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Old 03-13-2006, 11:33 AM   #1
K-A-O-S
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Rally Stuff OK, kinda some crazy questions here, but probably not asked before

my first question is, exactly how small of a turbo could I get for around 150 dollars a piece?

my next questions is, with a good enough welder, could a person flip the stock exhaust manifold on a BG5 2.5 to face the front? in this position, would it end short enough to weld on plenums for my turbo's?

and, would a perfect power engine management support two waste gates?

then, at around 10lbs of boost would it run me low-end torque at around 1700 to 2500rpm's?

what would happen with this set up if I ran a phase II 2.5 n/a block?

and with a wrx sti short block?

what would it cost by completion?
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:45 AM   #2
xcntrk75
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Well you can pick up stock TD04’s, 2.0l wrx turbo take-offs for really cheap, around 75-100bucks. They put out 360CFM at 14.7psi, which coupled to a 2.5l block would likely give you positive pressure by 2k rpm…

Have you check the aftermarket FI forum? I think a number of folks have configured NA 2.5's to use stock wrx turbo setup with success...

Also, you’re using turbos (plural), are you saying you want two turbos? The 2.5 NA block would hardly stand-up to 1 small-turbo yet along 2…
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:27 PM   #3
PHATsuby
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I would say minimum cost will be 3k, doing it cheaply, which IMO is not how you turbo a previously NA car if you want it to run decently or last a while.

Ben
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #4
K-A-O-S
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well I was actually asking about making a twin turbo manifold for my current heads and bolting an wrx sti 2.5 short block underneith with a perfect power to control A/F.

then front mount IC would be super easy because I would have got the turbo's to the botom front side of the engine.

I'm also puzzled by how I might have to run the oil lines.
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:25 PM   #5
MCarp22
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There's lots of really small turbos available in the junkyard from various 80s cars. Some of the early subarus and hyundais and stuff had really small ones. I'd imagine they sell for cheap as well.

If you really want low end like that, why not get a spare intake manifold and fab up a supercharger setup? There's a guy over on the Grassroots Motorsports boards that has a small eaton on his legacy.

Also, I want to apologise for being an ass about the roof rack thing, i hadn't considered you might have meant an add-on type of ski rack or something.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:09 PM   #6
PHATsuby
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you are aware of how to correctly pair the cylinders for the header correct? That is some really extensive fabrication, you may know that but if not, I am just giving you the heads up. So, even if you could flip the exhaust manifold around it wouldnt work out too well.

you are planning to fab a custom FMIC too? that will def raise the cost.

Ben
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:02 AM   #7
K-A-O-S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby
you are aware of how to correctly pair the cylinders for the header correct? That is some really extensive fabrication, you may know that but if not, I am just giving you the heads up. So, even if you could flip the exhaust manifold around it wouldnt work out too well.

you are planning to fab a custom FMIC too? that will def raise the cost.

Ben
the stock header is a 4-2-1 isn't it? I should be able to put a turbo on each bank and it should wok ok right? whats the firing order for these BTW?
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:06 PM   #8
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Trying to do something like this, eh?



Forced Air Stage IV
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:36 PM   #9
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I wouldn't imagine that with any size of a turbo that you would have much of any torque at such a low RPM unless you have a small turbo with a high compression ratio coupled with it. That combination wouldn't give you much of a HP push as far as the turbo goes.

With larger the turbo you go the more of a loss of torque at the lower RPM range you're going to feel, naturally you're going to be forced to go with a lower compression rate which will give you ease to work with the turbo but also lose low end torque and you'll have lag and spool time to consider as well.

I think ultimately, if you want that low end torque you'll have to go with a small turbo and a higher compression ratiom, maybe 9.2-9.7 to get the kind of torque you want.


~Mike
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:53 PM   #10
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that forced air induction kit is nice... problem is since site updated they have no more info on legacy gts. where else are you going to find a bolt up legacy twin turbo kit? they also have to install and are located in arizona.... road trip this summer .


on your turbo question i wouldnt want to get a tdo4 your going to spool incredibly fast and for power going to have to run high boost on the n/a set up. would have to run some internals for suport. try to find a larger one then back the boost off rule of thumb 1 psi = 10 hp... not close to exact but good enough. i have a rebuilt t-25 turbo from a eclipse gsx all i would do with that one is front mount and run 7psi would pump probably 50 more to the wheels and 70 to crank or so. good luck bud dont blow the motor either way
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Old 03-14-2006, 02:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A-O-S
the stock header is a 4-2-1 isn't it? I should be able to put a turbo on each bank and it should wok ok right? whats the firing order for these BTW?
yea, and no. And don't use the FAT kit for reference cause that is the wrong way to make the header. If you don't know the firing order this may be a bit much for you, but hey I am all about learning.

firing order is 1,3,2,4, now, knowing that firing order, do you know what do with it

Ben
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:10 PM   #12
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You definitely can flip the headers around. If you placed the turbo flange right at the collectors for right and left banks you would have a good chance of having the motion of the turbines diffuse the exhaust pulses enough to make scavenging pretty much negligable.

If you were going to go for a big budget no holds barred setup, you would most certianly want to join 1 with 2 and 3 with 4 into their respective turbos. For budgeting, just go with right and left banks.

I would reccomend placing any turbo between the engine and firewall due to the ample room back there once the trans dipstick is bent out of the way.

left and right turbos into common a twin inlet/single exit top mount on a megasquirted mill for the win!
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:03 AM   #13
K-A-O-S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby
yea, and no. And don't use the FAT kit for reference cause that is the wrong way to make the header. If you don't know the firing order this may be a bit much for you, but hey I am all about learning.

firing order is 1,3,2,4, now, knowing that firing order, do you know what do with it

Ben
OMG, the stock header is the ****ing oppesite of how it should be.

I was looking at it thinking, ***, why is every body going nuts over headers when the stock one is a nice 4:2:1. I was wondering about why it didn't vibrate awsfully with matched opposed firing, silly me.

so this thing is goint to want two of those pipes switched fron side to side, and now lengthes are going to be an awfull PITA.


as for the comments about CR, yes, I'm aiming for 9.5 or so, hence the two tiny turbo's, maybe even sent to majestic for larger cold sides, or smaller hot sides.

I figure two small turbo's,9.5:1 CR, and a huge FMIC to get my manifold pressure down and I should be ok with the perfect power for management.

I've been told the wrx sti short block will get me in the low 9's for CR, since my heads have smaller combustion domes. is this correct?

I'm only trying to top my hp out at 300, in the end.

torque and low end response are my main concerns, since that is most of the brute force you can use from day to day and in autoX.
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:12 AM   #14
K-A-O-S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mranlet
You definitely can flip the headers around. If you placed the turbo flange right at the collectors for right and left banks you would have a good chance of having the motion of the turbines diffuse the exhaust pulses enough to make scavenging pretty much negligable.

If you were going to go for a big budget no holds barred setup, you would most certianly want to join 1 with 2 and 3 with 4 into their respective turbos. For budgeting, just go with right and left banks.

I would reccomend placing any turbo between the engine and firewall due to the ample room back there once the trans dipstick is bent out of the way.

left and right turbos into common a twin inlet/single exit top mount on a megasquirted mill for the win!

thanx for the advice, it sounds pretty good, I was thinking forward mounting to get them close to the bumper for a FMIC, since the fmic will give me a greater drop in boost before the manifild, thus allowing me to run the turbo's closer to flat out.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:47 AM   #15
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I found this kind of interesting, I wonder if any of these parts would ork with my heads.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-S...spagenameZWDVW
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:59 PM   #16
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if you dont mind using non-subaru stuff, you can pick up 14b's for $50-$80
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