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Old 04-15-2001, 10:55 PM   #1
Eriksport
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Silver, curb rash, mud

Smile Newbie looking for info on Legacy 2.5 GT sedan...

Hello all. I have joined your forum in hopes that I find the car I want. I am an active member of the neon community on Neons.org...but since my neon is going highly modded/turboed, and not going to be a daily driver, I want somthing new. I'm not big on imports...but there is somthing about the Suburu. What I want the car for, is for daily driving, I want 20-25 mpg around 25-30 freeway. Possibly some rallycross as I'm very active in Vancouver, WA with SoloII with my neons. I have hit the FAQ here a bit...I guess I'm kinda looking for support...is a 2.5 GT sedan really what I want over the SUS version of the Outback? I dont want a 2.5RS..just not big enough for me. I prefer to stay away from wagons, and I'm looking at buying in the next year or so, spending around 15K for a 97-99. All that sound about right?

Thanks in advance.

Sport Coupe Erik from neons.org...now going by Eriksport.
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Old 04-16-2001, 06:14 AM   #2
MY99 2.5GT
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You'll love the Legacy 2.5GT. This is a truly verstile car. You can set it up to be a tight turning autocrosser throw some snow tires on and go to the Rally-X. There are many N/A and forced induction options for performance upgrades. All of this and you will still be able to comfortably transport a family of 5. By the way you will notice a big difference in torque and wet weather traction in the Legacy. If you like street racing you'll love it. All four tires hook up great. No power is wasted with wheel spin.

Good Luck.
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Old 04-16-2001, 10:03 AM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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QuickSilver Metallic

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You're in the right price range, although I'll warn you now that GTs are hard to find (especially if you want a 5 speed). I live in New England, where Subarus are a dime a dozen (much like the Pacific Northwest, I would imagine), and it still took a while for me to find a 5 speed 2.5GT. I paid just under $13k for mine back in November, a '97 with 54k miles on it.

As for mileage, you'll be pushing it unless you drive like a granny. In normal mixed driving I get about 19.5-20.5mpg. On the highway I generally get 24-24.5mpg cruising at 78-82mph. I managed to pull 27.8mpg once when I was doing 65-70mph for a few hours.

I've never done rally-x, so I don't know how the GT would fair compared to a SUS. I think the GT is a cooler car though, and that's what really counts, right? I'm on my second GT and I absolutely love them.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 04-16-2001, 10:25 AM   #4
Eriksport
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you guys are awesome. I am a regular on www.neons.org 's elec. bull. boards, but in the last year, a swarm of 16 year old punks who's parents bought them their cars, joined up, and its just turning into a useless site. That mileage posted in the first response, is close, I'm basing it off my current driver, my 95 neon..getting 25 mpg around town driving it pretty hard, and best on freeway I've gotten is 35ish. My 99 neon, best freeway was 41, average about 37. Town around 26. Using that as a base, keeping in mind the suburu cars are quite a bit heavier, that mileage isnt too bad.

I appreciate the warm welcome, you guys are great.

Eriksport
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Old 04-16-2001, 10:33 AM   #5
froggert
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i've got a 97 gt with an auto, and get 18-20 mpg around town and 24-25 on the highway. subiegal may be the best one to ask about the legacy's rallycrossing capabilities, as she's had both a legacy gt and an rs.

i've seen very few sus's in this part of the country, but there may be more in your area. i wonder how many have 5 speeds, too, if that's what you're looking for.

roger
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Old 04-16-2001, 10:53 AM   #6
sybir
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Yes.

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Don't get an SUS; the suspension is not compatible with the GT, which is what legacy performance stuff is made for; aftermarket struts (kyb's, etc)will lower the car an inch, but require new rims and shorter tires to clear the spring perches (that's how the outback is raised) and then your speedo will be way off......

sorry if I wasn't clear, an SUS and an Outback have the same suspension.
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Old 04-16-2001, 02:46 PM   #7
Patrick Olsen
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1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

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The "poor" mileage is due to not only the weight (the Legacy is a pretty big car for a N/A 4 banger), but also to the AWD system. Drivetrain losses are pretty hefty - based on dyno results, it's probably about 30-35% rather than the 15-20% that a 2WD car experiences.

If you can drive stick, definitely get the 5 speed. I've only driven one automatic Legacy, and it was pretty much a dog as far as I could tell. And the 5 speed ain't exactly a rocket, so if the auto is even slower, well....

Have fun shopping!

Pat
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Old 04-16-2001, 03:49 PM   #8
gavin
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The auto is quite livable for daily driving, but definitely get 5spd, if you're planning to do any racing.

And, the strut on the OB/SUS are not horrible. It still handles better than most cars it's size/weight, but they are definitely not performance struts. I think you'd likely be happy with either the GT, or the SUS, from what you've said.

As for the maturity level on the board, the Legacy crowd is generally a bit older, so it's not as much of an issue. The Impreza side of this board can get a bit hairy, though, although not nearly as bad as some boards I've been on. The mods do a good job of cleaning things up.
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Old 04-16-2001, 05:17 PM   #9
rrubel
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Atlantic Blue Pearl

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We've got both a '96 Outback (same setup as the older SUS) and a '97 GT. Both auto, unfortunately, but I have to stick with what my wife can drive if there's a chance she'd have to drive it. Anyway, I drive the OB in a very spirited manner and find that while it's a lot better than many other cars I've driven in terms of road handling, there's a *LOT* of lean and the steering is a bit vague. The GT is a much better car, almost european (we testdrove a 3-series BMW and an Audi A4 before settling on the GT). I've taken the GT to the track and while it won't win any awards on acceleration, it will outhandle most anything on the turns (of course, the 4 2.5RS's that were there ran away from me everywhere :-(

Is the RS truly too small for you? It's got more room than a Neon, though not much. It's also a better car for track and autocross use, and there's a bit better aftermarket for it. Going from the Neon to a Legacy, you may be a bit disappointed at the lack of bolt-on options. However, for the most part what we get is top-quality and useful (less along the lines of body kits and underbody lights and more like turbochargers, underdrive pulleys, and suspension sets).

Honestly, you can't go wrong with any 2.5l Subaru as long as you stay away from the Outback-class ones.
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Old 04-16-2001, 05:41 PM   #10
nuburu2
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Just fyi, there's a 98 GT/5 speeder with 25K miles for sale in the Sacramento Bee right now for $10,750obo. 916-532-2031. Might be worth a plane ticket! I Love mine!!

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Glenn O</FONT f>
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Old 04-16-2001, 07:26 PM   #11
Legacy STi L
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Definately get the GT vs the SUS. I had a 97 OB wagon and while it is/was a very nice car for what it was designed to do it could not do the things that I wanted to do to it. The Legacy after market is there but it is way expensive compared to say...HUndA. Rims are a hassle to buy, need over 50mm off sets (to be safe) struts and springs and swaybars are easily available for the GT but again they will cost you. It is not that they are over-priced but rather the stuff tends to be top of the line equipment. With the Legs you can get everything from front spoiler lips to 3" stainless steel exhausts. It is all out there...somedays you have to look harder than others.
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Old 04-16-2001, 08:47 PM   #12
cfwdfw
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Deep Saphire Blue Sedan

Wink

Glen,

curiosity got me ... a 98 GT 5speed for that price ... went and looked it up ... hmm ... could be worth the price for the right person ... but anyone know what "smogged" refers to ... pollution control I'm sure .. but what impact does it have on performance?

I have a 97 GT 5 speed and love it ... my daughter has a 98 GT limited, auto of course, .. and would kill ... figuratively ... for mine or a 5 speed ...

for performance and driving fun ... 5 speed is the only way to go! ... when I'm through with planned mods ... I'll have an even quicker road car ..
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Old 04-16-2001, 09:42 PM   #13
Jonathan
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Quick Silver Metallic

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Quote:
As posted by Patrick Olsen
The "poor" mileage is due to not only the weight (the Legacy is a pretty big car for a N/A 4 banger), but also to the AWD system. Drivetrain losses are pretty hefty - based on dyno results, it's probably about 30-35% rather than the 15-20% that a 2WD car experiences.
This was my first reaction to the car as well. While I am sure that the Viscous coupling in the Manual AWD setup does indeed sap much of the engines power there are other factors as well:

Until recently Subarus were noted for having rather poor low-end torque, the engine on my '99 Legacy (for instance) really isn't especially powerful... until I get it up to about 4,800 RPM (between there and the 6,500 Redline its reasonably powerful).

Because of this performance characteristic, the cars gear ratios are arranged such that they maximize the engines power range. This means that the engine seems to be always working. At 60 MPH you are running about 2700 RPM, and at 80 MPH about 3500 RPM.
So while you are just cruising at highway speeds, The Subaru is running in excess of 3,000 RPM. While the boxer engine is a real jewel of an engine, at these RPM ranges it isn't going to be getting especially good fuel mileage. Also Subarus are known for a certain level of Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) that you wont find in your typical Honda Accord or Toyota Camary. This is also a direct result of how the car is geared. I for one, would be perfectly willing to accept a 'cruising' 5th gear that would knock the RPM's down by 800 to 1000 and give me a much quieter ride and much improved fuel mileage, in exchange for less power & acceleration. (If I need to accelerate I can always drop down into 3rd or 4th gear and boot it).

My understanding is that the next generation Legacy's SOHC engine produces somewhat better lower-end torque, and is therefore geared slightly better & has improved fuel mileage. (Is this correct ?)

Compared to a first generation Neon, I don't think you will have any problems with the Subarus NV&H, however !
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Old 04-16-2001, 10:25 PM   #14
Scooby2
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Eric, if you want to see my 98 2.5 GT Wagon, stop by Alpine Auto Body in Orchards and take a look. http://216.242.153.40/MembersList/Vi...?MemberID=2291


Ed
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Old 04-16-2001, 11:33 PM   #15
VOLTIS5
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dark whiteish pearly red

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am i missin out on havin an auto? well this is my first scoobie and im LOVIN IT. but with all this "get the 5 spd." im startin to regret that i got it auto then the 5spd. is there anything good with me gettin the auto if i wanna take it racing?
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Old 04-17-2001, 12:37 AM   #16
Eriksport
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Yeah..I've a friend on the east coast, a neon guy, his sister has a 2.5 GT automatic..he says, stick with the five speed..which is my preference anyways. He also told me the SUS shared Outback stats..which arent as good as the GT. I found 2 local in Portland, OR. Both 97 sedans, one white/five speed, one silver/auto, both for 11,999 "low miles" said the schmuck at the dealer when I called. Some hole in the wall lot in downtown Portland. I'm not ready to buy yet...so I'm not gunna bother going to look at those 2. I need to test drive one first anyways. Oh, and I've already talked to Subiegal via email...she is fairly local to me, and she is has been quite helpful.

Erik..I find myself checking the boards here more often in the past couple days then neons.org...hehe, wonder why? So far, no schmucks posting stupid stuff all the time. The age group for the neon world, has become a 16 year old "ricer" ( I use that term VERY loosely) punks who only want visual mods, and street racing info.

Thanks again for the info.
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Old 04-17-2001, 12:39 AM   #17
Eriksport
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Silver, curb rash, mud

Cool

Compared to a first generation Neon, I don't think you will have any problems with the Subarus NV&H, however !


out of my 2 first gen neons...both have some NVH issues...but I like it...makes me feel one with the car..and its easier to tell when somthing breaks. I will try to swing by Alpine in the morning...Ed? was it..I live out towards Camp Bonneville, about 5 miles from where you work. So another stupid newbie question...are the seats in the same location in both the wagon and sedan? This is a huge step for me to go from nothing but 2 doors, to a four door sedan...I just cant bring myself to doing a wagon. I am so wishing I had better finances right now so I could just buy one now...I mean...doesnt every 22 year old single guy need 3 cars?

Eriksport
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Old 04-17-2001, 07:01 AM   #18
nuburu2
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'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

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cfwdfw, Smogged just means the car has passed California smog testing, a requirement to change ownership.
Eriksport, The seats in the wagon and 4-door sedan are, I believe located the same way in the passenger compartment. And, this being my third Subie Wagon, I have to say there's nothing wrong with wagons! Even though my kids are grown and seldom travel with us the utility of the wagon can't be beat. In the face of the StupidUglyVehicle fad, I have most of the cargo-carrying capability while still being able to stop and corner without tipping over, and pull down 25mpg in the face of $2+/gal gas! Plus I have the advantage of better sounds from the stereo and the exhaust!

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Glenn O</FONT f>
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Old 04-17-2001, 07:20 AM   #19
Scooby2
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Amen Glen, I'll second that. Ever since I had my Accord Wagon I've loved them and the GT Wagon can't be beat for looks, they almost have that europeen sportwagon look to them and without the roof rack on mine it looks even better.

later

Ed
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Old 04-17-2001, 04:25 PM   #20
nuburu2
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'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

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ED, Actually I don't think the rack detracts from the looks much. I'm just glad I got one without the "high forehead" look taller roof! I know you new body-style guys love your cars too, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Glenn O</FONT f>
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Old 04-17-2001, 06:26 PM   #21
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Hey Voltis, don't feel too left out one of the most heavily mod'd and actually raced Legacys of this board was Subiegal's black GT. RIP. She had an auto and did fine with it. Even though she abandoned our cause for those pesky Imps her car at least is still in our hearts and prayers. JK Jamie.
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Old 04-17-2001, 11:28 PM   #22
VOLTIS5
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yeah i did see her car and now that u mention it I FELL AL OT BETTER..now if i can only make my car like hers...THANKz for makin my day STi
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