WRX Motor in 2.5RS

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 08:34 AM

Hello all,

I've done a search for a successful swap of the WRX engine and drivetrain into an RS, to no avail.

Anyone have any real proof of this anywhere? I would love to know. (For next spring :-)

-Brendan

efoo · 09-27-2001, 09:24 AM

you mean a 2002 WRX drivetrain?

If so, I think there reason we haven't heard of it yet is that those drivetrains are an arm and a leg -- for that price, you can start importing 280hp STi engines from Japan. Maybe when the prices come down you'll start hearing about it?

-Edwin

redobs · 09-27-2001, 09:29 AM

Actually Edwin, it's been confirmed by a local member that you can get everything (engine, tranny, ecu, etc...) for a very reasonable price!! The biggest thing is the labor to install it.

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 09:50 AM

Yeah exactly, that was my idea.

Since it's not that expensive for the entire setup $5K why not go with it? My only issues are;

1. Does the WRX Tranny fit our cars crossmember mount points?

2. Does the WRX engine have same Bell Housing bolt locations as an RS? So i could go to a turbo legacy tranny if needed.

3. There must be some electronics that aren't going to match up. Even if they include the harness & ECU for that price (which i believe they did) there is going to be an issue somewhere where things don't line up. At least that's my gut feeling.

So this i guess is the info i need.

-brendan

PS- oh yeah labor is not an issue for me

Mgardenier · 09-27-2001, 10:26 AM

So if i can ask, what is the possible price for the parts for the engine swap?

redobs · 09-27-2001, 10:40 AM

Mike,

It's more than just an engine swap...it's everything! It's somewhere between $5-6K...I don't know the exact amount. If anyone is serious about this, they should contact Mike @ Exeter.

efoo · 09-27-2001, 10:43 AM

ah okay, I see. If it's $5K, I'd say that is certainly a workable alternative, assuming that labor is free.

In fact, that's not bad at all.

As far as bolts not lining up though, well, someone's gotta be the guinea pig. All I can say is, I doubt that you'll get out the door for just 5K. I'm sure there's *something* you'll need that isn't included. The question is whether that "something" is another 2002 Subaru WRX part, or some custom piece that needs to be fabricated. And fabrication costs $$$, as we all know.

Offhand, I can't think of anything though. The engine seems to be pretty much the same, from what little time I've spent poking around WRX engine bays.

And of course, labor, labor,labor. Boy, that's gonna be one tough job. I'd put it up there with installing my turbo kit, Legacy GT-B trans, TEC-II, and tuning it all, if not more. The wiring is the most annoying part IMHO. I for one would not look forward to that. I'd almost just be tempted to pull the 2.5RS wiring harness and completely rewire the car using a WRX wiring harness and switch gear. But then the harness costs some major $$$ too.

Actually, one interesting alternative would be to install the WRX mechanicals in the car, but use a TEC-II to control them. Then you avoid the wiring issues entirely, and you still have your stock 2.5RS ecu handling 90% of the car, just not fuel, spark, and idle. And you don't have to buy a new WRX ECU this way either. The total price might well come out about the same - I'm sure a factory ECU costs a lot of money, so you'd might as well put the money towards a programmable one if you're going to be modifying the car further anyway.

Basically, the question is: Brendan, does the $5K include a rental car for the month or two (or three) you'll need? I have a 1996 wagon that is available for the low low rate of $150/week, unlimited mileage, you return it with a full tank of gas... and you can use the wagon to haul your engine back from Exeter with too!

-Edwin

scoobyruman · 09-27-2001, 11:04 AM

I heard that everything pretty much bolts right up the only thing is the engine mounts, I heard that would really be the only diffrence that would cause any problem. The wrx "everything"

Is pretty sure $5500 and if your someone like Mark Fitzgerald "FITZ" you could probably do it all yourself so the total cost woudl be just the cost of the motor may say a extra $1000 miscelaneous parts and tools you might need. Hey Brendan if you actaually decide to do it I would be more then willing to give you a hand I think it would be very interesting to do and see.

Cant give you any money but can give you my time

.

Talk to you soon
Chad N

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 11:11 AM

Well i put your TEC-II in, at least the first time. So that wouldn't be an issue.

I've worked on my friends 98 Supra. It was an automatic non-turbo, but we swtiched it over to a TT 6-speed. It took us two weeks, most of it because we had to wait for the clutch and exhaust to get here. We could have gotten it done in a day, maybe two tops. And i've pulled at least 8 DSM engines. So this will be nothing new to me.

If it does in fact include the harness & ECU , then that means i can pull it out whole, and replace it whole. That would be easy. And if the tranny is mountable to the RS chassis with no hiccups then i'm good to go. These are of course best-case-scenarios... haha.

It's obvious subaru doesn't change the blocks externally very often. So i'm not as worried about that as i am the tranny. And i'm guessing that the trannies also don't get changed very often externally either. But that one is a guess. I'm more worried about finding out that the stock exhaust manifold and turbo's won't clear the sidewalls in the engine bay, or something stupid like that. I guess comparing a jap MY99 exhaust manifold to the WRX02 manifold could answer that.

So if anyone hears anything or has some input on this, please let me know.

-Brendan

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 11:14 AM

haha thanks chad!

Well i will most likely need to do it at my place. I don't think my landlord would like it, but i could do it at night. And take the T a couple of days. Plus i have to keep a watchful eye on my subaru neighbor, he may decide to finish it while i'm not there! (You know who you are!)

So i'll keep everyone posted if and when i decide to try this. Chad, why are the engine mounts different? Where did you hear this?

-Brendan

redobs · 09-27-2001, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by efoo
Basically, the question is: Brendan, does the $5K include a rental car for the month or two (or three) you'll need? I have a 1996 wagon that is available for the low low rate of $150/week, unlimited mileage, you return it with a full tank of gas... and you can use the wagon to haul your engine back from Exeter with too!

-Edwin

Does it come with insurance coverage, cuz I know me and 10 other guys would like to borrow it on Nov.4th!

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 11:29 AM

Edwin,

haha so does that include bringing the engine and tranny down in the back of your wagon?

Edwin: Always trying to pimp something!

-Brendan

efoo · 09-27-2001, 11:55 AM

Ha ha. Well hey, I've got more than one car. Might as well put them to good use when I'm not driving them.

I think that everything should work. It's just a matter of finding all the parts you need, and having the time/patience to do it all. I'd collect the parts over the winter, buy the WRX shop manuals and your 99 shop manuals, and start planning it out very carefully. That way in the springtime you'll know exactly what you need to do.

Brendan, I think you don't have to worry about your Subaru neighbor finishing it for you... you have to worry about me coming by in my wagon and snarfing all the parts in the back, then making a quick getaway with all 135hp in my NA 2.2L! I may have to install nitrous temporarily just so I can make it out of there fast enough so you can't catch me in your RS, heh.

However, I'm not so sure that doing it in your apt. complex is such a good idea.. how in the world do you hide an engine hoist? Don't tell me you're gonna break it down and haul it upstairs to your apt., along with the 2.5L block, and put a sheet over it and some coffee table books on top to complete the look.

Pete, don't you have a wagon of your own already?!? What in the world would you need my car for? Is there something happening on Nov. 4th? Go beat on your own car, not mine.

-Edwin

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 12:14 PM

No actually we have a storage space in the garage, that could house a compacted hoist. And enough space to hold the engine and tranny too!

-brendan

Jude DeMeis · 09-27-2001, 12:20 PM

The EJ Subaru engine blocks have been the same configuration for over ten years. The gearbox should bolt in as well. The main problems you are going to have are with the wiring and the exhaust system. You'll need a 1993-2001 Impreza turbo (or Legacy) subframe to clear the turbo exhaust headers. The wiring will have to be derived from the donor WRX since the ECU used in the WRX is totally new and the WRX uses direct ignition on the spark plugs. If you have both wiring diagrams and a complete WRX harness it should be doable. You'll also have to fabricate an intercooler fairing to interface the WRX cooler to the RS hood.

redobs · 09-27-2001, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by efoo

Pete, don't you have a wagon of your own already?!? What in the world would you need my car for? Is there something happening on Nov. 4th? Go beat on your own car, not mine.

-Edwin

Hey, you offered!!

We'd put those Audi guys to shame!!!(those who were there last year will know what I'm talking about!

)

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...eferrerid=1501

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 12:33 PM

Yes, good points jude.

I forgot about the intercooler. The lower crossmember they include if i remember correctly.

I don't know how subaru does their wiring harness. Is the engine harness completely seperated from the body harness? Supra and DSM was like that. I put my own alarm in, but didn't notice the ECU side. dam...

My hopes is that the engine harness goes straight to ecu plugs, and only ECU plugs. If there is any body plugs to ECU that means i will have to splice. I really want to avoid that.

But this seems like the most reliable setup for a GC8 short of having the japanese spec car.

Thanks for the input gang!

-brendan

efoo · 09-27-2001, 12:40 PM

one thing to wonder is if this includes all accessories -- especially sensors. Are you going to have to get new O2 sensors, MAP sensors, yadda yadda yadda? Just things to watch for -- otherwise it starts adding up quick.

-Edwin

paultg · 09-27-2001, 01:17 PM

Your friendly neighbor might not finish it for you, he might steal a bunch of stuff though. I have a way easier schedule than Mr. Foo, and all I have to do is run back and forth from one storage compartment to another.

And, I have a card to get in the garage too.

Brendan, I would be willing to help you out. I would not recommend doing it in the garage, because I think they would get PISSED!

We can combine storage too, just keep the expensive stuff in mine.

Paul G.

Mumbles · 09-27-2001, 01:23 PM

Well they might get pissed. But i would do it only after 10pm, which they would never find out, but i guess some old lady might tell on me. Dam... i guess we will see what happens..

Sure you can keep my expensive things in your storage, after i sqeeze your entire car into mine!

-Brendan

redobs · 09-27-2001, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by paultg
Brendan, I would be willing to help you out. I would not recommend doing it in the garage, because I think they would get PISSED!
Paul G.

Couldn't be worst than when Brendan first moved in!

efoo · 09-27-2001, 03:05 PM

ha ha ha!

oh boy, i can only imagine having been there for that...

Jonathan · 09-27-2001, 03:23 PM

While your at it, grabbing the engine, tranny, ECU, wireing harness, ECU... Dont forget the rear diff. The final drive ratio in the trannys got to be differnt than your basic grocery getter RS. Probably a 3.90 ?

Someone bid on Roger's car and get Wayne (or Jude) to do most of the work and you should be home free.

I think this would make an 'interesting' week-end project

subarurabbit · 09-27-2001, 03:29 PM

yes, "grocery getter RS" has 4.11 or 4.44
OBS or L series impreza is 3.90 or 4.11
WRX is 3.90 or 4.11
Legacy (including Outback) is either 3.70, 3.90, 4.11, or 4.44

I bet my intercooler is shot.

Roger

bill harvey · 09-27-2001, 03:32 PM

Brendan the cost for the whole engine assembly is just under 5500.00 but ofcourse there are none in the country. we could try to have one clipped off the line for you but i doubt that they would stop production to pull an engine. just be careful from whom you get it from because the manual tranny number and the auto engine are different.

09-27-2001, 08:34 AM	#1
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	WRX Motor in 2.5RS Hello all, I've done a search for a successful swap of the WRX engine and drivetrain into an RS, to no avail. Anyone have any real proof of this anywhere? I would love to know. (For next spring :-) -Brendan

09-27-2001, 10:43 AM	#7
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	ah okay, I see. If it's $5K, I'd say that is certainly a workable alternative, assuming that labor is free. In fact, that's not bad at all. As far as bolts not lining up though, well, someone's gotta be the guinea pig. All I can say is, I doubt that you'll get out the door for just 5K. I'm sure there's something you'll need that isn't included. The question is whether that "something" is another 2002 Subaru WRX part, or some custom piece that needs to be fabricated. And fabrication costs $$$, as we all know. Offhand, I can't think of anything though. The engine seems to be pretty much the same, from what little time I've spent poking around WRX engine bays. And of course, labor, labor,labor. Boy, that's gonna be one tough job. I'd put it up there with installing my turbo kit, Legacy GT-B trans, TEC-II, and tuning it all, if not more. The wiring is the most annoying part IMHO. I for one would not look forward to that. I'd almost just be tempted to pull the 2.5RS wiring harness and completely rewire the car using a WRX wiring harness and switch gear. But then the harness costs some major $$$ too. Actually, one interesting alternative would be to install the WRX mechanicals in the car, but use a TEC-II to control them. Then you avoid the wiring issues entirely, and you still have your stock 2.5RS ecu handling 90% of the car, just not fuel, spark, and idle. And you don't have to buy a new WRX ECU this way either. The total price might well come out about the same - I'm sure a factory ECU costs a lot of money, so you'd might as well put the money towards a programmable one if you're going to be modifying the car further anyway. Basically, the question is: Brendan, does the $5K include a rental car for the month or two (or three) you'll need? I have a 1996 wagon that is available for the low low rate of $150/week, unlimited mileage, you return it with a full tank of gas... and you can use the wagon to haul your engine back from Exeter with too! -Edwin Last edited by efoo; 09-27-2001 at 10:50 AM.

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09-27-2001, 09:24 AM	#2
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	you mean a 2002 WRX drivetrain? If so, I think there reason we haven't heard of it yet is that those drivetrains are an arm and a leg -- for that price, you can start importing 280hp STi engines from Japan. Maybe when the prices come down you'll start hearing about it? -Edwin

09-27-2001, 09:29 AM	#3
redobs Scooby Guru Member#: 1501 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Nashua, NH Vehicle: 2009 WRX wagon Dark grey	Actually Edwin, it's been confirmed by a local member that you can get everything (engine, tranny, ecu, etc...) for a very reasonable price!! The biggest thing is the labor to install it.

09-27-2001, 09:50 AM	#4
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	Yeah exactly, that was my idea. Since it's not that expensive for the entire setup $5K why not go with it? My only issues are; 1. Does the WRX Tranny fit our cars crossmember mount points? 2. Does the WRX engine have same Bell Housing bolt locations as an RS? So i could go to a turbo legacy tranny if needed. 3. There must be some electronics that aren't going to match up. Even if they include the harness & ECU for that price (which i believe they did) there is going to be an issue somewhere where things don't line up. At least that's my gut feeling. So this i guess is the info i need. -brendan PS- oh yeah labor is not an issue for me

09-27-2001, 10:26 AM	#5
Mgardenier Scooby Specialist Member#: 7518 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Franklin MA Vehicle: 1994 Legacy SS Aegean Blue Metallic	So if i can ask, what is the possible price for the parts for the engine swap?

09-27-2001, 10:40 AM	#6
redobs Scooby Guru Member#: 1501 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Nashua, NH Vehicle: 2009 WRX wagon Dark grey	Mike, It's more than just an engine swap...it's everything! It's somewhere between $5-6K...I don't know the exact amount. If anyone is serious about this, they should contact Mike @ Exeter.

09-27-2001, 11:04 AM	#8
scoobyruman Scooby Specialist Member#: 969 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: RIP 99RS, 01PRELUDE SH, 02WRX, Vehicle: zip zip we will see	I heard that everything pretty much bolts right up the only thing is the engine mounts, I heard that would really be the only diffrence that would cause any problem. The wrx "everything" Is pretty sure $5500 and if your someone like Mark Fitzgerald "FITZ" you could probably do it all yourself so the total cost woudl be just the cost of the motor may say a extra $1000 miscelaneous parts and tools you might need. Hey Brendan if you actaually decide to do it I would be more then willing to give you a hand I think it would be very interesting to do and see. Cant give you any money but can give you my time . Talk to you soon Chad N

09-27-2001, 11:11 AM	#9
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	Well i put your TEC-II in, at least the first time. So that wouldn't be an issue. I've worked on my friends 98 Supra. It was an automatic non-turbo, but we swtiched it over to a TT 6-speed. It took us two weeks, most of it because we had to wait for the clutch and exhaust to get here. We could have gotten it done in a day, maybe two tops. And i've pulled at least 8 DSM engines. So this will be nothing new to me. If it does in fact include the harness & ECU , then that means i can pull it out whole, and replace it whole. That would be easy. And if the tranny is mountable to the RS chassis with no hiccups then i'm good to go. These are of course best-case-scenarios... haha. It's obvious subaru doesn't change the blocks externally very often. So i'm not as worried about that as i am the tranny. And i'm guessing that the trannies also don't get changed very often externally either. But that one is a guess. I'm more worried about finding out that the stock exhaust manifold and turbo's won't clear the sidewalls in the engine bay, or something stupid like that. I guess comparing a jap MY99 exhaust manifold to the WRX02 manifold could answer that. So if anyone hears anything or has some input on this, please let me know. -Brendan

09-27-2001, 11:14 AM	#10
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	haha thanks chad! Well i will most likely need to do it at my place. I don't think my landlord would like it, but i could do it at night. And take the T a couple of days. Plus i have to keep a watchful eye on my subaru neighbor, he may decide to finish it while i'm not there! (You know who you are!) So i'll keep everyone posted if and when i decide to try this. Chad, why are the engine mounts different? Where did you hear this? -Brendan

09-27-2001, 11:29 AM	#12
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	Edwin, haha so does that include bringing the engine and tranny down in the back of your wagon? Edwin: Always trying to pimp something! -Brendan

09-27-2001, 11:55 AM	#13
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	Ha ha. Well hey, I've got more than one car. Might as well put them to good use when I'm not driving them. I think that everything should work. It's just a matter of finding all the parts you need, and having the time/patience to do it all. I'd collect the parts over the winter, buy the WRX shop manuals and your 99 shop manuals, and start planning it out very carefully. That way in the springtime you'll know exactly what you need to do. Brendan, I think you don't have to worry about your Subaru neighbor finishing it for you... you have to worry about me coming by in my wagon and snarfing all the parts in the back, then making a quick getaway with all 135hp in my NA 2.2L! I may have to install nitrous temporarily just so I can make it out of there fast enough so you can't catch me in your RS, heh. However, I'm not so sure that doing it in your apt. complex is such a good idea.. how in the world do you hide an engine hoist? Don't tell me you're gonna break it down and haul it upstairs to your apt., along with the 2.5L block, and put a sheet over it and some coffee table books on top to complete the look. Pete, don't you have a wagon of your own already?!? What in the world would you need my car for? Is there something happening on Nov. 4th? Go beat on your own car, not mine. -Edwin

09-27-2001, 12:14 PM	#14
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	No actually we have a storage space in the garage, that could house a compacted hoist. And enough space to hold the engine and tranny too! -brendan

09-27-2001, 12:20 PM	#15
Jude DeMeis Scooby Newbie Member#: 491 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Boston, Ma, USA Vehicle: 1995 Legacy race car Pan Am Blue	The EJ Subaru engine blocks have been the same configuration for over ten years. The gearbox should bolt in as well. The main problems you are going to have are with the wiring and the exhaust system. You'll need a 1993-2001 Impreza turbo (or Legacy) subframe to clear the turbo exhaust headers. The wiring will have to be derived from the donor WRX since the ECU used in the WRX is totally new and the WRX uses direct ignition on the spark plugs. If you have both wiring diagrams and a complete WRX harness it should be doable. You'll also have to fabricate an intercooler fairing to interface the WRX cooler to the RS hood.

09-27-2001, 12:33 PM	#17
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	Yes, good points jude. I forgot about the intercooler. The lower crossmember they include if i remember correctly. I don't know how subaru does their wiring harness. Is the engine harness completely seperated from the body harness? Supra and DSM was like that. I put my own alarm in, but didn't notice the ECU side. dam... My hopes is that the engine harness goes straight to ecu plugs, and only ECU plugs. If there is any body plugs to ECU that means i will have to splice. I really want to avoid that. But this seems like the most reliable setup for a GC8 short of having the japanese spec car. Thanks for the input gang! -brendan

09-27-2001, 12:40 PM	#18
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	one thing to wonder is if this includes all accessories -- especially sensors. Are you going to have to get new O2 sensors, MAP sensors, yadda yadda yadda? Just things to watch for -- otherwise it starts adding up quick. -Edwin

09-27-2001, 01:17 PM	#19
paultg Scooby Guru Member#: 437 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Londonderry, NH Vehicle: '91 Miata MX5 (Red) '09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)	Your friendly neighbor might not finish it for you, he might steal a bunch of stuff though. I have a way easier schedule than Mr. Foo, and all I have to do is run back and forth from one storage compartment to another. And, I have a card to get in the garage too. Brendan, I would be willing to help you out. I would not recommend doing it in the garage, because I think they would get PISSED! We can combine storage too, just keep the expensive stuff in mine. Paul G.

09-27-2001, 01:23 PM	#20
Mumbles Scooby Guru Member#: 248 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC	Well they might get pissed. But i would do it only after 10pm, which they would never find out, but i guess some old lady might tell on me. Dam... i guess we will see what happens.. Sure you can keep my expensive things in your storage, after i sqeeze your entire car into mine! -Brendan

09-27-2001, 03:05 PM	#22
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	ha ha ha! oh boy, i can only imagine having been there for that...

09-27-2001, 03:23 PM	#23
Jonathan Scooby Guru Member#: 4021 Join Date: Feb 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, MA USA Vehicle: 1999 Legacy GT Ltd Quick Silver Metallic	While your at it, grabbing the engine, tranny, ECU, wireing harness, ECU... Dont forget the rear diff. The final drive ratio in the trannys got to be differnt than your basic grocery getter RS. Probably a 3.90 ? Someone bid on Roger's car and get Wayne (or Jude) to do most of the work and you should be home free. I think this would make an 'interesting' week-end project

09-27-2001, 03:29 PM	#24
subarurabbit Scooby Guru Member#: 4083 Join Date: Feb 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Beverly, Ma Vehicle: 1997 Legacy Outback green	yes, "grocery getter RS" has 4.11 or 4.44 OBS or L series impreza is 3.90 or 4.11 WRX is 3.90 or 4.11 Legacy (including Outback) is either 3.70, 3.90, 4.11, or 4.44 I bet my intercooler is shot. Roger

09-27-2001, 03:32 PM	#25
bill harvey Scooby Specialist Member#: 10 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Aisle 3 next to the nuts Vehicle: 1998 2.5RS Brilliant Red	Brendan the cost for the whole engine assembly is just under 5500.00 but ofcourse there are none in the country. we could try to have one clipped off the line for you but i doubt that they would stop production to pull an engine. just be careful from whom you get it from because the manual tranny number and the auto engine are different.