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Old 03-12-2006, 07:23 PM   #1
johnboywalnut
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Blue

Default AccessPort Map Choice

Hey guys,
I just found this site and I'm having a blast reading.
I have some questions for those in the know.
I have an '04 WRX Wagon, with an Sti uppipe as the only engine performance mod.
I live in San Diego. The land of alcoholic fuel.
I recently bought an AccessPort and loaded the 91 oct. stage 1 map.
I did not hear any pinging.
After a few weeks I switched to the 91 oct.California stage 1 map
Again no audible pinging.
After mounting sti struts and swaybars under it I got excited, started making the tires scream and loaded the 91 oct. California stage 2 map even without any other exhaust mods.
So far it feels better. And still no audible noises.
Is there any downside to running this map?
Thanks in advance.
I'm a mechanic by trade and welcome any input.
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Old 03-12-2006, 07:33 PM   #2
theicewall
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Yeah, you are going to blow up your freaking engine. Stage II requires a turbo back exhaust meaning a catless downpipe a catless or high flow third cat, and it is more than just recommended to have a more free flowing catback as well. DO NOT DRIVE STAGE II WITHOUT THOSE MODS... DIDNT YOU READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL for the accessport ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????
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Old 03-12-2006, 07:40 PM   #3
wall of tvs
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Just because you aren't hearing any pinging doesn't mean that your EGTs aren't skyrocketing.

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:27 PM   #4
-Kevlar-
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yeah your not really getting the gains you would by getting a TBE first. and yeah what the hell are you doing?
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:42 PM   #5
scrapin'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboywalnut
I'm a mechanic by trade and welcome any input.
And do you work on cars with the same disregard for what the manufacturer recommends? Be smart....be safe..stop running Stage 2 without all the manufacturer required parts to do so....
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:51 PM   #6
boundy3
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running stage 2 is not recommended by cobb without a tbe and could (most likely) be harmful to your car when pushed hard (really high egt's). While I've never seen anyone running stage 2 w/o at least a downpipe, it would be interesting to see what is going on with the engine.

Have you done any datalogging while running the stage 2 map? If you love running stage 2 on your car without the proper equipment, I would love to see some datalogs if your up to it.

You should try downloading ecuexplorer from www.tari.co.za and check to see what is going on if you are going to continue running the stage 2 map, since a tbe is recomended fo a reason.

(WARNING: This is NOT a pro-stage 2 without a downpipe reply, just interested in what is going on if he's going to keep running the stage 2 map, its his car and he can do what he wants with it )
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Old 03-12-2006, 09:47 PM   #7
johnboywalnut
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Default Thanks

You guys are awesome this is why I came here. Yeah I read the manuals and no I don't work on customers cars with the same disregard for procedure. I'm a thrill seeker by nature and just trying to stay alive in this world.
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Old 03-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #8
johnboywalnut
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Default Oh and by the way,

I'm going out to change my map back to the Cali. stage1
Mucho Gracias
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Old 03-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #9
Paulie V
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I'm with Boundy- wouldn't recommend it, but curious to see some datalogs if you do!
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:33 AM   #10
johnboywalnut
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Default After reading some more

Ok guys, I've been reading. Cobbs website says if you are going to run a more free flowing exhaust it highly recomends running stage2 em, not the other way around. I see no warnings of running this way. The only warnings I see are posted on the hwg maps. I compared stage1 and stage2 map notes. The differences I found are a 1.1psi increase in target boost, and a rev limiter increased by 150 rpm. Also the 11.1 A/F ratio target is dropped from 4000rpm to 3500 at full load. Unless I was blowin this thing out at a track, I question whether one high flow cat is gonna make that critical difference. Has anyone heard of damage from the extra backpressure?
Remember this thing is just a street runner, and that cat only has to take a 150rpm increase in exhaust flow at the extreme, (ok and a little extra hydracarbon), but it looks to me, by using stage2 you are speeding engine wear either way if you put your foot in it all the time.
"speed costs, how fast you want to go" Those pedals are money meters.
Hey, I welcome all input, I just changed that map this morning and it has about 50 miles on it now. I will take it to work tomorow and start monitoring some parameters, I have ease diagnostics on my laptop and will record any relevent available PIDs. Especially EGT and LTFT values
I'm not opposed to spending money on this car, I like to justify it though.

Please tell me if I'm nuts.

Thanks again...
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:57 PM   #11
parker/slc/gc8fan
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Lets see your logs.

I know Cobb reccomends against this setup, highly.
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Old 03-13-2006, 02:57 PM   #12
theicewall
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From Cobb's Website:

Stage 2 using 91 octane fuel. Requires stock turbo, stock intake and TURBOBACK EXHAUST. 280HP / 285 ft-lbs. Cat Efficiency and EGT CEL's removed.

Map Name: Stage2 Cal
Description: Stage 2 using California Spec 91 octane fuel. Requires stock
turbo, stock intake and TURBOBACK EXHAUST. 280HP / 285 ft-lbs.
File Date: 5/26/05
Latest Rev: 1.30

Linky ---> http://www.cobbtuning.com/wrx/access...age2%20cal.txt
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Old 04-05-2006, 03:23 PM   #13
johnboywalnut
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Ok guys, I'm back, this text is copied from the Stage 2 California map notes on cobb's website. Note the first line.


Additional Notes:
For use with a stock or very mildly modified WRX. Additional modifications such
as uppipe and underdrive pulley are still within the acceptable parameters of
this mapping. When upgrading to a full turboback exhaust you will need to use
the Stage2 mapping. MUST USE FACTORY INTAKE. NO AFTERMARKET INTAKES ARE
CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS MAPPING.
The California specific map addresses lower fuel quality situations and can be
used outside of California if you are exhibiting knock using the Stage1 91 oct
map then it is recommended to use this map.
Target boost pressure is 15.8psi +/- 0.5psi depending on vehicle and conditions.
If after 1-2 weeks worth of driving you are still unable to reach target boost
pressures, you may try using the HWG version of this map.
Target A/F Ratios are mid 12's under load before the onset of boost. Under full
load by 3500 RPM the A/F Ratio will drop to mid 11:1 and gradually run richer as
RPM's increase ending at mid to high 10:1 A/F at redline.
The "Speed Limiter", which in reality just turns off boost control above 130mph,
is removed.
The Rev limiter at 7250 RPM.

From what I see, if you open up the cats then they highly suggest the stage 2 mapping but not the other way around. I would agree that signifcant performance will be gained from the down pipe and muffler but I still do not see any evidence of danger to the engine, especially with conservative use. If anyone has heard of any evidence of damage please let me know. Otherwise I will continue to run the increased boost pressures.

Thanks again,
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:32 PM   #14
theicewall
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It says when upgrading to a full turboback exhaust which just leads me to believe that you need at least a partial turboback exhaust to run this map. The reason cali has special maps like this is in part due to fuel quality but also because many people need to run factory cat pipes and such. I'm not from cali, but that's just my understanding. Run at your own risk.

It really depends on your ideals and your finnancials. You can take stance a) I want to run a map that I know is safe and will not damage my engine at my mods level or b) I am going to run the most aggressive map I can until either my engine blows up or evidence shows that I shouldnt. I personally would rather stay in the bounds of what I know to work, be reliable, and safe rather than gamble outside the lines testing and pushing my luck until finally something goes wrong.
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:36 PM   #15
theicewall
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ps- just get a catted maddads shorty downpipe and mate it to your stock catted mid pipe. You will have both cats, pass emissions, pass visual, not polute too much, gain 10 more hp, get better turbo response, and spend $300 instead of $8000 on a new engine if something goes wrong. If you do that you can run this map just fine and even better. The other option is to send your mods list to PDX and for $150 get a better AP map than cobb makes that is specific to your mods and also safe.
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Old 04-05-2006, 06:23 PM   #16
trbo-4
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bah. Be the guinea pig and run stage 2 with no mods and see how long everything holds up.
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:46 AM   #17
sandwi54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboywalnut
Ok guys, I'm back, this text is copied from the Stage 2 California map notes on cobb's website. Note the first line.


Additional Notes:
For use with a stock or very mildly modified WRX. Additional modifications such
as uppipe and underdrive pulley are still within the acceptable parameters of
this mapping. When upgrading to a full turboback exhaust you will need to use
the Stage2 mapping. MUST USE FACTORY INTAKE. NO AFTERMARKET INTAKES ARE
CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS MAPPING.
The California specific map addresses lower fuel quality situations and can be
used outside of California if you are exhibiting knock using the Stage1 91 oct
map then it is recommended to use this map.
Target boost pressure is 15.8psi +/- 0.5psi depending on vehicle and conditions.
If after 1-2 weeks worth of driving you are still unable to reach target boost
pressures, you may try using the HWG version of this map.
Target A/F Ratios are mid 12's under load before the onset of boost. Under full
load by 3500 RPM the A/F Ratio will drop to mid 11:1 and gradually run richer as
RPM's increase ending at mid to high 10:1 A/F at redline.
The "Speed Limiter", which in reality just turns off boost control above 130mph,
is removed.
The Rev limiter at 7250 RPM.

From what I see, if you open up the cats then they highly suggest the stage 2 mapping but not the other way around. I would agree that signifcant performance will be gained from the down pipe and muffler but I still do not see any evidence of danger to the engine, especially with conservative use. If anyone has heard of any evidence of damage please let me know. Otherwise I will continue to run the increased boost pressures.

Thanks again,
this is hilarious. cobb probably just copied that whole map note stage 1 map note and did not bother (or forgot to) changing the first line. why do you think that first line would contradict with what cobb says everywhere else on their website regarding stage 2 mods requirement?
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:50 AM   #18
bowenx
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anybody try to contact cobb yet to see what their stance is on this?
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:29 AM   #19
CynicX
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lol there is ALOT more involved then just boost. Also the A/F ratio your stating with a TBE, it obvisiously wont be the same with the stock system.

THIS IS WHY I DONT BY USED CARS!!

I'll pm christian so HOPEFULLY he can clarify for any other noobs reading this, that this IS a BAD BAD BAD BAD idea!!
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:56 PM   #20
Shewillbemine
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Location: SoCal...yeah you're jealous
Default

Quote:
The software plays an important part in the overall performance of a vehicle, but it's not the only criteria. What is most important is to properly match the "map" used for the modifications you're made to the vehicle. Using a map designed for another set of hardware will NOT improve performance and it is quite possible that doing so can actual cause engine damage
This quote is taken from Cobb's website as well and is an answer to one of the first FAQs "What is a map"? We could all easily fall into a he said/she said and start dissecting Cobb's instructions like Supreme Court Justices but...
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