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Old 04-24-2006, 11:43 AM   #26
BadTrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
The 2d diagnostic system reads the incoming PWM signal from the fuel injector and compares it against the PWM signal from Aquamist piston pump. If there is any inbalance between the signals, the comparator will throw a error flag and switch the orange wire to ground.

Error detecting capabilities of the 2d are listed below:
1) Blocked jet or partically blocked jet (error detection sensitive can be increase on request)
2) Cut pipe between the HSV and jet during injection.
3) Cut pipe between the pump and HSV during non-injection period.
4) Water pressure drop during injection (caused by clogged filter)
5) Loss of system pressure during non-injection period (such as trapped air in the system)
6) Water pump failure
7) Water pump fuse blown
8) Sweat on your forehead during racing (on special request only)

Richard
--So does the system come with the forehead-mounted conductivity sensor?
--Is it able to detect the difference in post-exercise sweat as opposed to "Man, I've never raced a Cobra before!" types of sweat?
-- How does the sensor handle atypical moisture scenarios such as rain drops or soda spray on the forehead?
-- Also, what format is the detection of signal presented? Perhaps a scrotum-mounted copper wire terminating at the cathode post of the battery? that should provide enough current for a wake-up call, no?

..........................
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:29 PM   #27
ucbsti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
We have designed quite a cost effective flow sensor, signal conditioned.
0-5V output, ranger 100-450cc/min. Can be extended to 1 litre/min. when used with DDS3 (Dash Display System) flow monitor dash gauge. Suitable for water/methanol/mix.



If anyone is interested to know more, I will post more information.

Richard
Very nice

Id like to know if its integrated into the controller to make sure the system is flowing what it should be at all times
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Old 04-24-2006, 03:08 PM   #28
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadTrip
--So does the system come with the forehead-mounted conductivity sensor?
--Is it able to detect the difference in post-exercise sweat as opposed to "Man, I've never raced a Cobra before!" types of sweat?
-- How does the sensor handle atypical moisture scenarios such as rain drops or soda spray on the forehead?
-- Also, what format is the detection of signal presented? Perhaps a scrotum-mounted copper wire terminating at the cathode post of the battery? that should provide enough current for a wake-up call, no?

..........................
Sweat detecter is a good measurement of excitment, comes naturally with racing and other sports.
We intend to supply three self-tapping screws, made of 316L stainless, probably about 3" inches long. Each one to be gently inserted into each temple area, alignment is not to critical. The head of the bolt is about 2" in diamenter. This is to ensure good electrical contact between the surfaces.

Electros are connected to a calibrated resistance gauge equipped with control electronics and a high speed data logger. Test subject will be asked to run on a high speed treadmill for an hour or so. Upon completion, datas are analysed and sensors are calibrated.

We will also offer an optional single blade self-powered motorised wiper system. The third stainless bolts will be used to secure the unit in place, probably somewhere between the eyes. The wiper will automatically switch on when the sweat sensor approaches 80% full-scale, it add-on will ensure the driver has an un-impeded view of the track at all time.

We need volunteers, anyone?

ps, I consided the other options after stage one is fully tested.

Last edited by Richard L; 04-24-2006 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:30 PM   #29
614inda617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
I will try to explain how the 2d's failsafe works and now much grounds it covers.

In order to detect a flow fault in a constantly changing system, it is almost impossible using the conventional method such as a pair of pressure switches or a flow sensor.

The 2d diagnostic system reads the incoming PWM signal from the fuel injector and compares it against the PWM signal from Aquamist piston pump. If there is any inbalance between the signals, the comparator will throw a error flag and switch the orange wire to ground.

Error detecting capabilities of the 2d are listed below:
1) Blocked jet or partically blocked jet (error detection sensitive can be increase on request)
2) Cut pipe between the HSV and jet during injection.
3) Cut pipe between the pump and HSV during non-injection period.
4) Water pressure drop during injection (caused by clogged filter)
5) Loss of system pressure during non-injection period (such as trapped air in the system)
6) Water pump failure
7) Water pump fuse blown
8) Sweat on your forehead during racing (on special request only)

One thing you must do to ensure the system is in working order:
Upon turning on the ignition key, the fault led will light up for 5-10 seconds and goes out. If the led doesn't go off, the system checking routine has located a fault.

I am sorry to be a bit vague on the design of the diagnostic routine, it is one of the rare system on the market that is able to score quite well on the "failsafe" department.

The same "failsafe" circuitry is applied on our system2s as well. I hope this write-up has more or less answered your question. Please let me know if I didn't explain it well enough.


Richard
This is an excellent list. My question now is what steps should be taken if an error is detected from any of these inputs. What's are the best things to do (pull timing, +/- fuel, etc), assuming you are tuned for a 50/50 mix, to keep from losing your engine? And, given the answers to my previous question, what EM or other mechanisms should used to accomplish this in your or anyone else's opinion? Is a properly reflashed ECU good enough? Can it react quickly/aggressively enough to avoid catastrophe?

I know there are visual indicators that something is wrong with the system but that doesn't seem nearly good enough. At WOT, if something goes wrong with a setup like this, nobody has the R/T to save their engine.

I would have pulled the trigger on this already but I don't know enough about the failsafes and I've seen posts indicating that you just can't do enough to save your engine with a reflash. The most reputable local shop that seems to love WI and Meth seems to only use EcuTek and this scares me.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 614inda617
This is an excellent list. My question now is what steps should be taken if an error is detected from any of these inputs.
I'm going to wire my boost control solenoid to drop out upon error detection, droppign the boost to wastegate boost. Richard has talked me through the schematics of how to do this, and mentioned he will post a diagram on how to disengage the boost control solenoid.
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Old 04-25-2006, 06:44 PM   #31
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterforever
I'm going to wire my boost control solenoid to drop out upon error detection, droppign the boost to wastegate boost. Richard has talked me through the schematics of how to do this, and mentioned he will post a diagram on how to disengage the boost control solenoid.
This diagram is only applicable for a System2d system. The orange area is part of our wiring suggestion to the Sti boost control valve without triggering CEL activation.




Richard
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:52 PM   #32
614inda617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterforever
I'm going to wire my boost control solenoid to drop out upon error detection, droppign the boost to wastegate boost. Richard has talked me through the schematics of how to do this, and mentioned he will post a diagram on how to disengage the boost control solenoid.
This sounds like a step in the right direction.

My plans are modest for my car. Turboback, 50/50 wi/meth, and the requisite engine management. Unfortunately, with an upgraded exhaust, STi's suffer from boost creep without upgrading the wastegate in some way. Simply running wastegate boost in the case of a problem will likely be insufficient protection for my planed setup.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. What does the Boost Control Valve....control? The Waste Gate or the Blow Off Valve? Perhaps opening the blow off valve would be sufficient? Dunno.


Looking for more suggestions.
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:51 AM   #33
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 614inda617
This sounds like a step in the right direction.

My plans are modest for my car. Turboback, 50/50 wi/meth, and the requisite engine management. Unfortunately, with an upgraded exhaust, STi's suffer from boost creep without upgrading the wastegate in some way. Simply running wastegate boost in the case of a problem will likely be insufficient protection for my planed setup.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. What does the Boost Control Valve....control? The Waste Gate or the Blow Off Valve? Perhaps opening the blow off valve would be sufficient? Dunno.


Looking for more suggestions.
When a "failsafe" triggers, lowering your boost is very effective, but if you have boost creep, then you may consider dumping some extra fuel into your engine.

This can be done quite easily. Add an inline resistor to your engine coolant sensor, When the failsafe relay triggeres,to splice in the resistor and fooling the ECU in thinking that the engine is cold and adds more fuel. The amount of extra fuel added will be relative to the resistor value.

Just a suggestion. If you think this a a feasible alternative, I can post a drawing to that effect.

Richard
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Old 04-28-2006, 04:11 PM   #34
BadTrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
Sweat detecter is a good measurement of excitment, comes naturally with racing and other sports.
We intend to supply three self-tapping screws, made of 316L stainless, probably about 3" inches long. Each one to be gently inserted into each temple area, alignment is not to critical. The head of the bolt is about 2" in diamenter. This is to ensure good electrical contact between the surfaces.

Electros are connected to a calibrated resistance gauge equipped with control electronics and a high speed data logger. Test subject will be asked to run on a high speed treadmill for an hour or so. Upon completion, datas are analysed and sensors are calibrated.

We will also offer an optional single blade self-powered motorised wiper system. The third stainless bolts will be used to secure the unit in place, probably somewhere between the eyes. The wiper will automatically switch on when the sweat sensor approaches 80% full-scale, it add-on will ensure the driver has an un-impeded view of the track at all time.

We need volunteers, anyone?

ps, I consided the other options after stage one is fully tested.
ooohhhh hehehehe ooohhhohohhoooooo LOL LOL!! Thanks Richard, I needed that!
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Old 04-28-2006, 05:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
We have designed quite a cost effective flow sensor, signal conditioned.
0-5V output, ranger 100-450cc/min. Can be extended to 1 litre/min. when used with DDS3 (Dash Display System) flow monitor dash gauge. Suitable for water/methanol/mix.



If anyone is interested to know more, I will post more information.

Richard
How much is this part? And do you think it could be wired to simple flash a light when a clog is detected?
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:53 PM   #36
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadTrip
ooohhhh hehehehe ooohhhohohhoooooo LOL LOL!! Thanks Richard, I needed that!
This is good news, I wonder if I can arrange a group test session, to get a more consistant result. I will book a room in a hotel near a hospital, in case things go wrong.

Any more volunteers?
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Old 04-28-2006, 07:22 PM   #37
Richard L
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The part number for the unit is 806-428. You can find the price on the link below (no prices are allowed to be published here)
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

Answers to your next question:

The unit is a rotary flow sensor designed specially for alcohol and water use. We have spent a few years designing this little sensor. Sensor element is comprised of a "magnetic paddle wheel" and "Hall effect sensor". Rotation speed is converted into pulses, feeding into a small PIC micro for signal linearisation. Since all rotary/turbine sensors have an non-linear response.

The final analogue output is 0.5-V to 4.5V representing a flow of 50cc/min to 450cc/min. You need to make a small electronic circuit to utilised this signal for your "clog" jet detection. A small quad operational amplifier IC costing about 20 cent will be more than sufficient to make that flashing led works for detecting a clogged jet.

You can invest a bit more on purchasing the new DDS3 (dash gauge) that will do everything for you, comes with a water level sensor as well and enabling you to stretch the detection range to 1 litre a minute.

It works with any WI system



If interested, I will post more info.

Richard



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jr.
How much is this part? And do you think it could be wired to simple flash a light when a clog is detected?

Last edited by Richard L; 04-29-2006 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:52 PM   #38
BadTrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
The part number for the unit is 806-428. You can find the price on the link below (no prices are allowed to be published here)
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

............
You can invest a bit more on purchasing the new DDS3 (dash gauge) that will do everything for you, comes with a water level sensor as well and enabling you to stretch the detection range to 1 litre a minute.

It works with any WI system



If interested, I will post more info.

Richard
Now that is nice! Don't you need to do some in-car testing on east coast US? I'll nominate my special test vehicle for your inclusion in the testing.
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Old 05-03-2006, 02:55 PM   #39
Richard L
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hmmm..., not sure you want to test the "sweat detector" or the DDS3 flow monitoring system

Quote:
ooohhhh hehehehe ooohhhohohhoooooo LOL LOL!! Thanks Richard, I needed that!
If you want to test the first item, I need your head properly checked first.

Richard
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Old 05-03-2006, 03:45 PM   #40
BadTrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
hmmm..., not sure you want to test the "sweat detector" or the DDS3 flow monitoring system



If you want to test the first item, I need your head properly checked first.

Richard


I'll install some baby wipes on my goggles..........I'm talking about the flow monitor!!
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Old 05-03-2006, 05:01 PM   #41
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadTrip


I'll install some baby wipes on my goggles..........I'm talking about the flow monitor!!
Ok, ok. I have to be sure we are on the same track.

Can't promise anything, tell me a bit more of your setup (your car).

Richard
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:07 PM   #42
jaxscuby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
The part number for the unit is 806-428. You can find the price on the link below (no prices are allowed to be published here)
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

You can invest a bit more on purchasing the new DDS3 (dash gauge) that will do everything for you, comes with a water level sensor as well and enabling you to stretch the detection range to 1 litre a minute.

It works with any WI system



If interested, I will post more info.

Richard
already did east coast testing on my 02 wrx.
this gauge is very nice...
i have aquamist 2d with dds3
my car went from 240 whp & 230 ft-lbs @ 16 psi
to 275 whp & 260 ft-lbs @ 16 psi
that was my low boost setting..
my high boost is 19 psi...

great product & super tech Rep..
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:14 AM   #43
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We have made available any fittings converion for the DDS3v8 flow sensor:
1. 1/8 NPT female
2. 1/8 NPT male.
3. -4AN male
4. 1/4" flexible hose
Or anything else that is not available. We have most fitting conversions on our machines.

See example: flow gauge with -4AN fittings
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:42 AM   #44
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Labonte MotorSports has been suppling other companies with injection controllers and failsafes since 2002.
In the fall of 2007 we released the new redesign of the SafeInjeciotn we previously manufactured for sn0w performance.
The IFS-10 (Injection Fail Safe) is an easy to install water-methanol monitoring unit and is available at an unbeatable price of only $139.00


Patent Pending US60/964,199
The IFS-10 has a user adjustable trigger to set the Fail safe activation point. Also it will trigger on an overflow condition. Designed for use with 100% methanal.

Need to "Know Your Flow" Labonte MotorSports has the answer...

The IFG-20 (Injection Flow Gague) is 52mm and reads the output signal from our Injection Fail Safe to give you the only numeric volumetric guage available for water-methanol injeciotn. Capable of displaying up to 2500ml/min and has a Peak and Hold function that helps with tuning and you will always know your max injection flow.
In stock at $74.95 or $79.95 for the IFS-30 with high bright Blue LED display.

Have AN fittings...?

The Labonte MotorSports IFG-20 is the same reliable Fail Safe with 4AN fittings at the same price of $139.00
For more information visit our website under injection monitoring
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...onitoring.html

Last edited by Labonte MotorSports; 08-04-2008 at 05:36 PM. Reason: update links
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:05 PM   #45
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This is edited from a previous post.

Coolingmist has now released our CMGS system. This is the worlds first all in one progressive controller, failsafe, boost gauge and flow gauge.

You set the flow window, the boost, dutycycle or voltage threshold, set the failsafe output to be Normally open or Normally Closed.

If you notice our competitors Failsafe system you need the following:

Progressive controller
Failsafe controller
Flow Gauge

And likely you have, want or need a boost gauge.

The CMGS is all 4 of those things. Because of that it costs less, is more simple to use and more clean to install. Bezel color is available in silver, black or gun metal, LED color is red or blue. Its a 52 MM gauge and is all CNC Machined.


Last edited by Coolingmist; 11-13-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 06:29 AM   #46
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
We have made available any fittings converion for the DDS3v8 flow sensor:
1. 1/8 NPT female
2. 1/8 NPT male.
3. -4AN male
4. 1/4" flexible hose
Or anything else that is not available. We have most fitting conversions on our machines.

See example: flow gauge with -4AN fittings
We now have push-on 1/4" fitting for the DDS3 flow sensor. It will be supplied with every DDS as from middle of this month.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:48 PM   #47
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great post!!!!
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:05 PM   #48
Aquamist
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Due to constant requests for DDS3 wiring for third party WAI systems, I have attached a few library wiring diagrams. If anyone require other wiring diagrams for other systems. Also "how to" wire to MBC and EBC, please pm me.

DDS3v8 has two failsafe two output channels plus one analogue output channel to track "real-time" flow (user scaleable).



High resolution pdf download click here




High resolution pdf download click here




High resolution pdf download click here







.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:48 PM   #49
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COOLINGMIST CMGS INFORMATION
The CMGS all in one failsafe diagram is below. You may wonder why you only see the CMGS gauge and no other controller? its because the CMGS is the Failsafe, Progressive controller (as well as Flow Gauge and Boost Gauge)

If you have an ON/OFF kit you can replace your boost switch with this and get a failsafe, boost gauge, progressive controller and flow gauge with one product. if you have a system with a progressive variable controller, you can replace that controller with the CMGS. The CMGS has a boost and 0-5V input so it replaces BOOST based controllers as well as 0-5V MAF controllers.

We know that customers want a simple system that is highly configurable. We feel we designed such a system. Compare the diagram to other systems. With the ability to replace your boost gauge with the CMGS you have a simple, clean install. The only part of the failsafe you need to mount is the CMGS. The valve/filter/flow sensor will install inline. There are no other "boards" or "boxes" or "gauges" or nick knacks needed to make it work.


USER GUIDE:

STANDARD USER GUIDE

SUBARU SPECIFIC INSTALL

CMGS install guide for Subari STI/WRX


SUBARU DIAGRAM WITH FULL FAILSAFE


Last edited by Coolingmist; 11-13-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 11-14-2009, 05:31 AM   #50
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ok sorry for a noob question if it is one.. Say I am running on a track with a moderately aggressive tune using WMI and have just downshifted to 3rd and about to take a corner with rpm at 6500rpm and the WMI system fails. How fast can the failsafe react to this and in that reaction time, is there a guarantee that the engine will not be damaged at that level of engine loads? Are there numbers to prove this? The fail safe WILL work/react but the question is.. will it react in time. Because it is purely reactionary, the engine might already have catastrophic failure before fuel can be added, boost cut or timing retarded.. no?
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