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Old 02-18-2006, 03:18 PM   #1
Remnex
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Default ECUTek - Can I have it reflashed elsewhere?

I am currently running a ECUTek reflash on a 2005 WRX with a 2.5l shortblock swap. As with any major modification, in my case a TurboXS FMIC and a Perrin CAI, I need either a tune or a reflash to match the mods. However, due to a somewhat lethargic tuning company in my area, I have not been able to get a tune let alone a reflash. It has reached the point that I am considering other options to get the ECU reflashed.

So, from here is there really any way I can call an ECUTek authorized tuning shop and buy a reflash from them to get me by until the local tuner can actually tune the car? Or am I hopelessly stuck with the initial company that reflashed my ECU?

I ddid a search and was unable to really nail down what I was looking for, so forgive if this has been covered.
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Old 02-18-2006, 04:41 PM   #2
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Once the ecu is licensed you can get it tuned at any place. The only issue is that unless the new tuner can get the map from the old tuner he will have to start from scratch. I imagine most tuners would want to start from scratch anyways.
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Old 02-18-2006, 05:19 PM   #3
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i dont know many companies that do custom mail-order tunes. Im sure its possible, but i dont know how much it will really help, if at all, since its not tuned specifically to your car. If you can find another place to do a dyno/road tune, go with that. You might have to get together a tuning day/weekend and get someone to fly to your area and bang out a few cars to cover the costs of flying them out. thats what i had to do since there is a very big lack of ecutek tuners in central FL. check your regional forums for stuff like that.
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidForce
The only issue is that unless the new tuner can get the map from the old tuner he will have to start from scratch.
So you're saying that EcuTek's software can't read the current ECU flash and load it up in the editing interface... how lame.
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Old 02-18-2006, 09:24 PM   #5
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Duh! This is how EcuTeK "prevents" stealing.
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Old 02-18-2006, 09:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
So you're saying that EcuTek's software can't read the current ECU flash and load it up in the editing interface... how lame.
Its not a flaw... its intentional.
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Old 02-19-2006, 01:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Duh! This is how EcuTeK "prevents" stealing.
What's to steal? Another tuner's tuning ability? The new tuner has already paid their license fees for the EcuTek tuning software.... so there's nothing to steal. Anyway, that's pretty lame... forcing all tuners to start from scratch on a retune for a car. No wonder there's so many quirks with some tune from certain tuners... they have no guideline to work off of except their own (sometimes flawed) tuning principals.
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Old 02-19-2006, 01:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
What's to steal? Another tuner's tuning ability?
basically
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:14 PM   #9
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RalliSpec did the initial tune on my uber hybrid.. it took them many many hours to get it tuned well enough for motor break in. Then I took the car to Xotic Motorsports.. and Andy had to start from scratch - which meant it took him hours and hours to get my '04 tuned properly. Both shops had to bother the guys at EcuTek 'cause my ECU was being stupid.

The ability to not access the current map loaded into the ECU is a pain in the ass and stupid. The only person getting screwed is the car owner - not the tuner - since it'll take even longer to tune an already tuned car.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
What's to steal? Another tuner's tuning ability? The new tuner has already paid their license fees for the EcuTek tuning software.... so there's nothing to steal. Anyway, that's pretty lame... forcing all tuners to start from scratch on a retune for a car. No wonder there's so many quirks with some tune from certain tuners... they have no guideline to work off of except their own (sometimes flawed) tuning principals.
This is how you can tell who actually knows how to tune versus the millions of people that say they know how to tune. If everyone knew how to tune then they would be doing it themselves and we would see 10 second 1/4 miles all day long.

The only flaw in the system is the end user actually thinks they know how to tune.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
This is how you can tell who actually knows how to tune versus the millions of people that say they know how to tune. If everyone knew how to tune then they would be doing it themselves and we would see 10 second 1/4 miles all day long.

The only flaw in the system is the end user actually thinks they know how to tune.

and that the consumer has to pay $360 everytime they need a tune from someone else. If you have to start from scratch then your wasting about 2 hours of tuning which is expensive if you do it alot. Only way to avoid it is to go to the same place everytime, and thats not always possible.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:11 PM   #12
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EcuTek is the only company that does this.. I'll say it again, the only person getting screwed is the car owner - not the tuner - I own the tune! I paid for the tune and I can't access it?!? Give me a break. Tunes are NOT proprietary - they belong to the owner of the car.
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Old 03-12-2006, 12:19 AM   #13
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You might want to check out the new dyno in Portland
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
EcuTek is the only company that does this.. I'll say it again, the only person getting screwed is the car owner - not the tuner - I own the tune! I paid for the tune and I can't access it?!? Give me a break. Tunes are NOT proprietary - they belong to the owner of the car.
I think ProTuner acts the same way- one ProTuner cannot open another ProTuner's maps. I could be wrong though. I understand why this is- one must protect their IP if they want to be able to continue making money from it.

I guess it's like buying software for a computer- you buy the ability to use the compiled software. You don't get the ability to get the source code and necessarily customize the software to your liking. It's the same thing with the tune- you get to use the tune on your car, but you don't necessarily have access to it.

It's the model the business has taken.

Mike
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Old 03-12-2006, 01:15 PM   #15
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decent analogy, but when you pay hundreds of dollars for adobe or microsoft, you get free updates, no such luck with ecutek.

i understand it in a tuners standpoint, but one would think ecutek would be more interested in the consumer.
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie
..you get to use the tune on your car, but you don't necessarily have access to it.
But ANYONE can view your timing, A/F, and boost.. and that's the tune. The tune can be duplicated but it takes time - which is what happens to you and I when we want our maps adjusted. If PDX, GodSpeed, or any of the other EcuTek masters roll into my area for a dyno day I'd like to have them fiddle with my map, but they can't. Here's the best part - my original map came from Godspeed via Ben at EcuTek when RalliSpec had issues scaling the modded injectors to the big MAF - yet Godspeed would still have to start from scratch instead of accessing HIS tune that was modified by RalliSpec.
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:09 PM   #17
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how was Rallispec able to modify Godspeeds tune?
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:50 PM   #18
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Dave at RalliSpec was having problems with my particular ECU ('04 WRX) along with it's hybrid attributes. The CL/OL delay, big MAF, and modded stock injectors threw him for a loop. RalliSpec contacted Ben and told him the issue - Ben emailed RalliSpec a map they have on hand as a starting point for cars with the Perrin Big MAF and modded injectors. Of course it took additional tuning - but it worked as a "shelf map".

After the motor was broken in, I took the car to Xotic Motorsports not knowing a different tuner couldn't access the current map. Andy ran into similar issues - I left the car with him for a week and rented a car since I was almost 200 miles from his shop (he's the closest EcuTek tuner to me with a dyno). The dyno plot (wastegate pressure) that RalliSpec did looked IDENTICAL to Andy's.. of course it took him several hours to get there on his own.
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Old 03-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
But ANYONE can view your timing, A/F, and boost.. and that's the tune. The tune can be duplicated but it takes time - which is what happens to you and I when we want our maps adjusted. If PDX, GodSpeed, or any of the other EcuTek masters roll into my area for a dyno day I'd like to have them fiddle with my map, but they can't. Here's the best part - my original map came from Godspeed via Ben at EcuTek when RalliSpec had issues scaling the modded injectors to the big MAF - yet Godspeed would still have to start from scratch instead of accessing HIS tune that was modified by RalliSpec.
Well if you wanted to duplicate the whole tune, not just WOT values for AFRs, timing, and boost, I think it would take a considerable amount of logging. It could be done, but I think it would take a little more time than most people expect. I actually wrote a program that would takes sets of logs and try to reconstruct maps from them- it's not as easy as you would think since different throttle tranisitions can affect different combinations of load/rpm, so it's not something that can be done automatically.

I'm not sure how I feel about different people not being able to modify one anothers' maps- on one hand, you are paying for a service and if you don't allow for some form of protection of IP, then different tuners really can't differentiate themselves. On the other hand, like you said, you are paying for the tune, so why can't you have access to it.

It does suck that you had to pay to have the car retuned multiple times, though.


Mike
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
This is how you can tell who actually knows how to tune versus the millions of people that say they know how to tune. If everyone knew how to tune then they would be doing it themselves and we would see 10 second 1/4 miles all day long.

The only flaw in the system is the end user actually thinks they know how to tune.
lol, because only i-speed knows how to tune cars.
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:58 PM   #21
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I know a number of tuners now that are moving towards the OpenECU tools because of this issue. When someone brings in a car tuned somewhere else to be fixed / upgraded, they can see exactly how the car is tuned currently, and make changes from there with out wasting their time / customer's money.

Colby

Last edited by colby; 03-14-2006 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colby
I know a number of tuners now that are moving towards the OpenECU tools because of this issue. When someone brings in a car tuned somewhere else to be fixed / upgraded, they can see exactly how the car is tuned currently, and make changes from there with out wastint their time / customer's money.

Colby
Makes perfect sense to me! OpenSource, just like most of Linux. I've nothing against protecting intellectual property, but I certainly question the validity that suggests it rightfully belongs to the tuner.....

Jeff
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Old 03-17-2006, 12:38 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colby
I know a number of tuners now that are moving towards the OpenECU tools because of this issue. When someone brings in a car tuned somewhere else to be fixed / upgraded, they can see exactly how the car is tuned currently, and make changes from there with out wasting their time / customer's money.

Colby
Who says that current map in the car is even any good? The reason the customer came to another tuner in the first place was because there was a problem with the tune. So wouldn't that suggest there is a problem with the map?

A good professional tuner will more than likely have a better map to start with instead of the one in the ECU. So to start with a poor map and fix everything in it would actually take longer and cost the customer more money.

But someone that doesn't really know what there doing will have access to a base map to start with to make tuning faster for them. Sounds good to me...
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Old 03-17-2006, 06:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canosardines
A good professional tuner will more than likely have a better map to start with instead of the one in the ECU. So to start with a poor map and fix everything in it would actually take longer and cost the customer more money..
That's not correct. There are several different ECU's for each model year of the WRX (regarding EcuTek reflashing). Maps are not inter-flashable between ECU's - but many tuners will have "base" maps if they've tuned enough cars with those set-ups and ECU's. i.e., the tuner as tuned so many 02-03 WRX's with Pinks, vf34, TMIC, TBE, etc.. that the tuner with have a map he could use to begin with. But he WON'T have a map for an '03 with a 2.5liter, big MAF, FMIC, gt35, and Denso 740cc injectors, and meth injection. Now he has to start from scratch. These setups are becoming more and more popular - but not popular enough to start a collection of "base" maps - there are simply too many options for our cars now.
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:12 PM   #25
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not to mention that you dont always go to a new tuner because the previous was bad. you could have updated your car and needed a new tune and seeing no one in your area you have to either go to them or bring them to you and its not always possible to get the same tuner. if i needed a retune and couldnt fly the original tuner in, id have to get a dyno day going most likely, or hop in on one and theres a possibility it wont be the same tuner.
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