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Old 03-02-2006, 01:25 PM   #1
keaniegenie
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Default All Hybrid owners, please read!!!

I've been planning on a 2.5l hybrid for a while. I have some of the parts for my build. Recently, I've been offered a chance at buying a USDM Head including cams. I originally thought I had to get a EM for a STI, but found out that the Hydra I'm buying can control AVCS.

With that said. Why, if you could choose your EM from the beginning, would anybody not just get an entire STI motor instead of the block? Here's my thoughts...

an EJ205 shortblock by itself usually can be sold for around $200-$300 if working. An EJ205 head by itself can be sold for around the same. However, I haven't found a WRX complete longblock that hasn't sold for atleast double that amount. It almost seems that the extra cost of a STI head is easily recouped when you sell a complete 2.0l WRX engine. Especially since most people who are doing hybrid's have new turbo's and intercoolers.

The STI heads flow better, have better cams, and have AVCS. It seems to make sense to me. I know some people have already committed to using other EM's, but if you're willing to swap, haven't purchased one yet, or already have a Hydra, doesn't this make a ton of sense?!?!

I'm lucky enough to come across this phenomenon before I finished my swap. I hope others can use this.

Edited for wrong engine code. Sorry.
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Last edited by keaniegenie; 03-02-2006 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 03-02-2006, 01:28 PM   #2
cronic
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie
I've been planning on a 2.5l hybrid for a while. I have some of the parts for my build. Recently, I've been offered a chance at buying a USDM Head including cams. I originally thought I had to get a EM for a STI, but found out that the Hydra I'm buying can control AVCS.

With that said. Why, if you could choose your EM from the beginning, would anybody not just get an entire STI motor instead of the block? Here's my thoughts...

an EJ207 shortblock by itself usually can be sold for around $200-$300 if working. An EJ207 head by itself can be sold for around the same. However, I haven't found a WRX complete longblock that hasn't sold for atleast double that amount. It almost seems that the extra cost of a STI head is easily recouped when you sell a complete 2.0l WRX engine. Especially since most people who are doing hybrid's have new turbo's and intercoolers.

The STI heads flow better, have better cams, and have AVCS. It seems to make sense to me. I know some people have already committed to using other EM's, but if you're willing to swap, haven't purchased one yet, or already have a Hydra, doesn't this make a ton of sense?!?!

I'm lucky enough to come across this phenomenon before I finished my swap. I hope others can use this.

Show me where i can get a ej207 shortblock, or head for that price, and i will buy them right now..

Dave
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Old 03-02-2006, 01:30 PM   #3
J-Rex2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cronic
Show me where i can get a ej207 shortblock, or head for that price, and i will buy them right now..

Dave
12345
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Old 03-02-2006, 02:03 PM   #4
Gruppe-S
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Would you be willing to be our motor supplier?

No, but seriously, EJ207 heads (JDM STi) usually sell for $2000-3000 and EJ207 shortblocks usually sell for about $2000-$2500. USDM STi (257) heads are about the same while the blocks are about $1500-1800. That's why the 2.5 SB w/ WRX heads combo is so popular. I wouldn't recommend a Hydra for everyday driving (or even a track only car unless it's got a crazy motor setup).

-Geoff
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Old 03-02-2006, 02:04 PM   #5
keaniegenie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cronic
Show me where i can get a ej207 shortblock, or head for that price, and i will buy them right now..

Dave

Do you mean separately?

I browsed the "classifieds" under those terms to get an idea of a market value. Most of the time, no one responded.
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Old 03-02-2006, 02:05 PM   #6
keaniegenie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
Would you be willing to be our motor supplier?

No, but seriously, EJ207 heads (JDM STi) usually sell for $2000-3000 and EJ207 shortblocks usually sell for about $2000-$2500. USDM STi (257) heads are about the same while the blocks are about $1500-1800. That's why the 2.5 SB w/ WRX heads combo is so popular. I wouldn't recommend a Hydra for everyday driving (or even a track only car unless it's got a crazy motor setup).

-Geoff
My mistake. I'm thinking of the USDM WRX motor, not the JDM STI.

Why wouldn't you recommend a Hydra for daily driving?
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Old 03-02-2006, 02:50 PM   #7
SketchINoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie
My mistake. I'm thinking of the USDM WRX motor, not the JDM STI.

Why wouldn't you recommend a Hydra for daily driving?
hydra is a full stand alone. the stock ecu has a lot of features that are a plus.
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Old 03-02-2006, 02:54 PM   #8
Gruppe-S
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Yes, Hydra is a full standalone and will have to be set up completely. Many of the features that come preprogrammed on your factory ECU (like cold start, limp mode, etc.) will have to be tuned into the Hydra if you want them. Standalones are very expensive to tune and setup although they allow much more control than your stock ECU. If you require absolute and complete control over your motor then you need a standalone. If you drive your car every day and want a hassle free way of controlling the parameters on your ECU, go with a reflash.

Thanks,

Geoff
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:03 PM   #9
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
I wouldn't recommend a Hydra for everyday driving (or even a track only car unless it's got a crazy motor setup).
jblaine missed that memo.
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:17 PM   #10
pux888
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I use a hydra in my daily driver and it idles, runs, smoother and better than stock. I also get better gas milage.
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:35 PM   #11
Newbie Subie
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After having my ECUTEK then going to Hydra I like the Hydra better. I drive my car daily and get better gas mileage to boot. I have no problems with mine daily driving.

Does the Ecutek have its good points? Yes it does. ODBII compliant. Dealer doesnt know its there and stock like in drivability.

The Hydra however is smoother and has infinite reflash capabilities. The Ecutek does not. Easy adaptabilty to most engines. One key thing with the Hydra either know how to tune or be willing to take it to someone that knows the Hydra (Phil came to me). Not that much of an issue when you HAVE to go to a Ecutek dealer or tuner to tune it.

I dont think that you will dislike either one your best bet would be to drive one of each and see which one you like better.
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Old 03-02-2006, 05:34 PM   #12
keaniegenie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SketchINoc
hydra is a full stand alone. the stock ecu has a lot of features that are a plus.
All features of a factory, for the most part, can be programmed in. The only real loss is passing emissions without a quick swap of ecu's and injectors (most supporting vendors can do this).

By no means am I telling everybody to junk their Ecutek's, Utec's, AP's, or whatever for a Hydra. This consideration is for hybrid owners or potential hybrid owners planning on going to a 2.5l. The price of a Hydra isn't that much when you consider it doesn't need a wideband 02 sensor added (comes with), and controls the AVCS.

The point I'm trying to make(forgive me for my noob mistake on the engine code) is that a standard WRX longblock that is complete and working has enough re-sale value to compensate for the cost of getting a USDM STi head. Especially if you're upgrading your turbo and intercooler, you can sell the engine almost 100% complete.

Sure this only applies to a smaller group of people, but it's important enough to note.
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Old 03-02-2006, 07:07 PM   #13
Sparcomx
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
I wouldn't recommend a Hydra for everyday driving (or even a track only car unless it's got a crazy motor setup).

-Geoff
Man those are some strong words and as a vendor. Saying that you are hurting elements buisness. I love my hydra works better then stock and guess what saves me gas..
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:01 PM   #14
Gruppe-S
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Sorry, I didn't mean to have "strong" words. I am simply saying that I, personally, would just reflash the stock ECU with ECUTEK or an AP for a daily driver. That's my opinion. We personally love the Hydra, sell the Hydra, and have tuned many of them. In some applications, I think the Hydra is the only way to go. The implication here is that if your car is a daily driver, the motor and mods aren't too crazy. I assumed then, that you would have the necessary control with a reflash and thus, the control a standalone provides wouldn't be needed. I don't disagree with anything anyone has said here. With proper setup and tuning, a Hydra can be more streetable than a reflash with crappy tuning (or even with good tuning). Nonetheless, my previous points stand: a standalone is more difficult and more expensive to tune than a reflash. If you only need the control that a reflash offers than there is no reason to go with a standalone and the potential extra cost and time that it requires. Sorry for not being clearer.

Thanks,

Geoff
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