Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2006, 11:21 AM   #1
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2010 Fozzy XT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default Demand or Pressure System?

So what do people feel are better? Pressure type systems or on demand type systems?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006, 12:58 PM   #2
Richard L
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 85153
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sussex England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

Could you explain the difference between the two ? Is it something to do with the Shurflo's damand switch?

I assume the "pressure" type is controlling the pump speed to vary delivery?

Richard
Richard L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006, 02:55 PM   #3
DISCOPOPE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43339
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: mpls, mn
Vehicle:
2oo4 STi
URgt35r w/t3hM3finj3cki0n

Default

my shurflow setup surged something horrid.
i tried running a fuel pressure regulator inline to keep things nice and consistant.

i had a solinoid before the regulator that opened at 1psi, then the regulatpr would see pressure and recirculate as needed.

it still surged after about 45 seconds.
adjusting the pressure threshhold on the pump seemed to help, but it would seem to shift from hour to hour.

i figured enough was enough and ordered a smc setup.
DISCOPOPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006, 03:36 PM   #4
Richard L
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 85153
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sussex England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

This is a much simplier solution to your problems.

Richard
Richard L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006, 10:03 PM   #5
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2010 Fozzy XT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

What I mean is the systems like mine I would call a pressure system that hold pressure all the time and wait until the need for water just releases the pressure once triggered.

The demand systems are the ones I think like the SMC kit that has to start/prime the pump when the demand for water is needed and pressure is made at that point.
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 01:52 PM   #6
DISCOPOPE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43339
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: mpls, mn
Vehicle:
2oo4 STi
URgt35r w/t3hM3finj3cki0n

Default

right, but on the demand setup, your inlet pressure rises way faster than your outlet can de-pressure.

the pump goes on/off/on/off/on/off while spraying.
you can adjust the 'on demand" pressure point, but in my experience that only delays the problem.
DISCOPOPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 02:25 PM   #7
Richard L
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 85153
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sussex England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Token-Negro
What I mean is the systems like mine I would call a pressure system that hold pressure all the time and wait until the need for water just releases the pressure once triggered.

The demand systems are the ones I think like the SMC kit that has to start/prime the pump when the demand for water is needed and pressure is made at that point.

Why not getting an aquamist System2x, it is on-demand, and do not spike between 85-120psi, when a 30cc surge arrestor is used, the water pressure is held pretty steady, ripple is less a few psi.
Richard L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 09:00 PM   #8
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2010 Fozzy XT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
Why not getting an aquamist System2x, it is on-demand, and do not spike between 85-120psi, when a 30cc surge arrestor is used, the water pressure is held pretty steady, ripple is less a few psi.
I was just posing a question to the group. In my findings the 100cc accumulator im using does a very good job to keep things going really smooth when the pump comes on and off, but with that large of an accumulator the put really never comes on at full tilt spray unless im making it during a cleaning system check.
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 10:59 PM   #9
NavyBlueSubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22127
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Oviedo, FL
Vehicle:
2013 BMW 335i Sedan
Estoril Blue

Default

I am running a dual-nozzle/duel solenoid system. I have my shurflo pump keep the line pressurized all the time. When the utec or the pressure switch(set at 7psi) open their respective solenoid, the line pressure now has somewhere to go(out the nozzle) and the pump will automatically turn on to maintain pressure. To prevent oscillation in pressure I have an Aeromotive FPR to maintain 80psi + Manifold pressure, which is sitting on the other side of the solenoid that opens first(the 7psi pressure switch one).

I hope this helps.

Jeff
NavyBlueSubaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 01:34 PM   #10
DISCOPOPE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43339
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: mpls, mn
Vehicle:
2oo4 STi
URgt35r w/t3hM3finj3cki0n

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyBlueSubaru
I am running a dual-nozzle/duel solenoid system. I have my shurflo pump keep the line pressurized all the time. When the utec or the pressure switch(set at 7psi) open their respective solenoid, the line pressure now has somewhere to go(out the nozzle) and the pump will automatically turn on to maintain pressure. To prevent oscillation in pressure I have an Aeromotive FPR to maintain 80psi + Manifold pressure, which is sitting on the other side of the solenoid that opens first(the 7psi pressure switch one).

I hope this helps.
Jeff
lol thats pretty much exactly the same setup i was running.
i was using the 60psi pumps... maybe that was the root of my issue to begin with.
DISCOPOPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 02:58 PM   #11
NavyBlueSubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22127
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Oviedo, FL
Vehicle:
2013 BMW 335i Sedan
Estoril Blue

Default

yea, you should probably go higher pressure. Better atomization is the obvious benefit.

Has anybody contemplated a multi-port injection system? I like what Perrin did with their H-6; the per-cylinder water injection is pretty nice. All it would take is a few drilled holes into the manifold and 4 nozzles. I have not been able to find any nozzles like the $19 ones from aquamist; it needs to have threads on the front so you can mount it right into the metal like they do. I dont want to put the traditional hago nozzle into the intake runner, I think it would obscure too much of the passage and restrict airflow.

Jeff
NavyBlueSubaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 03:05 PM   #12
NavyBlueSubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22127
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Oviedo, FL
Vehicle:
2013 BMW 335i Sedan
Estoril Blue

Default

Also, for cheap nozzles that are just like a certain company I wont mention, check out http://www.mcmaster.com/ and go to page 1939. This is the kind of nozzle I have been using for years and they work great.
----
Standard and No-Drip Misting Nozzles
3178K61 - 1gph@100psi
3178K62 - 2gph@100psi
3178K63 - 3gph@100psi
They go up to 10gph, these are just examples
----

Jeff
NavyBlueSubaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 01:51 AM   #13
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCOPOPE
my shurflow setup surged something horrid......
Ya might wanna look into running a mini water hammer arrester. They cost about $12 at home depot and with a fitting to get it between the solenoid and pump would be less then $15.

Seems logical that pressure type systems would be better, but it would probably be best to have one with a rrfpr.

The further away from the cylinder the water is injecting, and the more intercooling effect there will be and possibly the less in cylinder cooling there would be. Maybe it would be best to inject near the intercooler and direct port? Only problem is that if you're gonna use that many nozzles, you will need to be running a lot of water to get propper atomization, and the holes in the nozzles will have to be small which might cause quicker change in flow over time and clogging. At least that's what it I think.

peace
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 09:58 AM   #14
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
04 STi
Blue w/ custom bug splat

Default

Yeah, with TINY jets for individual port injection, I would really worry about having only one clog and leaning out that cylinder something fierce.

The mini water hammer arrrester is an interesting idea, but I doubt it would stand up in an automotive environment, and I am pretty sure that they would not be happy with methenol running through them.

I have wondered about using a log-type accumulator to help keep the pressure pulses in check....
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 10:16 AM   #15
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2010 Fozzy XT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

Use the Shurflo Accumulator, its plenty big enough and once u set the pressure you are done with it, and its like 30$ But also i would run the 100 psi pump
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to find Fuel leak....pressurize system JMK508 Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 22 12-21-2007 12:52 PM
2005 Mustang GT Convertible. Are these in high demand or what? plunk10 Off-Topic 55 03-22-2005 07:24 PM
Apex'i 60mm EGT or Pressure EL series gauge HubbieScooby Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 0 04-17-2004 07:25 AM
Tire wear, alignment, camber or pressure? Lowball Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 04-20-2003 07:02 PM
Meet my demands, or the Dog dies! (some shooting fun with my friends) Eric SS Off-Topic 26 02-20-2003 10:24 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.