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Old 02-23-2006, 06:49 PM   #1
spmclaugh
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Default Whiteline lateral links - front/back question

Hi. I'm just finishing up installing some Whiteline lateral links on my 2004 RS. I got the KTA 109 - "4x complete arms - sedan". For the arms that hook to the swaybar endlinks, it's obvious that they are the rear links, and it's obvious which one is left/right. But for the front links, does it matter which side faces the wheel, and which side faces inwards towards the center of the car? They looked completely symettric to me... I've read in another post that the STOCK links have a little "nipple" to indicate the inner (diff) side. But what about the Whiteline ones? Does it even matter anyways?

Thanks

sean
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:18 PM   #2
BIGSKYWRX
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Look close- the outer bushings should be a larger hole (this is the one the big, long bolt goes through)- the inners will have a smaller diamter hole.
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:37 PM   #3
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correct! the holes are different sizes.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:31 AM   #4
spmclaugh
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Ah, thanks. Looks like one is 12mm ID and one is 14mm ID. Incidently, I just checked Whiteline's web site and found the manual (I checked before I posted, but it's labelled under the "fitting" section as "Code# 239 Subaru rear adjustable trailing arm kit", when in fact it is a lateral arm kit)... Another thing they mentioned on their web site is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteline Web site
In summary, the number one rule with poly is do NOT over tighten and use plenty of grease when fitting.
I tightened up to 100 ft-lbs, as the original Subaru parts require per the manual. Hopefully that will be OK... ? Do any of you own poly bushes, and do you use a certain type of grease? I should probably do that now, while everything is off... After all the time my car has been down since I hit tagged a curb, I don't want to see it back on jack stands for a long time...

thanks
sean

EDIT: One other thing that wasn't in the manual is what size wrench(es) to use to adjust them. I don't have my complete set of tools with me here, so I can't just do trial/error, have to go out and buy them. This seems like a good use for a flare/crow's foot/split box wrench... If I can find them in the size I need.

Last edited by spmclaugh; 02-24-2006 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 02-24-2006, 12:45 PM   #5
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Well I was feeling impatient so I took one of the links back off my car and brought it to the hardware store with me. In retrospect, I probably should have just bought 2 adjustable wrenches, but I generally like having the right tool, I kinda have a thing against the adjustable ones not fitting as tight...

Anyway the "nut" or whatever you want to call it in the middle is 22mm. The other one is between 24mm and 30mm, the little local store didn't have anything between those sizes in metric. It's just a tiny bit less than 1-1/8". I ended up just getting a big adjustable wrench, even though I don't like em.

Anyways check out the pic of the grease, maybe somebody can tell me if this is suitable... Thanks





The bottle says "Synthetic Grease with syncolon (PTFE) multi-purpose lubricant". Sorry if this is kinda a newb question, I haven't done anything like this before, and I've heard poly bushings can squeak if you don't put some type of grease on them...
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:11 PM   #6
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You should be fine with that grease. Uncle Scotty likes LPS, I use Marine Grease, stay away from lithium. Just slather it on the bushing faces and you are good to go. be careful to try to match the arm distances as close as possible. You will be adjusting your rear camber and toe with these things now so hopefully your alignment shop will know how to work these.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie
You should be fine with that grease. Uncle Scotty likes LPS, I use Marine Grease, stay away from lithium. Just slather it on the bushing faces and you are good to go. be careful to try to match the arm distances as close as possible. You will be adjusting your rear camber and toe with these things now so hopefully your alignment shop will know how to work these.
Thanks re: recommendations. As far as the arm distances, I am pretty sure I'm way off already. I'm going to jack it up again tomorrow afternoon and align it just enough to be visibly OK, then take it straight to a shop. Still haven't picked out where I'm taking it, but I'm going to call a whole bunch of places and find one that sounds like they know how these work. PS - If anyone has a recommendation for an alignment shop in the northeastern/centeral CT area, please let me know!
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Old 02-25-2006, 12:09 AM   #8
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...you could estimate by using the stock links.... measure them and use that for length for the Whiteline ones.....being 'off' by a bit won't kill your tires if ya get an alignment quick
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Old 02-26-2006, 06:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spmclaugh
Thanks re: recommendations. As far as the arm distances, I am pretty sure I'm way off already. I'm going to jack it up again tomorrow afternoon and align it just enough to be visibly OK, then take it straight to a shop. Still haven't picked out where I'm taking it, but I'm going to call a whole bunch of places and find one that sounds like they know how these work. PS - If anyone has a recommendation for an alignment shop in the northeastern/centeral CT area, please let me know!
Arnie - I decided to try a complete DIY alignment, as described in this thread (especially the part by GravelRash):

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=10765701

By the way, if he reads this, great post, technically good and also well-written.

Unless I feel really confident when I'm done, I'm still going to bring it to the shop, and then at the least I'll get "scored" on how well I did. And this way, I won't worry about messing up the tires/diff on the 10-15 mile drive to the place I'm going. If I drove it without doing ANYTHING, not even a visual alignment, trust me, it would do some damage. The rear end is quite visibly off right now in both camber and toe.

Anyway, I was just thinking about what you wrote in the post I quoted - I can adjust both caster AND toe with these. So one adjustment would be the DIFFERENCE between the inner/outer links (that would be toe), and the other would be the ABSOLUTE length of the links, relative to some base setting (that would be camber). Is that right? That makes adjustment SO easy, because I don't even have to loosen the toe bolt (on the inboard side of the rear lateral links). I mean, the actual measurement setups (string/bob, wheel boards, etc) will take some getting used to, but physically changing the settings will be cake. I'm definitely happy I got these.

One other question; and if the answer ends up starting a longer discussion, I'll move it to another thread. My thrust angle is definitely off at the moment, in addition to NET rear toe (which is probably off too). Like GravelRash said, I can see myself cursing a LOT if I tried the string method... tripping all over everything and trying to fine-tune everything just right. I personally prefer his idea of using a rigid piece of aluminum and setting it up along the centerline of the car, then measuring from the aluminum to the front/back of each rear wheel. I think the optical method would be a little too subjective, and plus I don't have any good binoculars, etc. Has anyone actually done it his way first hand? I was also wondering about MRF582's idea, in this post:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?p=9504384

Nobody seemed to reply as to whether this is a good method. I *think* I get what he's saying, but a picture would probably be useful. Anyway, once I get the thrust angle to 0, I think I can figure out the rest, or buy a gauge if I really get into it.
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Old 02-26-2006, 07:57 PM   #10
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Ok, this guy is my hero:

http://www.quadesl.com/miata_alignment.shtml

Comon, that is a f*ing incredible DIY setup. The idea of using water-filled tubes to level your car, that's GENIUS. Has anyone heard of that idea before? The basic principle is that no matter what the shape of the tube, or anything about its geometry, diameter, kinks in it, etc, the water will rise to the same level everywhere. I'm probably going to use 4 tubes all connected to a "hub" and do all 4 wheels at once.

And the way he described the "string" setup makes it really not sound so hard. It might be the same idea that some other people described on this forum, but the way it's written there, it sounds a lot easier than I previously thought. If that "plumb bob and dial indicator holder" seems confusing, I'm pretty sure that tan/grey-colored thing in the pics is a ruler, his camera's flash probably made it impossible to see the graduations. He's just using the bob as a more accurate alternative to placing a right-angle bracket on the floor.

If only I had a CNC mill... But honestly, he really didn't HAVE to make that custom gauge, as cool as it is. For me, the cool part is the water-based leveling idea. Then you can use a regular gauge, or plywood and fishing line + bob.
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