PDXTuning/Perrin H6 Info - Page 19

silver arrow · 05-12-2006, 12:19 PM

Very curious about the similarities between 350Z valvetrain. I am interesting in doing a swap with a goal of 450-500 whp daily driver but want to avoid as many custom fabricated parts as possible. Are you inferring that 350Z valve train parts may work?

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 12:45 PM

We have assembled one H6 here motor with the EJ257 rods. They do fit and will work. I will put up some pics when I get them from Phoenix ( I am in Dallas opening our second shop and it is early there). I believe it was the valves that worked from the 350z however they needed to be clipped for length. I will check on details of the springs retainers ect...

Shabib67 · 05-12-2006, 12:51 PM

Okay i was thinking about building up my ej257 and going with a gt35r but now this thread has convinced me to go with the ez30r. What is needed to make this swap happen. So far i have come up with ez30r, turbo, fmic, injectors, custom pistons, custom rods, motor/tranny mounts, heads/valvetrain, clutch. Anything else that i am missing. For 15k without the sleeve option its pretty damn good deal. Sell yout sti longblock and you can easily get 3-4k for it and your down to 11-12k which is awesome for this kind of project.

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 01:12 PM

You are also going to need engine management (hydra) and will have to decide how to run your radiator. Stock H6 radiator or aftermarket. We have one H6 in Phoenix that is available. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks.

My-STI-Rules · 05-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Instead of running a Hydra, could a Motec system support a H6?

Shabib67 · 05-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Im trying to add up the parts list so anyone that can chime on the price.

Mahle Pistons - 500-600
Pauter Rods - 700-800
Radiator - 500-600
FMIC - not sure, thinking about getting the Kingpin one and doing custom piping - anyone know how much custom piping is?
Injectors - not sure on size and not sure on price
Hydra - 1650.00
Motor/Tranny Mounts - Not sure on price
Head/Valvetrain - will be expensive anyone have a guess let me know
GT40 turbo kit - 3000-4000
Clutch-600-2800 > all over the place

anything else that im missing or anything that needs price adjustment plz post.

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 01:32 PM

We were working with Motec on a unit for our Drift car that is set to get on of these. they are close but not available yet. For now I think Hydra is the solution.

ami2fst4u · 05-12-2006, 01:42 PM

You could always wire in an Autronic SM4 if you choose not to run the DBW system.

Rick

ka mano · 05-12-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingpin

We would be happy to share the information we are coming across ethier here or in another thread. It is just nice to see everyone working together to move toward furthering the community.

We will gather up what info we have and put something together this weekend. ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingpin

We have assembled one H6 here motor with the EJ257 rods. ... I will put up some pics... ( I am in Dallas opening our second shop...). ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingpin

... We have one H6 in Phoenix that is available. Let me know if you are interested. ...

Really looking forward to when you open your own thread where we can learn more about how your business is growing and what parts you have for sale.

What would the appropriate forum for that be... Vendor Annoucements (sic) or Vendor 'For Sale' Classifieds?

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 02:30 PM

We have a post in both of those forums. Would be happy to start our own H6 thread if that is prefered. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. Just sharing the info we have.

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ami2fst4u

You could always wire in an Autronic SM4 if you choose not to run the DBW system.

Rick

This is true. You could wire in any standalone. Link, Motec, ect.. The older versions of the H6 don't have the DBW anyway. We are sticking one of those in a WRX and the DBW version in an STi.

PHATsuby · 05-12-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ami2fst4u

You could always wire in an Autronic SM4 if you choose not to run the DBW system.

Rick

except the autronic can't run the trigger info that the H6 currently has, I tried to get Ray Hall to work with me to make one, but it was the usual autronic support, or rather lack of support. I gave him all the info, said to grind my crank wheel and weld up my cam slots....

Ben

Kingpin · 05-12-2006, 06:24 PM

Bummer.

Shabib67 · 05-16-2006, 03:03 PM

any new info?

mrwrx2002 · 05-17-2006, 12:45 PM

great job on the car guys

Miggidy · 05-18-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingpin

We were working with Motec on a unit for our Drift car that is set to get on of these. they are close but not available yet. For now I think Hydra is the solution.

Im using an M600 on my setup.

Kingpin · 05-19-2006, 11:42 AM

Standard wire in's can be used for this of course, we are working on a custom unit for more of a plug and play, similar to what the Hydra offers. Thanks.

Kingpin · 05-19-2006, 02:42 PM

Ok well here is the information that I have received on the heads recently. So we have 2 seperate heads being worked on currently. One of the older version H6 heads with no variable valve control and one if the new ones with. Here is what we have found. On the older head things are pretty strait forward. The springs and retainers for the 4 cylinder work fine. The valves from the mazda duratec/2.3 ford focus will work on the intake. They just need to be trimmed to length and regrooved. The exhaust valves are being custom made as are the buckets. Buckets are a few weeks out still but everything else is just about ready to go for testing. Once thatis complete we will have them in production. Cams we are checking into but have not decided on what route to go. There are a few interesting things however that we will present when the time comes.

Now the newer version of the head is of course completely different. The variable valve control is actually in the bucket. Here is the issue this creates. 1. the buckets now weigh something in the ballpark of 78 grams. For those of you that just gasped, you got it, more than double what we would like in a high revving motor. So we can replace them with standard bucket and lose that valuable valve control or we need to find a solution that is not impractical cost wise. That we are working on. It is not unreasonable to compromise some bottom for some top. Guys have been doing it forever with big cams, but if there is a best of both worlds we would like to find it.

The springs can be replaced, we have found some that work, and a stiffer spring will help but that heavy bucket is still going to be an issue. The valves are completely different and looks like they will have to be custom made. So that is in the works as well and should be easy enough.

That is all for now. We will send out more info as we find it. Thanks.

M

pio!pio! · 05-19-2006, 04:21 PM

the variable valve control is in the bucket itself?? not on the cam sprocket?

Does this mean that each cylinder could have it's own cam timing theoretically? Or is there only one control wire from the ECU for it?

SloRice · 05-19-2006, 05:19 PM

The variable valve advance (AVCS) is on the cam sprocket. The variable valve lift is on the bucket.

PERRINJeff · 05-19-2006, 05:23 PM

PIO!PIO!,
The varible valve lift is on the bucket. It is pretty trick! Similar to the Porsche setup. Imagine a bucket with a little "nipple" in the middle. THe outer portion free floats on the high lift cam, while the "nipple" rides on low lift cam. As soon as the bucket gets pressure, it locks the nipple to the outer bucket and bam, high lift. There is a picture of it on page 5 or so. If i could figure the link i would put it up.

The intake cam sprocket has the varible vavle timing on it,AVCS like the normal STI motors.

Your question about the each cylinder having its own is a good one. Since each bucket shares the same oil galley, and pressure is delived to them via the same solenoid, NO. It would be cool to do, but not very functional.

deathinacan · 05-19-2006, 09:07 PM

Click here to see Video

thanks for an update on the kick ace h6 info jeff - cant wait to see one fully built and on the track - til then we have to get your car and the interview we did with you at the PDX tuning meet out on the market... CANT WAIT til the H6 starts dominating the suby market! -

keep up the good work Jeff! I check on this thread every other day...

kory noble
www.myspace.com/04stiguy

west_minist · 05-22-2006, 11:17 AM

Any update guys?

Miggidy · 05-28-2006, 12:45 PM

Updates?

WHat about the other ez30 with the GT40 in it?

ohhh need dynos bad!

HighWayDrifter · 05-28-2006, 06:28 PM

any word on the older style heads and flow numbers?

05-12-2006, 12:45 PM	#452
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	We have assembled one H6 here motor with the EJ257 rods. They do fit and will work. I will put up some pics when I get them from Phoenix ( I am in Dallas opening our second shop and it is early there). I believe it was the valves that worked from the 350z however they needed to be clipped for length. I will check on details of the springs retainers ect... Last edited by Kingpin; 05-12-2006 at 12:59 PM.

05-12-2006, 01:30 PM	#455
My-STI-Rules Scooby Newbie Member#: 62580 Join Date: May 2004	EMS Question - Here Instead of running a Hydra, could a Motec system support a H6?

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05-12-2006, 12:19 PM	#451
silver arrow Scooby Specialist Member#: 25859 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Georgia Vehicle: 2000 Boxster red/tan 2008 STI SSM	Very curious about the similarities between 350Z valvetrain. I am interesting in doing a swap with a goal of 450-500 whp daily driver but want to avoid as many custom fabricated parts as possible. Are you inferring that 350Z valve train parts may work?

05-12-2006, 12:51 PM	#453
Shabib67 Scooby Specialist Member#: 61749 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Fairfax, VA	Okay i was thinking about building up my ej257 and going with a gt35r but now this thread has convinced me to go with the ez30r. What is needed to make this swap happen. So far i have come up with ez30r, turbo, fmic, injectors, custom pistons, custom rods, motor/tranny mounts, heads/valvetrain, clutch. Anything else that i am missing. For 15k without the sleeve option its pretty damn good deal. Sell yout sti longblock and you can easily get 3-4k for it and your down to 11-12k which is awesome for this kind of project.

05-12-2006, 01:12 PM	#454
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	You are also going to need engine management (hydra) and will have to decide how to run your radiator. Stock H6 radiator or aftermarket. We have one H6 in Phoenix that is available. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks.

05-12-2006, 01:30 PM	#456
Shabib67 Scooby Specialist Member#: 61749 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Fairfax, VA	Im trying to add up the parts list so anyone that can chime on the price. Mahle Pistons - 500-600 Pauter Rods - 700-800 Radiator - 500-600 FMIC - not sure, thinking about getting the Kingpin one and doing custom piping - anyone know how much custom piping is? Injectors - not sure on size and not sure on price Hydra - 1650.00 Motor/Tranny Mounts - Not sure on price Head/Valvetrain - will be expensive anyone have a guess let me know GT40 turbo kit - 3000-4000 Clutch-600-2800 > all over the place anything else that im missing or anything that needs price adjustment plz post.

05-12-2006, 01:32 PM	#457
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	We were working with Motec on a unit for our Drift car that is set to get on of these. they are close but not available yet. For now I think Hydra is the solution.

05-12-2006, 01:42 PM	#458
ami2fst4u Scooby Specialist Member#: 40638 Join Date: Jul 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: STiLL WILL is "STiLL" slower!! Vehicle: '04 PSM STi Has some work done... ;)	You could always wire in an Autronic SM4 if you choose not to run the DBW system. Rick

05-12-2006, 02:30 PM	#460
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	We have a post in both of those forums. Would be happy to start our own H6 thread if that is prefered. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. Just sharing the info we have.

05-12-2006, 06:24 PM	#463
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	Bummer.

05-16-2006, 03:03 PM	#464
Shabib67 Scooby Specialist Member#: 61749 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Fairfax, VA	any new info?

05-17-2006, 12:45 PM	#465
mrwrx2002 Scooby Specialist Member#: 59085 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Wakefield, RI Vehicle: 2002 WRX World Rally Blue Pearl	great job on the car guys

05-19-2006, 11:42 AM	#467
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	Standard wire in's can be used for this of course, we are working on a custom unit for more of a plug and play, similar to what the Hydra offers. Thanks.

05-19-2006, 02:42 PM	#468
Kingpin Vendor Member#: 41252 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: 602-795-3036 Vehicle: Twin 2005 600WHP FormulaD/TimeAttack Sti's	Ok well here is the information that I have received on the heads recently. So we have 2 seperate heads being worked on currently. One of the older version H6 heads with no variable valve control and one if the new ones with. Here is what we have found. On the older head things are pretty strait forward. The springs and retainers for the 4 cylinder work fine. The valves from the mazda duratec/2.3 ford focus will work on the intake. They just need to be trimmed to length and regrooved. The exhaust valves are being custom made as are the buckets. Buckets are a few weeks out still but everything else is just about ready to go for testing. Once thatis complete we will have them in production. Cams we are checking into but have not decided on what route to go. There are a few interesting things however that we will present when the time comes. Now the newer version of the head is of course completely different. The variable valve control is actually in the bucket. Here is the issue this creates. 1. the buckets now weigh something in the ballpark of 78 grams. For those of you that just gasped, you got it, more than double what we would like in a high revving motor. So we can replace them with standard bucket and lose that valuable valve control or we need to find a solution that is not impractical cost wise. That we are working on. It is not unreasonable to compromise some bottom for some top. Guys have been doing it forever with big cams, but if there is a best of both worlds we would like to find it. The springs can be replaced, we have found some that work, and a stiffer spring will help but that heavy bucket is still going to be an issue. The valves are completely different and looks like they will have to be custom made. So that is in the works as well and should be easy enough. That is all for now. We will send out more info as we find it. Thanks. M

05-19-2006, 04:21 PM	#469
pio!pio! Scooby Specialist Member#: 4190 Join Date: Feb 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Downey, CA Vehicle: 2008 Impreza WRX STi Aspen White	the variable valve control is in the bucket itself?? not on the cam sprocket? Does this mean that each cylinder could have it's own cam timing theoretically? Or is there only one control wire from the ECU for it?

05-19-2006, 05:19 PM	#470
SloRice Scooby Specialist Member#: 44351 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cincinnati, OH Vehicle: 2004 Mitsubishi Evo 640whp 9.91@146	The variable valve advance (AVCS) is on the cam sprocket. The variable valve lift is on the bucket.

05-19-2006, 05:23 PM	#471
PERRINJeff NASIOC Manufacturer Member#: 74110 Join Date: Nov 2004	PIO!PIO!, The varible valve lift is on the bucket. It is pretty trick! Similar to the Porsche setup. Imagine a bucket with a little "nipple" in the middle. THe outer portion free floats on the high lift cam, while the "nipple" rides on low lift cam. As soon as the bucket gets pressure, it locks the nipple to the outer bucket and bam, high lift. There is a picture of it on page 5 or so. If i could figure the link i would put it up. The intake cam sprocket has the varible vavle timing on it,AVCS like the normal STI motors. Your question about the each cylinder having its own is a good one. Since each bucket shares the same oil galley, and pressure is delived to them via the same solenoid, NO. It would be cool to do, but not very functional.

05-19-2006, 09:07 PM	#472
deathinacan Scooby Specialist Member#: 76826 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: washington Vehicle: 2004 04' GT35/40 STi Flat black	Click here to see Video thanks for an update on the kick ace h6 info jeff - cant wait to see one fully built and on the track - til then we have to get your car and the interview we did with you at the PDX tuning meet out on the market... CANT WAIT til the H6 starts dominating the suby market! - keep up the good work Jeff! I check on this thread every other day... kory noble www.myspace.com/04stiguy

05-22-2006, 11:17 AM	#473
west_minist Scooby Specialist Member#: 53451 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Caribbean Vehicle: 2000 JDM Impreza SRX w/ AVCS Silver	Any update guys?

05-28-2006, 12:45 PM	#474
Miggidy Scooby Newbie Member#: 71343 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia Vehicle: 2000 Impreza WRX GC8 Blue	Updates? WHat about the other ez30 with the GT40 in it? ohhh need dynos bad!

05-28-2006, 06:28 PM	#475
HighWayDrifter Scooby Specialist Member#: 8908 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: state of oblivion Vehicle: 2009 Dont make me mad or i will tell a mod!	any word on the older style heads and flow numbers?