the WRX heads, this has to be one of the best bang for the buck packages out there. However, I'm sure many people will also tell you to go with a Ver. 7 motor as that's a no lose situation also.

6. As long as you don't have AVCS heads (like the JDM STi and USDM STi come with), you can use your WRX ECU. That's another reason not to go with the EJ207. I would recommend getting rid of your UTEC and going with a reflash type technology (Cobb AP or ECUTEK) if your car is daily driven and you want the most seemless and capable EM possible.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Geoff
510-783-5300 / geoff@gruppe-s.com

Last edited by Gruppe-S; 02-27-2006 at 05:18 PM.
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