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Old 09-22-2001, 01:44 AM   #1
ImprezaWRXDriver
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Question How is the Stoptech brake kit supposed to feel?

I just had a StopTech brake kit installed on my WRX. I really like the kit a lot. I just have some questions as to whether somethings are normal or not.

Is the Brake kit supposed to squeal sometime, meaning is it supposed to make rumbling noises with minimal pressure? Is the kit supposed to feel a bit soft, with majority of the braking pressure at the bottom? It seems that light braking does not actually do anything. Does this mean that I need to rebleed the brake lines? There are also some funny noise when I make turns and when I go in reverse. Is that normal? Also, any recommendations on brake fluids? Is there any special way I am supposed to bleed the brakes, i.e. have the car running or something?

Thanks,
Gary
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Last edited by ImprezaWRXDriver; 09-22-2001 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 09-22-2001, 11:28 AM   #2
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Lightbulb Talk to Tom (aka Kartboy)

Last I spoke to Tom at carlsbad he had just installed the stopteck kit on the beast and from what he explained thier is a bit more to the installation then just installing the parts.......I think he can explain it better than me...............

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Old 09-22-2001, 11:56 AM   #3
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tom@kartboy,

Are you out there, I could use some help please.
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Old 09-22-2001, 01:15 PM   #4
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Default stoptechs

imprezawrxdriver

i have the stoptech kit on my wrx as well but do not have any of the problems that you seem to have. my brakes kick butt. but, you can't expect to just bolt-on any brake piece/system up and expect it to perform. you need to follow stoptech's explicite installation AND breakin instructions to-a-tee.

your issue of having a majority of your braking power near the bottom of your stroke & a soft pedal feel, is indicative of you still having air in your lines. usually one "round" of bleeding will not suffice. the reason is that with any brake caliper, there are tiny air bubbles that get trapped into little internal crevise's within the caliper. this happens on my bikes alot. the thing to do when ever doing brake work is to bleed the entire system (front and rears) 2-3 rounds and then drive the vehicle around for a day or so. this will jiggle all the tiny bubbles out of their little internal caves, and then, bleed the system again. i know this sounds lengthy but it works.

as for your rumbling noises, i don't know what that is. my system is rattle/rumble free. when i initiate a reverse motion of the vehicle, i do hear the pads initially shift/clink in the calipers, but this is normal. once i move forward the pads relocate themselves in the caliper in the "forward" position and all's hunky-dory again.

as for your noise when you're turning i don't know what that is... you should call stoptech on that one. ask for matt, steve or jeff. i know these guys pretty well. they used my car to tool-up off of and do all their development testing on. steve's the head engineer there.

another thing that is very critical to achieving max "bite" and braking preformance is the initial break-in procedure. make sure you do this per what's stated in the instructions. steve did the first cycle for me with me in the car and let me tell you, i had NO idea the breakin process was supposed to be as aggressive as what he did. by midway through the first breakin cycle, the brakes/pads were literally smoking/fuming. this fuming/smoking is normal. the reason for this is to drive/bake out the resins in the pad. i was getting sick from the smell. during the breakin cycle, do NOT let the car come to a complete stop WHILE keeping your foot on the pedal. this will locally deposit brake pad material on the rotor and you'll get that "warped" rotor sensation. at the end of the cycle, drive around for several minutes to let the system cool down. the second breakin cycle is just as important as the first, but, let the system cool down completely. try and do the second cycle the next day. i did the second and third cycles myself and the brakes are performing as expected. i have quiet, rattle free, firm pedal, drop-the-anchor-outboard brakes.

another thing, you did wash the protective coating off the rotors, right? after the washing and the rotors dry, the rotor should have been clean enough to where a light rust film formed. if you didn't do this, you better call stoptech.

if this didn't help and i just confused you more, i apologize. i'd suggest call those guys at stoptech up. they're a really good bunch of guys that stand behind their product 2,900,001%.

duckboy

Last edited by duckboy; 09-22-2001 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 09-22-2001, 03:56 PM   #5
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duckboy,

Yeah I just finished the first break-in. It was just the pads. I followed the instructions page by page and I even read the instructions before I even started. I will do the second and third break in later this evening. I did wash the rotors with soap and water. After the first break in, the car does feel better and all the noises that I was talking about are getting less and less.

I will be sure the bleed them a couple of more times before I run the car again to make sure I get all the bubbles out. Thanks for all your help. Would you recommend any specific type of brake fluid, i.e. Brand names. I know that I have to use DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid ratings. Thanks for you help.


Gary

PS duckboy, you the man.
I would like to hear others out there that have this kit.
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Old 09-22-2001, 04:24 PM   #6
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Yeah what Duckboy said.
i love my Stoptechs!!!
i just wish my car was here so i could use them

i used the powerbleeded from motiveproducts. that think works wonders

tom@kartboy.com
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Old 09-22-2001, 04:53 PM   #7
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What brake fluid do you guys recommend?
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Old 09-22-2001, 04:57 PM   #8
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Default brake fluid

imprezawrxdriver

glad to hear that your brakes are getting better. yeah, give it a good bleeding and see what happens. make sure you keep an eye on the fluid resevoir while bleeding. if that runs dry while bleeding, you just pushed yourself up the bung hole . keep the fluid level up.

i use Motul RBF 600 (i believe that's the exact name and you can get it any motorcycle shop). it's a DOT 4 fluid and is the same stuff i use in all my bikes as do almost all Gran Prix & World Superbike motorcycle race teams. i have never had any problems with the fluid. it used to come in a white bottle with red graphics and cap. now it comes in a grey bottle with a dark colored label. it's still called RBF600 and is the same fluid. just different packaging. all the motul bottles are nitrogen purged, so, if the shop you go to only has the older white bottle it should be ok as long as the little foil seal at the top hasn't been broken. keep in mind, brake fluid is hydroscopic (absorbs water) so once that foil seal is broken, extra fluid in the bottle with the lid tightly screwed on is probably good for about only one (1) month. after that, pitch it.

the Motul RBF600 isn't cheap. about $12-13/bottle and you'll need about 2 bottles to completely flush your system. i usually buy 3 bottles at a crack, just in case. you don't wanna be caught being short of fluid in the middle of a bleed. who knows, you might spill some...

if you do a bunch of track stuff or autocrossing, stick with a DOT 4 fluid. don't go DOT 3. i've boiled that stuff on the streets of willow once on my honda civic si. if it boils, then you'll have to go and FLUSH the entire system, again...

enjoy...

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Old 09-22-2001, 05:01 PM   #9
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Yeah what Duckboy said again
i'm using the same fluid. i used it in the racekarts for years and its all that i'll use

the new gray bottle threw me too
tom@kartboy.com
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Old 09-22-2001, 05:02 PM   #10
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Thanks duckboy .

Do you what stores might carry Motul RBF600? Is that stuff synthetic and is synthetic okay to be used?

Thanks again,
Gary

PS I was just about to go out and by some stuff.

Last edited by ImprezaWRXDriver; 09-22-2001 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 09-22-2001, 05:04 PM   #11
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You guys are the best. I am now thinking about getting a kit for my Legacy now. hehehe.

Thanks for make me more assured about what is supposed to happen tom@kartboy.
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Old 09-22-2001, 05:23 PM   #12
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i wouldnt waste my time with synth
you have to get ALL the old fluid out
not worth the little gains you might get.
like Duckboy said
most motorcycle shops have motul 600
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Old 09-22-2001, 05:24 PM   #13
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specifically in Haward Vic Hubbard on A st. will have that in stock.
tom
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Old 09-22-2001, 05:25 PM   #14
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yeah, i just go to my local motorcycle shop and pick my stuff up. don't know the specific names of any motorcycle shops where you are. almost all motorcycle shops carry the Motul RBF 600. check their parts counter/shelf where they stock all their oils, cleaning fluids... i don't think Pep Boys carries Motul. it's too expensive.

yeah, like tom@kartboy said, if you're putting DOT 4 fluid in for the first time, do a complete FLUSH of your system. for this, you'll probably need 3-4 bottles of the stuff...


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Old 09-22-2001, 07:24 PM   #15
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After running the break-in process for a second time, the brakes feel MUCH better. I am going to do a complete flush when I can find some Motul. Thank you duckboy and tom@kartboy for all your help.

Also, is the rotor supposed to wobble the steering wheel under hard braking?

Thanks you guys,
Gary
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Old 09-22-2001, 07:35 PM   #16
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glad to hear that your brakes are getting better. yeah, the second cycle did it for me too. you'll gain about another 5% or after you do the 3rd cycle. it's that second cycle that's key.

as for your steering wheel wobble, i don't wanna worry you but, that's USUALLY not too good a sign. how does the rotor surface visually look? does it look pretty uniform? is it patchy?

USUALLY, that wobble means you MIGHT have some local deposition of brake pad material on the rotors. that's what people identify as a "warped-rotor" because it feels like your rotors are warped when in reality they're not. what happens is because of the local deposition of brake pad material on the rotor, you now have a friction surface (rotor surface) with a varying friction coefficient. much like how most fwd cars transmit "torque steer" into the steering wheel when under heavy power on a slippery surface, a similar effect can be felt when braking under heavy loads. so, because your friction surface is inconsistant and the left and right rotors are mostly never turning in phase (due to steering a car around a turn), you end up experiencing a pulsing effect or left-right shimmy, into the steering wheel. you may even find it varies. some times it's a higher frequency and some times it's almost in unison. again, this is because the local deposition on both the left and right rotors are out of phase from each other. if they're in phase, you get a uniform forward-to-back pulsing of your car when braking, like something's slipping.

did you at any point, run the brakes VERY hard for several minutes and then get caught at a stop light/sign and keep pressure on your brakes for a bit of time? that's what'll cause it.

call stoptech and ask them. i don't want you to worry about something that i diagnosed incorrectly.

duckboy

Last edited by duckboy; 09-22-2001 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 09-22-2001, 08:49 PM   #17
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The rotors both look uniform and you said it right duckboy. I will call them on monday because they are not open right now. You said it right when I worked the brake hard and then came to a stoplight. Would that be a problem? There are no patches on the rotor. I will try probably do the last one tonight when it is cool.
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Old 09-23-2001, 01:40 AM   #18
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Default let me know...

imprezawrxdriver

ya', that's all it'll take to get that pad material spot-deposited on the rotor. imagine, the pad & rotor are all nice and hot (800-900 deg F) and then you suddenly stop relative movement between the two and apply high pressure, squeezing them together. something is going to get left behind and get embedded into the microstructure of the rotor material surface.

usually when i go driving hard, i usually drive around slowly for 3-5 minutes to cool the engine and brakes down before coming to a complete stop. if you absolutely must come to a complete stop, try and NOT use the brakes to hold the car in place. either do a rolling stop (don't bring the car to a complete stop) or simply stop and don't hold the brakes. or use the clutch or e-brake (e-brake only if our cars have an internal rear parking/e drum brake. do they? i don't know). best thing to do is not do any brake breaking in on busy surface streets. i usually go to deserted areas where the road's wide open.

let me know when you get an answer from stoptech. i really don't know what one would do if that kind of uneven deposition occurs. i'm kind of curious as to what the solution is. i don't think it'll lead to any sort of catastrophic failure or anything like that, but, it is worth checking on. let me know...

have a good weekend...

duckboy

Last edited by duckboy; 09-23-2001 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 09-23-2001, 01:54 AM   #19
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Will do duckboy, I will call them on monday. Have a good weekend also.

Gary
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Old 09-23-2001, 02:21 AM   #20
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Btw, is this what the bottle looks like?
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Old 09-23-2001, 12:34 PM   #21
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yup, that'd be it... i guess the label wasn't a dark color but at least i got the bottle color correct bleed away...

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Old 09-23-2001, 06:04 PM   #22
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well, i went to a couple of places today looking for motul 600 with no luck. I will probably have to order the stuff from somewhere else.
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Old 09-23-2001, 07:57 PM   #23
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Default motul

you migth wanna try and call them direct to see if they have a distributor in your area. someone must be selling it around your neck of the woods.. or maybe they can deliver/ship it themselves. sorry i don't have a link of ph # for you...

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Old 09-23-2001, 09:51 PM   #24
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That is okay duckboy, you have helped me out a great deal already. I am very thankful that you could help me. I found a place that sells the brake fluid in cases and they are in Los Angeles. I might give them a call and see if I can get any shipped out to me.
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Old 09-24-2001, 01:00 PM   #25
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duckboy,

I just called StopTech and they told me that the uneven pad deposition is just build up on the rotor. Jeff told me to just run the brakes normally for like everyday use. At some point the feeling of the rotor being "warped," will go away because part of the rotor will be slightly thicker than another part from the deposition. He told me to just run the car and eventually it will go away.

After I have ran the car some more this past weekend, the "warped" feeling is going away. Just as Jeff had said so that is one less thing on my mind right now . Also, he told me that if not all of the rust inhibitor was cleaned off, is to just run the car normally because that stuff will wear out.

I hope this is what you were looking for?

I still have not had time to bleed the brakes but after the third cycle, the brakes are much much better. And I am loving the kit more and more. I hope they make the kit for the Legacy GT.

Take care,
Gary
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