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Old 03-09-2006, 07:28 AM   #1
99ways2die
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Question 'Anti-Theft' map took HALF the boost away?!

Hi everyone,
Before I call COBB and make a couple of unpleasant observations I come here for your wisdom.


The car: 06WRX, COBB catted DP, SPT/Bosal cat-back, K&N dropin (that's all for performance mods).
A month ago I went from Stage1 to Stage2. Flashed the new base map, did the Vish reset. I hit the target boost also instatnly and would hold it ever since.

So: for the past month or so, on stage 2, I would easily peak 2nd and 3rd gears at around .09 to .1 MPa; 4th and 5th were solild .09s anywhere above 3000-3500 RPMs.
I was happy; the car was performing as good as I would want adn expected.


Yesterday I went out to a business lunch with the CTO and he wanted to know more about the car, mods, capabilities, then the AP as well.
We did a couple of nice runs, everythign was great - as always.

We pulled up to the diner and I said "let me show you what the Anti-Theft map does. So we loaded the Theft map, did 2 failed starts and went out to eat.
Came back and unloaded the Anti-Theft map (back to "married stock").


As soon as I pulle dout of the parkign lot I knew something was weird.
Car was still warm, so after about 10 mins. I hit it again.
3rd gear peaked at .07 MPa and 4th and 5th would never go over .06!!!

Q: *** happened?!
It sure feels like ECU reset........and a bad one at that.
Does the AP always reset the ECU when you load any real time map (such as Anti-Theft) ??

I went home, then did a ECU reset, then followed with Vish reset - still at .05-.06 MPa.
I decided to reflash the base......did that without any problems.
Then warmed her up and went for a Vish again. I nailed the numbers.
Car feels better now, but it still will not go past .06 in 4th and 5th.
I toped at around .08 MPa in 3rd this morning on the way to work.


What do you guys think?
What could this be?
Conditions are/were exactly the same before and after.....and I still have a half a tank of known "good" gasonline in the car.

Any info/help will be much appreciated.
-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:57 AM   #2
yobtah
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Most Cobb "anti-theft" or "valet mode" maps turn off boost control to try to prevent abusive driving. That means the car will still make wastegate pressure of seven or eight PSI because the wastegate is simply mechanical and the ECU can't do anything about it. Sounds like you're running with no boost control and basic wastegate pressure.

Note that Cobb usually mentions turning off boost control for the maps that allow the car to move. Cobb's map notes for the '06 anti-theft map don't say anything about boost control, but it seems reasonable if the map is similar to other anti-theft or valet maps.

According to Cobb, the ECU doesn't reset when loading a new realtime map... some parameters obviously change (fuel or timing curves), but at least some learning supposedly remains.

If you're running wastegate pressure, the Vishnu reset won't help. I think either something strange happened when you did the reflash (but I'd think reflashing a good base map would correct that) or you have a different mechanical problem. You could check vacuum lines near the turbo and boost control solenoid. Usually problems like this are related to boost control vacuum lines.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:09 AM   #3
99ways2die
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yobtah
According to Cobb, the ECU doesn't reset when loading a new realtime map... some parameters obviously change (fuel or timing curves), but at least some learning supposedly remains.
That's what I thought as well...
I checked my hoses, etc last night - everything as tight as always.
Also: someone on COBB forums wrote that after using map such as the AntiTheft I should have loaded "stage2-93" and NOT the "married stock" map.
This puzzles me.

WHen I unloaded AntiTheft and went to "married stock" I checked what teh current map was-the AP said: Stage2-93 MT (ver.101)

.....why then load anything but married stock, IF stock = Stage2-93??
Am I missing somethign here?

THanks
-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:17 AM   #4
-Kevlar-
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im confused if your stage 2, why did you go to married stock? that doesnt make sense. your base should be stage 2. and dont put a realtime on top of it, unless you do valet or anti theft. then just do a reset.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:22 AM   #5
99ways2die
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.....because i was under the impression that "married stock" meant the current base map (st2-93).

Again- after doing so the AP reported that current map IS in fact Stage2-93.


Quick and simplified recap:
1. Stage2-93 base map loaded and used.
2. Anti-Theft map loaded.
3. "Married Stock" loaded.
4. COBB AP map check: "Current map: Stage2-93 MT (v101)

Went from solid 15PSI (around) boosts at no.1, to 10-11 at no.4
HOpe this clarifies it for you and make it easier to understand if you can't see exdactly what i'm talking about.

-99

Last edited by 99ways2die; 03-09-2006 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:27 AM   #6
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but if you flashed married stock realtime map it means just that. you are running married stock. the base map is still stg2 but youve put the stock map on top. do a reset and its back to normal.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:30 AM   #7
99ways2die
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Hmm....

So: even if the base map is in fact Stage2-93, once "married stock" is loaded for any reason it becomes the active map.......over the base map??
Interesting.

Now, how do we explain "the same crap" happening after an ECU rest and new base map reflash?


PS:
Believe me, i am not trying to agrue against anybody's point, just trying to understand it if in fact I AM doing somethign wrong. Otherwise I have no other way to go than to report "somethign wicked"
thnx
-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:31 AM   #8
Zumble
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Wait a minute here. You can't do any marrying and unmarrying of anything without putting the car in diagnostic mode. If you didn't connect any connectors, you didn't marry or unmarry anything. The current map option will only show the current BASEMAP. It seems you're still running a Stage 2 basemap with the valet mode realtime map. Use your AP and switch realtime map back to stage 2 and you should be fine.

Edit: You posted right before me. If you really reset the ECU then it SHOULD have cleared out any bad realtime map you had. It sounds like a mechanical problem now if that's the case.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #9
99ways2die
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Ok - seeing how this is creating a bit of confusion, I will do so - in a couple of hours.


I'll report back as soon as I get back.....so let's wait and not come up with a hundred of theories+solutions.

THank you all for suggestions and quick responses.
....till then, 99.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:35 AM   #10
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^^^^^^right did you do the test connectors and the other connector first before changing the base? if not just put the car back to stock and unmarry the AP. and start from scratch.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:35 AM   #11
99ways2die
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumble
Edit: You posted right before me. If you really reset the ECU then it SHOULD have cleared out any bad realtime map you had. It sounds like a mechanical problem now if that's the case.
....see - but: none of this was EVER an issue before i did the "anti-theft" map in the parkign lot!
...I somehow don't see the car breaking 5 secs. before the Anti-theft was loaded.
Hmmm........
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:36 AM   #12
99ways2die
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxblubayou
^^^^^^right did you do the test connectors and the other connector first before changing the base? if not just put the car back to stock and unmarry the AP. and start from scratch.
Yes.
All of my programming was done properly.

I just might take your suggestion when I get home after werk.
thnx



Also, note this:
When you load 'antitheft' or whatever other map- the AP will tell you (when checked) which map you are using......so AntiTheft then check the map and you see AntiTheft ont he screen. Same for any other, right?
Now, when i switched to "married stock" then check which map i am running, it did NOT say "stock"............it told me i am running stage2-93.

This is why it was/is my understanding that "married stock" means whatever you have as a BASE map - not anythign else.
-99

Last edited by 99ways2die; 03-09-2006 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:55 AM   #13
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it will just show your base map. no realtime map. married stock means the AP is married to that ecu and running in stock mode. good luck. let us know.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:58 AM   #14
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^%)(#$&@)%(&#


.............will do as soon as I can test it.

For now - I'm off to the conference room for a mandatory annual "Sexual Harrasment in the workplace" seminar dictated by HR!
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ways2die
^%)(#$&@)%(&#


.............will do as soon as I can test it.

For now - I'm off to the conference room for a mandatory annual "Sexual Harrasment in the workplace" seminar dictated by HR!

touch his/her ass. <------- sorry for the OT material.
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:30 AM   #16
99ways2die
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxblubayou
touch his/her ass.
.........and go to Stage 2?
LoL
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:20 PM   #17
99ways2die
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Quick update.

Went out just a sec. ago and loaded real time map (Stage 2 - 91 oct. (all i had on the AP)).
Boost DID come back.
I can now hold .1MPa in 4th and 5th with no probs.

Interesting note:
When I check "current map" on the AP it says "Stage 2 - 93 octane".

Does this mean that the AP reports only the base map, and not what's on top of it??
If that's the case, then i guess i now fully understand the issue i thought i had.
Still a bit strange arrangement if you ask me, but oh well-as long as it works i guess.

When i get home i'll add realtime Stage2-93 and load that into the car instead of st2-91, then retest.


Thank you all for promt replies and suggestions.
I'll reply again after all testing/changes are done.
-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:44 PM   #18
procirwrx
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Yeah I believe the show map function is only showing you the base map that was loaded and will not show what real-time map you have loaded.
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:49 PM   #19
99ways2die
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Correct.
Just rechecked the manual as well.
thnx
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:53 PM   #20
Snow Drift
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wow, this could of been settled in one post. You loaded the stock real time map so you boosted at stock levels. When you look at what map you have on currently it only shows base maps. Load Stage 2 real time and ull be fine.
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:59 PM   #21
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You didn't read my first post all the way through. But its all good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ways2die
Quick update.

Went out just a sec. ago and loaded real time map (Stage 2 - 91 oct. (all i had on the AP)).
Boost DID come back.
I can now hold .1MPa in 4th and 5th with no probs.

Interesting note:
When I check "current map" on the AP it says "Stage 2 - 93 octane".

Does this mean that the AP reports only the base map, and not what's on top of it??
If that's the case, then i guess i now fully understand the issue i thought i had.
Still a bit strange arrangement if you ask me, but oh well-as long as it works i guess.

When i get home i'll add realtime Stage2-93 and load that into the car instead of st2-91, then retest.


Thank you all for promt replies and suggestions.
I'll reply again after all testing/changes are done.
-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:59 PM   #22
99ways2die
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....could be.



See, here's where my confusion came from: once i unloaded anti-theft i checked what map im running and the AP told me "st2-93."
.....so there I was thinking "ok, I'm ON stage2-93, why doesn't it feel like it?"

I didn't think I had to load real-time st2-92 after anti-theft....because the AP kinda was playing trix with me. This + the fact that I actually forgot that what the AP reports is the base map only.

So: let's call this a semi-n00bish move/problem on my part.
Once again - thank you all for clarification and some good ideas.


BTW:
I took the AP to the office.
Being IT i looked at ALL of my crap and their respective power adapters - what I foudn was: Cisco VoIP ATA device with a 5V - 1A power adapter plugged into it.
I sai d "ehh-why not...." so took it out.
Looked on the sticker, and it actually came for some ZIP drive!
LOL
So I found me a serial cable with dual female connectors, plugged in teh said power adapter, then connected all this crap to my laptop.
Downloaded software and St2-93 realtime map in no-time.

....now I can test this out w/o waiting to get home!


CN of BTW:
Look around your office/server room/etc - you're sure to find the cables you need for your car!

-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:29 PM   #23
Zumble
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Careful, the original cobb power adapter says only to use the supplied one. There may be a reason for that.

You didn't load the antitheft map. The antitheft map will either let the car idle and die after 1000rpm or not start at all. It must be the stock map or the valet map. Valet map has like a 4000 rpm rev limit though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ways2die
....could be.



See, here's where my confusion came from: once i unloaded anti-theft i checked what map im running and the AP told me "st2-93."
.....so there I was thinking "ok, I'm ON stage2-93, why doesn't it feel like it?"

I didn't think I had to load real-time st2-92 after anti-theft....because the AP kinda was playing trix with me. This + the fact that I actually forgot that what the AP reports is the base map only.

So: let's call this a semi-n00bish move/problem on my part.
Once again - thank you all for clarification and some good ideas.


BTW:
I took the AP to the office.
Being IT i looked at ALL of my crap and their respective power adapters - what I foudn was: Cisco VoIP ATA device with a 5V - 1A power adapter plugged into it.
I sai d "ehh-why not...." so took it out.
Looked on the sticker, and it actually came for some ZIP drive!
LOL
So I found me a serial cable with dual female connectors, plugged in teh said power adapter, then connected all this crap to my laptop.
Downloaded software and St2-93 realtime map in no-time.

....now I can test this out w/o waiting to get home!


CN of BTW:
Look around your office/server room/etc - you're sure to find the cables you need for your car!

-99
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:37 PM   #24
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you dont have to load a real time after you load anti theft or valet. easiest thing to do is do a reset....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumble
Valet map has like a 4000 rpm rev limit though.
3800. and yes only use the supplied power adapter.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:50 PM   #25
99ways2die
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumble
Careful, the original cobb power adapter says only to use the supplied one. There may be a reason for that.
COBB uses generic power adapters.
As long as you have the RIGHT one - you're fine.
(now, not my fault people don't know which is the 'right' one)



PS:
My brand new AP showed up with a power adapter which had the connector end taped with electric tape!
Guess why.............

-99
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