Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday March 29, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Legacy Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2000, 03:40 PM   #1
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post KYB AGX w/stock springs report....

First off, waaaah! I miss the stiffer Eibachs (no, I don't miss the ride height issues).

There are signs of an overdamped condition, i.e. the springs not being enough for the struts at 2/4. I'll let them break in for a bit, then try tightening up the KYBs to see what happens.

I'm back at stock ride height which, after measuring, confirms the 1.6F and 1.75R drop that I got from the Eibachs. It's not to be leaving metal shavings on the lip of my garage, too. But now that I know what I had, I miss it very much. No question.

I took a familiar curve at the same velocity as with the Eibach/AGX combo, and it wasn't as securely planted, because of the softer springs, so I got a little bit of lean-based tire scrubbing. Ah, well. I'm sure something will come up.

Meanwhile, Duxler Tire, Evanston....$180 for spring install, alignment, and brake bleeding! I'm pleased with that number!

Kevin
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2000, 06:54 PM   #2
GTMAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 480
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy GT Wagon

Post

How is the ride comfort and 2f/4r? Is it better than the Eibachs + boosters?

If you're running overdamped, then you need to turn the struts down i.e1/1. But I'm sure curious about the reduction of body lean when you turn it up.

GTMAN
GTMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2000, 07:04 PM   #3
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Yes, the ride comfort is better with the stock springs. The problem with the boosters was that they reduced the effective length of the spring. We tried placing them at the base of the spring, since it would have taken far more strength than any of us had to slide that big mother in between the progressive coils!

The boostered Eibachs were stiffer, but at the same time kind of squishy as I explained previously, cuz of that big 'ol hunk of rubber sitting beneath the spring. We thought of the plastic wrap business, but that will probably degrade over time and need a reapplication, even though it seems to make more sense than the boosters.

I talked to Mike Shields, who said that I was the first dissatisfied customer with the Eibach Legacy springs, but that he'd take them back. That guy is aces, and I'll be sure to give him business whenever I can. He knew of no alternatives that would guarantee a 1" drop for my wagon.

The things we quickly get used to...

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2000, 07:06 PM   #4
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Hey GTMAN, how the heck come you're a "specialist," when I have one more post than you do?

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2000, 10:05 PM   #5
GTMAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 480
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy GT Wagon

Talking

From the bright side to the dark side and then back again Well I had a long discussion with Mike S. also when I got my 0.75in.=1.8in drop on the wagon. Humm I was dissatisfied too....but learned to live with it. Went thru all the stress of "what should I do's". Take em out, AGX's going bad, scraping etc........but performance, looks and spending $250 again for install and realignment convinced me to make it all work.
And its been a great learning experience.....worth 10 credit hours!

With the booster, I thought you had used soap and slid it along the coil down? That would have made it easier.....but harder to come out when the soap dries though...but I found a technique though. A real wrist breaker I admit....talk about the cussing, I think I ran out of cuss words just doing the rear only.....had to switch 3 languages too over the 2 hr period

As for the 95 vs 93/94 postings "specialist" title.....I must have been grandfathered in by the old ways, or "they" know I'm on the 1.8in. drop darkside and was not afraid of it.....just kidding .

GTMAN
GTMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 05:48 AM   #6
gumball
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1209
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Wheaton, MD
Post

Hey did anyone talking to Mike Shields ask if more of the Prodrive/Eibach springs for the Legacy would be made? He evidently has one set he's keeping for posterity. It is the true 3/4" drop that he advertises- a couple folks on the board (Akita?) have them. It'll be interesting to see what the Whitelines can do too.

My AGX are broken in some, but I defintely think there's some bounciness at 2F/4R indicative of overdamping w/ the stockers. I'm not complaining though. In DC the roads suck the big one, there's fiber work going on everywhere and stock height is all I can handle.

gumball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 09:03 AM   #7
DLC
out back
Moderator
 
Member#: 1964
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: 84XXX
Vehicle:
05 OB XT LTD
Silver/Gray

Post

So the 3/4" Eibachs are no longer being made?

Damn.

I guess we'll have to wait for the Whiteline results...
DLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 10:43 AM   #8
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

I took her out today for a damned good thrashing, and here's the in-depth report:

Turn in is still exceptionally sharp, although obviously, the lowered car seemed more eager to turn in as a result of its lower gravity center. The stock springs place a premium on smoothness as opposed to the Eibachs, which could be thrashed, contrary to my style but it's a nice option to have. For instance, if rather than carving a nice arc you have to fling the car into a corner for some reason.

Compliance is greatly improved, obviously because I'm not within the ride height that the AGX likes. It feels more plush, and I don't get the extra little jiggles that the too low car gave me over rough pavement, or those low, sharp little bumps. It's less jarring which makes sense, given the softer spring rate.

Front to back stiffness is unchanged, since this is mostly a function of the strut. Laterally now, when you rocked the body with the Eibachs, you got a single, short rebound rock. Now you get a rock and a half. It's still light years better that stock, making me think that the stock dampers are the biggest issue in that regard.

Where I notice the lateral stiffness deterioration (though not a substantial one) is in a corner where you customarily pitch the car in, just to have a bit of fun. You have to wait a hair for the spring to come to terms with the strut's damping and set. This is what I meant earlier by the setup placing a premium on smoothness, which is fine.

But there isn't any crashing or bounding over bumps, and the few potholes that I went looking for were fine. You notice the increased stiffness of the suspension thanks to the AGXs, but I don't have to avoid them now.

There is also still the same well-planted sense of security that was present with the Eibach setup. The missing last tenth of ultimate confidence that comes from the Eibachs pitchability, for lack of a better descriptive, isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it keeps you from being silly with impunity.

There aren't really any signs of over or under damping most importantly. Bumps get you the single, well-controlled rebound instead of the short jounce of overdamped, or big bounce of underdamped.

All in all, it's something I'm able to live quite happily with, until something better comes along. But boy, now that I'm at stock ride height, you can really see how an inch of drop would make the car look sweeet, yet still be within the optimal range of the AGX.

Is there anything I missed? I did this because in musing about the stock springs with the AGX, it occurred to me that nobody had ever done an in-depth ride analysis of the combination. Hope this helps someone.

Once the AGXs break in, I'll see about stiffer settings, though I suspec that is when you would begin to see the symptoms of overdamping...

The Whiteline thing is interesting. Apparently, they also make a wagon-specific spring. The guy at the three-initial place (whose name escapes me, but was cited in a previous post) is checking on it, and will let either Dale at Teague's or I know. He thought that Whiteline made a wagon spring, but wasn't sure about the drop. Anything more than 30mm is bad.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 10:45 AM   #9
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Oops, I meant "withIN the ride height that the AGX likes..."

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 02:37 PM   #10
nuburu2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2609
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Roseville, Ca, USA
Vehicle:
98 BK-GT White
'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

Smile

Kevin, Thanks for the in-depth report! Soon to be in need of new struts, and having exchanged a few Messages with Jamie about the coil-overs (most prohibitively $$$$$)it looks like we are all waiting to hear more about the White Line product. The possibility of Wagon specific application is especially enticing, as mine often finds itself loaded to the gills for a week of skiing or long trip and the sedan doesn't need to address such loading issues.
Having lowered my 91 Integra 1.75 inches I'm in agreement about the trade-offs involved. I guess Love-Hate would capture it. Speed bumps (urrgh!) and steep driveways versus short sweepers and quick transitions leave one wondering why we can't have it all! Something like the Infinity Q45A comes to mind. With all the advances made in computer power since the demise of that sophisticated-over complicated beast one wonders what FHI could come up with backed by the Mighty General's $$$$$$$
Ah well, just idle musing at this point. Thanks again for the insightful review. When were we to hear from Teague's??

Glenn
nuburu2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2000, 04:01 PM   #11
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Hey, I received an email from Eibach Friday, with a request to call their Tech line on Monday, so that they could get to the bottom of the big plummet from the Legacy springs.

I was surprised to hear from them so quickly, but fully intend to get to the bottom of the spring problem. Who knows, a wagon-specific set might result, or a Legacy spring that is better able to bear the weight of our cars. Seems to me that almost everyone who installed this kit got way too much drop.

I'll keep everyone posted...

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 01:32 PM   #12
Force[FED]
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 292
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Elmer, NJ USA
Vehicle:
2011 BMW 535i
Havana Metallic

Post

I noticed you mentioned that you don't have to avoid bumps now like you did when using the Eibach springs. Just for the record, even with my 1.5" drop from the H&R's, I don't have to avoid anything. And this is even with 17*7 wheels with +48mm offset. And now with the FHI dampers the car is better than stock, even over large bumps/dips.

Glad to see Eibach is interested in helping everyone out tho!

Kev www.lagging.com
Force[FED] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 04:04 PM   #13
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

This just in from Dale at Teague's...


<<So far the Whiteline springs are working out very well. They drop the car between 3/4 and 1" very mild drop. But the handling is a lot better. The ride is stiffer but not harsh. From what you say you are looking for I would say the Whiteline springs would be exactly what you need. I will be adding them to the web page soon. What year is your Legacy and I will email you back with a price on the set.>>

I believe the term is, "Woo hoo!!"

Kevin

gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 04:06 PM   #14
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Post

Does anybody know what the curb weights are for the sedan and wagon? I didn't think the wagon was all that much heavier - not enough to justify the suspension dropping 1" more than Eibach said it would.

Pat Olsen
'99 GT sedan (RIP)
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 04:06 PM   #15
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Oh, crap. For some reason it hosed off the email cut and paste. At any rate, Dale says the Whiteline springs are working great, with a mild, 3/4 to 1" drop on his Legacy GT test mule. He says they're stiff but still compliant, and not at all objectionable as regards ride quality.

He's emailing me with a quote tomorrow. I'm optimistic...

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 04:18 PM   #16
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Patrick, a quick web search turned up curb weights of 3090 for the sedan, and 3146 for the wagon. You wouldn't think that almost 100 lbs would make that much of a difference... Hmmmm.

Hey, ForceFed. I think the bump avoidance was caused by the KYBs being outside their operating range with the Eibach plummet. I wasn't sure if I should hit 'em hard, so I didn't.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 05:08 PM   #17
DLC
out back
Moderator
 
Member#: 1964
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: 84XXX
Vehicle:
05 OB XT LTD
Silver/Gray

Post

My 93 Wagon is supposed to be 3300, i'm not so sure the newer ones are lighter, but...

That Whiteline deal sounds encouraging.

Please let me in on the prices...
DLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 07:10 PM   #18
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

Hmmmm. Different numbers, but the word from AutoVantage for curb weights is GT sedan: 2885; GT wagon, 2975. I still say that the extra weight shouldn't make that much difference. Cars don't drop that much when we have passengers, who weigh far more than the under 100-lb difference, so what the dilly-o?

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2000, 10:57 PM   #19
Velocity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2205
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy L Wagon
Deep Sapphire Blue

Post

gtguy: Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard somebody state the weight of the Legacy GT models as sub 3k lbs.... Maybe dry weight, but I am rather skeptical about that figure with fluids and a passenger...

Anyhow, I completely agree with you--there really isn't any way 100 lbs would make a spring drop another inch, unless that spring is a defect (wrong rate), or maybe some kind of progressive spring. I dunno... Seems really weird to me.

But what do I care, I'll be picking up the H&R/FHI combo soon.
Velocity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 12:21 AM   #20
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Post

The chat with Eibach was rather fruitless. They confirmed what I already knew, which was that the heavier weight of the wagon contributed to the excessive drop. They have no plans as far as Tech was aware, to do anything wagon-specific, so there.

That was pretty much it. So now I ship some springs back, and await word about a solution to my mild drop. Perhaps I'll put on an anti-lift kit while I'm being patient.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 05:58 AM   #21
nuburu2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2609
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Roseville, Ca, USA
Vehicle:
98 BK-GT White
'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

Post

gtguy,
Did Dale have anything to say about the wagon vs sedan issue? Which is he trying out the White Line springs on, I assume the sedan?
nuburu2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 06:16 AM   #22
DLC
out back
Moderator
 
Member#: 1964
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: 84XXX
Vehicle:
05 OB XT LTD
Silver/Gray

Post

He's got a 95ish FWD Sedan that he uses for auto-x'ing.

I can't wait to hear some definitive results about these.
DLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 08:12 AM   #23
nuburu2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2609
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Roseville, Ca, USA
Vehicle:
98 BK-GT White
'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

Post

I agree!! If the price is right this sounds ideal. Funny, just looking thru owner's manual last night and found that the GT has .5 in more clearance than the non GT Wagon. Tires and rims ? With 6.5 in of clearance B4 mods one wouldn't think that a 1.5 in drop would be that extreme. Must admit though that near stock ride height with flatter cornering attitude is mighty attractive!

Glenn

Another question arises after my perusal of the manual though. Has anyone with a GT found themselves needing to install chains in snow country? The manual says no can do, and I was wondering if anyone found themselves stuck or turning around and going home. I've had 2 AWD Subies and never needed the chains but always carried a pair of HD V-Bars just in case. I'd feel strange heading for Tahoe without the insurance policy. Any comments or experience?
nuburu2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 09:36 AM   #24
bobski
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 413
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Tracy/San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
2006 VF-39 WRX Wagon
OBP

Post

Glenn,

I've never had any problems in the Sierras with either my wife's Outback or my GT. Although I do carry chains in the Outback, I've never had to use chains on any of the Subarus. This is through 4 ski seasons since I've started owning Subarus. As long as you have AWD and M+S tires, Caltrans will let you through. Caltrans will usually close the road if it gets bad enough to require chains on all vehicles.

Bob
bobski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2000, 09:31 PM   #25
GTMAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 480
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy GT Wagon

Wink

I guess there is one way to find out. gtguy, you mission is to try out the whitelines and compare them with the eibach's! We have to know the truth...its out there and you need to bring it here.

Note: Even the largest dips that I have taken have not bottomed out the AGX's (knock on wood). Infact its like a roller coaster ride. It follows the contour of the dip like on rails. The downward G-force sensation is sweet especially your blasting thru...like it has vacuum suction fans under the car like the McLaren F1. Not at all like normal cars that 747 over the dip and gradually lower you down on a pillow. Its like goin F16 on the road!

Keep us posted.

GTMAN
PS: Eibach's response on the weight was a good joke. I know a few people on the board that got the same drop with GT sedans.
GTMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stock struts, Top hats, KYB AGX struts,& springs smokeone954 Suspension/Brakes/Handling 47 04-11-2010 04:57 PM
FS: KYB AGX+kg/mm springs+stock top hats for 98-01 impreza Solar VIC Private Classifieds 12 03-11-2008 12:36 AM
Will it be fine to do KYB AGXs with stock RS springs? rites Brakes, Steering & Suspension 1 09-10-2005 06:56 PM
KYB AGXs w/Prodrive Springs Compared to Stock MissMyStook Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 02-18-2005 06:25 PM
Does anyone have KYB/AGX with stock springs? nukeyfish Brakes, Steering & Suspension 9 08-22-2002 06:34 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.