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Old 03-10-2006, 07:15 PM   #1
Coolingmist
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Default What features do you want to see in our controller software?

If anyone has any insite on what you would like our controller to support let me know. Our company has some great engineers working for us. We write the software in house so can make functionality changes.

We hear the term "smart cpu" or "smart chip", but we made the only real "smart controller". Let me give you an example of how dynamic our controller is. Last July Coolingmist decided we needed a controller...Ok, we needed the best controller a controller we can be proud of. We like to innovate. Its not enough for us to have a controller, we wanted to take the features that you need wrap them up in a cool package and then put our innovative seal on it.

We spent along time to create the controller that we have today. Last July we decided to build one, Last fall we had the prototype and by January the CM was building our units in a a high volume factory to meet our demand. About 2 weeks ago we decided it would be cool to make the unit have the ability to use the 0-5V input AND the boost source at the same time. That way you can use either boost or the 0-5V as your threshold and then vary the meth/water over the other input range.

Its a brilliant idea. But wait....we had 500 units being manufactured at the CM, how can we do that after the board has been already designed? The genius is in our board and design. While others may claim to be "digital" or have a "smart chip", ours is really a computer device. The hardware will run based on whatever our software tells it to do. What that means to you is that you will always be able to come to our site and download the latest software that may have new and interesting features. Dont want to deal with software? NO problem, the unit requires 0 configuration as its ready to go out of the box.

So if anyone has any great ideas of what you would like to see in our next software release let us know and we will see if it makes sense for us to integrate..Remember you buy a controller today, its not going to be outdated in 3 months by a new controller...all you have to do is download the new software.

having said that, let us know what you would like to see and we will look to see what we can integrate into the free software.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:24 PM   #2
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A load site based mapping control would be nice. Allow finer control over the flow than a simple ramp up progressive.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
A load site based mapping control would be nice. Allow finer control over the flow than a simple ramp up progressive.
Can you give more details? You realize that you have full control over the flow and can change the output curve using our software?



the above graph is an example of how you can change the curve, but its really infinite.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolingmist
Can you give more details? You realize that you have full control over the flow and can change the output curve using our software?



the above graph is an example of how you can change the curve, but its really infinite.
No I didnt know that

Basically what I was talking about was, well, have you seen a UTEC map? Something like that, but the above looks like it could be just as good, if you can just move the points around...
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:23 PM   #5
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What kind of user interface does it have?
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:27 PM   #6
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Its a GUI, written in Visual Studio.NET.

You can see screen prints here:

http://coolingmist.com/info.aspx?key=softwaredet
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:01 PM   #7
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Clever piece of software engineering...

Richard
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
No I didnt know that

Basically what I was talking about was, well, have you seen a UTEC map? Something like that, but the above looks like it could be just as good, if you can just move the points around...
yes, the possibilities are endless and you can see in the graph as you make changes how the plot will change.
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:16 AM   #9
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just found about this controller and it sounds great... i'm doing some more research on it now but i like what i see so far...

edit: upon further reading, i have a question... you say on the site:

"with our software you can change the values to make the flow what ever you want. You may want to make the overall flow from 1-10 more aggressive or less aggressive. Its your controller, tune it the way you want! Many features of the controller are programmable "

and also

"You can configure the software to allow the controller to let you use BOTH the 0-5V input and the Boost at the same time. You can make boost as primary input and only inject when above a certain voltage, or use voltage as primary and only inject when above a specific boost. "


those two features are more or less standard on a few configuations available. what i am looking for is true 3D mapping of flow, much like a UTEC graph or similar. you say there are other options to adjust however you want, but what exactly are they? i'm just not sure i understand all of the features of this unit.

thanks,
bryan

Last edited by Wrinkleboi; 03-15-2006 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrinkleboi
just found about this controller and it sounds great... i'm doing some more research on it now but i like what i see so far...

edit: upon further reading, i have a question... you say on the site:

"with our software you can change the values to make the flow what ever you want. You may want to make the overall flow from 1-10 more aggressive or less aggressive. Its your controller, tune it the way you want! Many features of the controller are programmable "

and also

"You can configure the software to allow the controller to let you use BOTH the 0-5V input and the Boost at the same time. You can make boost as primary input and only inject when above a certain voltage, or use voltage as primary and only inject when above a specific boost. "


those two features are more or less standard on a few configuations available. what i am looking for is true 3D mapping of flow, much like a UTEC graph or similar. you say there are other options to adjust however you want, but what exactly are they? i'm just not sure i understand all of the features of this unit.

thanks,
bryan

Just use your Utec Spare solenoid driver. The map 5 boost map becomes a 3D map for the WI.

TMS
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrinkleboi
just found about this controller and it sounds great... i'm doing some more research on it now but i like what i see so far...

edit: upon further reading, i have a question... you say on the site:

"with our software you can change the values to make the flow what ever you want. You may want to make the overall flow from 1-10 more aggressive or less aggressive. Its your controller, tune it the way you want! Many features of the controller are programmable "

and also

"You can configure the software to allow the controller to let you use BOTH the 0-5V input and the Boost at the same time. You can make boost as primary input and only inject when above a certain voltage, or use voltage as primary and only inject when above a specific boost. "


those two features are more or less standard on a few configuations available. what i am looking for is true 3D mapping of flow, much like a UTEC graph or similar. you say there are other options to adjust however you want, but what exactly are they? i'm just not sure i understand all of the features of this unit.

thanks,
bryan
Thanks for your comment. Understand that is atleast one other controller that has a 10 position tuning gain knob, but I dont know of any other controller that allows you to use the boost port and 0-5 at the same time. Infact, I am not aware of any other controller that has a 0-5V and boost port integrated into the same unit. Also, ours comes with a software package and can hook up to the computer.

You can configure the output shape of the curve, change the min and max psi, change the output % of the pump, use the special control mode, etc.

I recommend that you go on our site and download the software. You can install it and there is a help document that is included. It tells you how to configure the software and what each value will do.

thanks.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:32 PM   #12
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A RPM vs. pressure 3D map would be wonderful. This would allow you to tune based on the compressor efficiency. The air coming out of my turbo is hotter at 6500rpm @ 15psi than it is at 3000rpm and 15psi. Thus, the intercooling requirements are different. If one was to tune your standard setup to work well at 6500rpm @ 15psi, you'd be dumping more than needed at lower RPM at the same boost, and vice versa. You might be pushing 75% efficiency and 60% efficiency at the same boost pressure at different RPM.

PSI vs. airflow (MAF) or airflow vs. RPM would also work. But I tend to think PSI vs. RPM is the smartest, as it correlates strongly to how a turbo works.

Seriously, if you are looking to make a kick ass controller, this is, IMHO how it should be done. 3D maps are where its at.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadScientist
Just use your Utec Spare solenoid driver. The map 5 boost map becomes a 3D map for the WI.

TMS
I'm considering getting the $200.00 coolinmist kit and doing just this. How would you go about tuning a map for w/i? Since your running a boost map from 1-500 what values are reccommended for each load site?
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon
A RPM vs. pressure 3D map would be wonderful. This would allow you to tune based on the compressor efficiency. The air coming out of my turbo is hotter at 6500rpm @ 15psi than it is at 3000rpm and 15psi. Thus, the intercooling requirements are different. If one was to tune your standard setup to work well at 6500rpm @ 15psi, you'd be dumping more than needed at lower RPM at the same boost, and vice versa. You might be pushing 75% efficiency and 60% efficiency at the same boost pressure at different RPM.

PSI vs. airflow (MAF) or airflow vs. RPM would also work. But I tend to think PSI vs. RPM is the smartest, as it correlates strongly to how a turbo works.

Seriously, if you are looking to make a kick ass controller, this is, IMHO how it should be done. 3D maps are where its at.

i like this, sounds like a great idea
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:34 PM   #15
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I like Freon's idea of RPM vs Boost mapping.

Is there anyway you could infer RPM from the 0-5V input? For instance, my G-Tech does a very good job reading RPMs from the cigarette lighter (which is very crude). You just calibrate once for your car - the computer asks you to rev your car to 2000 RPM and hold, then it asks you to rev to 5000 RPM and hold. Based on that it calibrates the RPM from voltage in the cigarette lighter.

For $200 I'd buy it.
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klattery
I like Freon's idea of RPM vs Boost mapping.

Is there anyway you could infer RPM from the 0-5V input? For instance, my G-Tech does a very good job reading RPMs from the cigarette lighter (which is very crude). You just calibrate once for your car - the computer asks you to rev your car to 2000 RPM and hold, then it asks you to rev to 5000 RPM and hold. Based on that it calibrates the RPM from voltage in the cigarette lighter.

For $200 I'd buy it.
If we were to support something like that with our unit, it would be done correct. With methanol/water injection when your engine is possibliy relying on the accuracy of the unit. For that reason and just because we like to do things right we would use that approach. RPM is a great idea, dont get me wrong but if and when we decide to address that, we will do it the right way.

The 0-5V input will take a 0-5V signal and vary the flow. The tuning knob is in full effect using that also. At this point you would need someting to translate the signal from the Tach to a 0-5V for the controller.

Thanks.
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:44 PM   #17
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^^^^
I completely respect your decision to do it right. I'm just thinking outloud.

For clarification - can I program your controller to a specific flow percentage for a specific boost and 0-5V? So for example, at 15psi and 2V I can specify 80%, while at 15psi and 4V I can specify 90%.

If so, what resolution does the user specify and how are the numbers interpolated?
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klattery
^^^^
I completely respect your decision to do it right. I'm just thinking outloud.

For clarification - can I program your controller to a specific flow percentage for a specific boost and 0-5V? So for example, at 15psi and 2V I can specify 80%, while at 15psi and 4V I can specify 90%.

If so, what resolution does the user specify and how are the numbers interpolated?
The way the software works as programmed would be like this...

From a default you can run it off of boost or a 0-5V. To run off boost make sure the recessed toggle switch is in the left posititon. To run off 0-5V only make sure the toggle is in the right position. Hook up either the boost port or the 0-5V. Its not required to use the software for that, it will work out of the box...

Now getting 1 step closer to your question, our software will allow you to use a combination of boost and 0-5. For example, you may want to run the system off of boost, but only when you are at 2 V or above. Conversly, you may want to run off of 0-5V but only when you are at 10PSI or more. Either of the two scenerios are easily done using the software.

Your above question I can answer the following. sort of, yes and its definately possible...Ok let me explain....

By using the software graph/datalog you may be able operate scenerio that gives you the results you see above, because the actual duty cycle and plots that you can create are endless. But there may not be an interface in the software at this time to actually put those exact numbers and get your result. In otherwords, you can do it, but you would have to use trial and error to get it exactly.

The good news? This is the exact reason I asked this question and what you are asking is possible. We can write something like this into the software. Thats whats so great about our controller, someone who bought the controller a week ago can benefit from this if we decide to add it.

I dont know if this would have widespread appeal. If you need this functionality we can program you a special edition that can do just this. I will forward this to my engineering team as I think its a really cool request and there is no reason why its not do-able as we log all the data that comes into the unit from the 0-5V and the boost.
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:33 PM   #19
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Thanks for the quick response Coolingmist.

I agree with Freon that these kind of 3D maps are the best. While I think RPM and Boost would be easiest to use, I think the 0-5V and Boost would work well given that's what you have in place already.

I'd also be interested in the opinions of others like Freon who know more than I.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:03 PM   #20
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RPM vs. Load as a 3D map is obvious/ideal, just like a fuel map.

Which makes me wonder why I bought the specific kit I bought with a vari controller given that I have a Hydra with auxillary fuel map to use. My brain is mush these days
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:33 PM   #21
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Rpm vs fuel injector duty cycle would be nice, where the input is percent duty cycle to control a solenoid.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:36 PM   #22
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There are alot of great suggestions. I probably should have been more specific though. Our controller supports a boost port and 0-5V input. We can make the software map or do anything between the two. Injector duty cycle/rpm are great ideas for a controller, but will not be compatible with our controller because they do not run off a 0-5V.

We didn't mean this thread to be a "What kind of controller do you want us to build", it was directed to what would you like us to add to our software to support our controller as it has alot of capabilities that have yet to be explored.

Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:58 AM   #23
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Can you clarify a bit more?

Can you program it to allow a true 3D map based on 0-5V and the boost port? Not just two 2D trims? I.e. independent values at each intersection of given 0-5V and boost levels?

Also, can you carefully control the axis of the 0-5v input? What kind of current drain is there if I hook up my MAF to your input? Is it a consistent drain? Since MAF airflow is an exponential scale, it really need to be something like 3.8-5.0V, but more precision the higher you go. i.e. 3.8, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.85, 4.9, 4.93, 4.96, 4.98, 5.0. Also, it would be very helpful to build something into the Windows interface software to allow unit conversion. For instance, I'd like to show 4.2v as, say, 35lbs/min. I could care less if the actual controller just stores this as flat voltage level.

As I said in the other thread, I'd rather have boost vs. airflow than any other method. I really don't think RPM is needed to make it work well, even if that is the obvious choice for one axis.

If you can build the software to do 0-5v vs boost port, give plenty of control over the axis setup for the 0-5v input, give a reasonably sized map (with preference to the 0-5v input), I'd be very interested. Say, 12 columns of 0-5v with each axis column a configurable value (as above), 5-6 rows of boost, at least configurable to lowest and highest boost.

Linear interpolation between map points is also a big plus, since I think in some circumstances even a good map may have some large jumps in it. This would make up for lower map size, though if the tradeoff is large. If you are heavy on processing power but low on memory this probably makes sense from an engineering standpoint. If you've got plenty of both I'd use them. If you can do a 20x10 map, do it!
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:01 PM   #24
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Another idea would be to build a small auxillary device to convert an RPM signal to 0-5V. It would be more hardware, but I don't think it is that hard to build such a unit. There are ICs available that can convert pulse rate to analog voltage in one step with only a few other simple parts. If you can dump data out to the serial port live, you can build the Windows interface software to have a calibration function for it as well, rather than have some ridiculous QA process for the RPM convertor. Plus it would be easier to make work on a variety of cars without building many different convertors.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:35 PM   #25
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Here ya go:
The orange cells would be inputs. If it is white, it is fixed or based on other orange cells with linear interpolation (like the axes on the "getting better sytem" are just based on the other inputs), but cannot be directly changed. Note the differences, and think about what they mean. I tried to put some values into the maps that show how the power of control of the axes makes a difference in precision.
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