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Old 03-04-2006, 04:39 PM   #1
03silverscooby
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Default No2?

I'm curious to know what everyones opinion is on No2 on a wrx is..
I have built 2.0 with stock heads, Stage two..
Pros and Cons to run 75 dry?
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Old 03-04-2006, 04:50 PM   #2
Blackboxracing
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i think the overall concensus of nasioc is a dry 35 shot is the safest thing to use, with a tune of course. Just what i have heard. Since your block is built you could prob look into using more
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Old 03-04-2006, 07:30 PM   #3
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If you're going to run nitrous either run a wet kit or make sure you have an EMS that you can take full control over its activation with.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:07 PM   #4
03silverscooby
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I have unichip for tuning at the moment, although The concensus is that its archaic technology.
So would running meth/water inj. be better over all than spraying?
Why wet over dry? isn't dry safer?
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:54 PM   #5
cshepherd
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Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT an expert, but I have thoroughly researched, designed, and built my own progressively controlled water/alcohol and N2O systems.

Stay away from dry N2O systems! The problem with a dry system is you canít ensure equal N2O/fueling distribution in each cylinder; due to intake design limitations, manufacturing tolerances, and assembly variances, no two WRXs/STIs are the same. The only safe way to run a dry N2O system would be direct injection via aux injectors in the TGV body and have some sort of ultra sophisticated engine management system that would allow you to adjust fueling independently to each cylinder; that way you can tune to the inconsistencies in each intake path.

A wet N2O system is the way to go. It eliminates the problems with fuel distribution and allows for more torque/HP gains. You donít need EM and depending on what power level you are shooting for, you may not need to mess with timing either.

As far as a comparison between N2O and Water/Alcohol injection. N2O wins by a landslide; way more power per dollar spent. I use both. In fact, I challenge anyone to find a more economical performance upgrade that will give you more bang for the buck! The problem is, there is so much misinformation out there about N2O that most people donít know which way is up after listening to their fiends or reading garbage online. N2O gets a bad rep because so many idiots that canít follow instructions or donít know what they are doing have used it and blown their engine up.

This is not an advertisement, in fact Iím a little ticked at them right now, but Nitrous Express seems to have the best equipment and expertise out there. Iíve spoken to the owner and several staff members and they all know their stuff!

Thanks,
Chad

Last edited by cshepherd; 03-20-2006 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:59 AM   #6
Davenow
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remember that a 75 shot is going to yeild clsoer to 125whp on a turbo car.


Quicktime blew their built car up with a 75 shot too.


re: n20 safety and expense.
While its true that the majority of engine failures on nitrous are due to idiot users/installers, you cannot deny that there have been MANY MANY well installed, well used systems that have had engine failures. Nitrous is just SO hard on the motor.
Regardless of who installs it, and how carefull you are, if you spray, be prepared for the possible need to replace the motor. If you are not prepared to blow the motor, you shouldnt be messing with nitrous.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:21 AM   #7
cshepherd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
remember that a 75 shot is going to yeild clsoer to 125whp on a turbo car.


Quicktime blew their built car up with a 75 shot too.


re: n20 safety and expense.
While its true that the majority of engine failures on nitrous are due to idiot users/installers, you cannot deny that there have been MANY MANY well installed, well used systems that have had engine failures. Nitrous is just SO hard on the motor.
Regardless of who installs it, and how carefull you are, if you spray, be prepared for the possible need to replace the motor. If you are not prepared to blow the motor, you shouldnt be messing with nitrous.
I agree on some points, but have the opposite opinion on others. I would say that 80% of the people I have met that spray, really donít know what they are doing. That accounts for a huge amount of engine failures right there.

Here are a few thoughts on your point about engine failures from a knowledgeable user, well installed system perspective:

1) Even if the system is installed correctly, most of us are cheapskates and try to get by with the most inexpensive kit possible. For instance, many users probably donít even have a wideband O2 sensor, data logging capability, or EGT and fuel pressure gauge. How are you going to ensure youíre motor stays together without something as fundamental as those?

Additionally, most N2O systems are instant on at full power; especially with a system equipped with a purge valve. Your motor takes a tremendous hit when you add that much torque all at once. If you add 70 to 130 + ft/lbs of torque instantly any 4 cylinder motor is going to be pushed to the limit, especially if this is not your only performance upgrade. The extra expense of a progressive controller is the answer to this issue. Iíd venture to guess not many installations have progressive NO2 control. With it, you can ramp up the power more linearly to reduce the shock load your motor and drive train will experience. In fact just a few tenths of a second ramp up will have a profound effect on the longevity of your motor and drive train. Also see item #3 below.

Lastly, most N2O installations probably donít have any safety mechanisms as well. I would at least have a low fuel pressure safety cutout. If you want to spend the extra money there are also systems with knock and EGT safety cutout capabilities as well.

2) Add to that, even experienced, knowledgeable users are not always as thorough as they should be. For example, how often do users perform leak-down or compression tests prior to installing N2O. It also would not be a bad idea to periodically perform these tests after installation to ensure your motor will hold up under load.

How about using the right spark plugs? Donít know if most users take that step or not.

How about, periodic checking of the fittings and testing of your system.

How about initial cleaning of your combustion chamber to ensure you will not have any hotspots due to carbon build up. I run my water injection/alcohol as part of my daily driving to ensure a clean combustion chamber. You could also use a commercially available product to do the same thing.

3) Power causes the brain to stop functioning correctly. Most users seem to have a thirst for ever increasing amounts of power. Even a low quality NO2 will provide this power in abundance with the simple change of a jet. Therein lies the most insidious problem Ė we let the power go to our head and push the envelope a little too far. The result is a very bad day for our motor and wallet! It has nothing to do with the system; the fact that it is so easy to do is the problem.

Well, there is my two cents on the subject. It may be flawed, but at least you know where Iím coming from.

- Chad -

Last edited by cshepherd; 03-20-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:34 AM   #8
djviper
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i9m going to be using a 50 shot with a progressive controler mate, as with all mods make the engine stronger FIRST and like others have said if you cant real time monitor your afr (at the very least) dont do it!
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:31 PM   #9
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I agree with most of all of this.

The only thing that I saw that I didn't exactly agree with is the uneven burning of the N2O. Although it helps, switching to a wet kit does not cure this problem. Only a direct port system will. The cylinders that are closest to the point of injection will always have more of the mixture.

N2O is not for the begginning modder. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that didn't have a really strong understanding of what was already going on under the hood of their car. Great mod, especially for FI cars, but not for all.
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