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Old 03-22-2006, 01:24 AM   #1
cubuff
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Default Helix cams info thread.

I just got these today. I was a little dissapointed by the packaging. All the valve springs and retainers were just thrown into a ziplock baggie! Not that this is a big deal but for 1k you would expect everything to be nicely packaged.

Anyway I wanted to start a info thread on these since they are pretty new to the market. So anyone running them post your feedback in here. I will be putting these in my car the first week of April and I will be getting tuned the following week. I will post my feedback along with dyno plots and all that good stuff. The car should be fun, the cams will be going into otherwise stock WRX heads on a built 2.5 block and FP red turbo.


I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:26 AM   #2
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Are these reground factory cams? Rewelds? Entirely new billets? I see that 264 x 9.4 is the intake size. What about the exhaust. Did you get adjustable cam gears as well?
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:14 AM   #3
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they claim they are new billets,as for any info on the gruppe-s will not give any which is a bunch of crap.they are selling a product that they will not ,or do not have any info on. not very good buisness if you ask me . it is kind of like selling a car and when the buyer asks what make is it ,and how many miles are on it? you reply um it is a red car with some miles on it. come on gruppe-s what if there is a problem? and we need some specific info on these. this is by far the worst way to sell a product to buyers. boooo to
gruppe-s ,and don't post up another bogus dyno showing what they do . give up specific numbers. they dyno will not give the builder cam specs.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:13 PM   #4
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i have a set of these. the motor is goign in today, so in teh next couple of days, i'll give up some info.

for me, the out of the box issues with the cams and valvetrain are no worse than any cam i ever got for a small block chevy.

you're one of those people that whine about one crappy looking weld on a mid pipe, aren't you? it's under teh car, it doesn't leak. deal with it.

helix cams and valve train for 1000 bucks is a good deal, get over the ziploc baggie.

or send them to me, i will take them off your hands, free of charge, so you don't have to deal with them packaging, and you can go buy some Jun cams for 2 grand.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
they claim they are new billets,as for any info on the gruppe-s will not give any which is a bunch of crap.they are selling a product that they will not ,or do not have any info on. not very good buisness if you ask me . it is kind of like selling a car and when the buyer asks what make is it ,and how many miles are on it? you reply um it is a red car with some miles on it. come on gruppe-s what if there is a problem? and we need some specific info on these. this is by far the worst way to sell a product to buyers. boooo to
gruppe-s ,and don't post up another bogus dyno showing what they do . give up specific numbers. they dyno will not give the builder cam specs.
make sure whomever is doing the work to your heads degree's your new cams. they will be able to tell you your max valve lift both intake and exhaust, duration, and overlap.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
i have a set of these. the motor is goign in today, so in teh next couple of days, i'll give up some info.

for me, the out of the box issues with the cams and valvetrain are no worse than any cam i ever got for a small block chevy.

you're one of those people that whine about one crappy looking weld on a mid pipe, aren't you? it's under teh car, it doesn't leak. deal with it.

helix cams and valve train for 1000 bucks is a good deal, get over the ziploc baggie.

or send them to me, i will take them off your hands, free of charge, so you don't have to deal with them packaging, and you can go buy some Jun cams for 2 grand.

no i don't whine ,and yes i like my welds to look nice even if it is under the car and they are. i payed 900 shipped not a grand you payed more and got the same crap pack job. i don't know what backwoods town you live or buy your parts from ,but i never got a cam,or springs out of a box ,or in a ziploc bag. as for jun i bet you get a cam card with specs ,and the springs will be in a box not a ziploc bag. teh end
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
no i don't whine ,and yes i like my welds to look nice even if it is under the car and they are. i payed 900 shipped not a grand you payed more and got the same crap pack job. i don't know what backwoods town you live or buy your parts from ,but i never got a cam,or springs out of a box ,or in a ziploc bag. as for jun i bet you get a cam card with specs ,and the springs will be in a box not a ziploc bag. teh end
Exactly!! Im glad to see I wasnt the only one. Thats why I was thrown off. I was expecting the springs and retainers all to be boxed not thrown into a bag. All springs and retainers I have ever seen have been neatly packed and seperated. I was really expecting cam specs as well and was really dissapointed there wasnt a spec sheet.

Anyway, I will be interested to see what these do. I have a friend running a fp and a hybrid 2.5 wrx stock cams and heads that will dyno the same day I do so it will be really interesting to see side by side numbers. My swap starts April 8th.

What would be cool is to see helix cams vs. crower stg2's in otherwise identical cars. How are these supposed to compare. What power increase are people getting with crower sticks?
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
Exactly!! Im glad to see I wasnt the only one. Thats why I was thrown off. I was expecting the springs and retainers all to be boxed not thrown into a bag. All springs and retainers I have ever seen have been neatly packed and seperated. I was really expecting cam specs as well and was really dissapointed there wasnt a spec sheet.

Anyway, I will be interested to see what these do. I have a friend running a fp and a hybrid 2.5 wrx stock cams and heads that will dyno the same day I do so it will be really interesting to see side by side numbers. My swap starts April 8th.

What would be cool is to see helix cams vs. crower stg2's in otherwise identical cars. How are these supposed to compare. What power increase are people getting with crower sticks?

what i was beefing about is the fact that when i called gruppe-s they said [quote] um um the specs are on the site[endquote] i said no they are not .i need like a cam card with real specs durations,and all the other vitals.
gruppe-s [quote] what do ya mean?these cams are 264's duration what else is there to know? we have used them with no problems[end quote].
i replied what about at duration at 50 degrees?
gruppe-s [quote] what about it ? i don't think we know that info.let me check......... ok there is none available you should be fine with these i have to go [end quote] now that is great customer care, and they build engines. i guess i should buy one of those to i wonder if they have specs on what they are doing with those they need to pull thier heads out of thier rearends,and get some info.i will never buy from them again,and i will offer this info to who ever asks about them.
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
Exactly!! Im glad to see I wasnt the only one. Thats why I was thrown off. I was expecting the springs and retainers all to be boxed not thrown into a bag. All springs and retainers I have ever seen have been neatly packed and seperated. I was really expecting cam specs as well and was really dissapointed there wasnt a spec sheet.

Anyway, I will be interested to see what these do. I have a friend running a fp and a hybrid 2.5 wrx stock cams and heads that will dyno the same day I do so it will be really interesting to see side by side numbers. My swap starts April 8th.

What would be cool is to see helix cams vs. crower stg2's in otherwise identical cars. How are these supposed to compare. What power increase are people getting with crower sticks?

what i was beefing about is the fact that when i called gruppe-s they said [quote] um um the specs are on the site[endquote] i said no they are not .i need like a cam card with real specs durations,and all the other vitals.
gruppe-s [quote] what do ya mean?these cams are 264's duration what else is there to know? we have used them with no problems[end quote].
i replied what about at duration at 50 degrees?
gruppe-s [quote] what about it ? i don't think we know that info.let me check......... ok there is none available you should be fine with these i have to go [end quote] now that is great customer care, and they build engines. i guess i should buy one of those to i wonder if they have specs on what they are doing with those they need to pull thier heads out of thier rearends,and get some info.i will never buy from them again,and i will offer this info to who ever asks about them.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:36 AM   #10
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agreed i wouldn't mind knowing what the gross duration, lobe seperation and a few other thigns are. but really, does it mattter that much to me that i am going to run down a reputable company with great customer service on an internet forum?

at least call preston or jeff adn tell them what your beef is with the product.

the only way things get better is by suggesting improvements.

in all reality, it's probably not gruppe-s' packaging, it's the way they come from teh factory where they are packed. bitch about the company that makes them and probabaly packages them, not the salesmen.

as for what backwards swamp i live in, who really cares. i have no internet ego to bolster. i buy my parts from teh same places that ya'll do. ONLINE.

i like my welds to look pretty as well, when they are in places that can be seen without crawling under the car.

my whole point is does pretty packaging really matter? seriously, unless you're going to frame your parts instead of installing them, the packaging gets trashed anyway. waste not want not. it's stuff that you're not payign for, stuff that is not built in to already jacked up prices.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
agreed i wouldn't mind knowing what the gross duration, lobe seperation and a few other thigns are. but really, does it mattter that much to me that i am going to run down a reputable company with great customer service on an internet forum?

at least call preston or jeff adn tell them what your beef is with the product.

the only way things get better is by suggesting improvements.

in all reality, it's probably not gruppe-s' packaging, it's the way they come from teh factory where they are packed. bitch about the company that makes them and probabaly packages them, not the salesmen.

as for what backwards swamp i live in, who really cares. i have no internet ego to bolster. i buy my parts from teh same places that ya'll do. ONLINE.

i like my welds to look pretty as well, when they are in places that can be seen without crawling under the car.

my whole point is does pretty packaging really matter? seriously, unless you're going to frame your parts instead of installing them, the packaging gets trashed anyway. waste not want not. it's stuff that you're not payign for, stuff that is not built in to already jacked up prices.
ok i apologize for my jumping at ya. the point though is the fact that these things can get damaged flip flopping around in a bigger box.granted nothing got damaged. i would think though being some of the first to try these things out you might want to make everything look nice,and have some info on them when i call to ask hey what are the specs on these things after i already bought them . it not like i am going to go out and mill a set and start selling them.
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:36 PM   #12
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it's cool mang. i do wish that the cams themselves were packaged a bit better in thier individual boxes, but the big box that everythign came in had nine cubic feet of packing peanuts in it, so i don't think much got banged around.

i have bought a lot of stuff from gruppe-s and they haven't steered me wrong yet.

anyway....mini hijack.....
so you're running the helix cams in a 2.5 L block....what heads? WRX? what are the rest of your engine specs. i am just curious, our build ups seem pretty close, and i wouldn't mind comparing notes.
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
it's cool mang. i do wish that the cams themselves were packaged a bit better in thier individual boxes, but the big box that everythign came in had nine cubic feet of packing peanuts in it, so i don't think much got banged around.

i have bought a lot of stuff from gruppe-s and they haven't steered me wrong yet.

anyway....mini hijack.....
so you're running the helix cams in a 2.5 L block....what heads? WRX? what are the rest of your engine specs. i am just curious, our build ups seem pretty close, and i wouldn't mind comparing notes.

wrx as of right now ,but that might change. if i stay with wrx heads i will port and polish them. i also will be going with a bigger turbo setup 35r,or maybe 65r setup. i am getting all the work done on monday. i will pm ya the details when done so you can see how much torque is going to leave our cars with cams but hp will offset this torque loss
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
my whole point is does pretty packaging really matter? seriously, unless you're going to frame your parts instead of installing them, the packaging gets trashed anyway. waste not want not. it's stuff that you're not payign for, stuff that is not built in to already jacked up prices.
I agree packaging has no real long term affect on how the cams will perform. Its stupid to even talk about it anymore.

Maybe gruppe-s can find out all the specs on these cams since they are Helix's biggest dealer.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
I agree packaging has no real long term affect on how the cams will perform. Its stupid to even talk about it anymore.

Maybe gruppe-s can find out all the specs on these cams since they are Helix's biggest dealer.
oh it does if it damages a lobe on the cam,and i asked for the specs when i called them,and they said they do not have any. oh yeah gruppe-s is helix they should have the specs
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sonic rx
oh it does if it damages a lobe on the cam,and i asked for the specs when i called them,and they said they do not have any. oh yeah gruppe-s is helix they should have the specs
You didnt get any boxes with your cams? If not they have took it up a notch on packaging. I had boxes with each cam, only they were all thrown into an oversized box with the whole bottom end falling out, the UPS guy even said and I quote "the box was packed like crap and whatever is inside is moving around a lot and it knocked the bottom of the box out, so be careful carrying it inside".

But I got 4 little boxes one ziplock baggie of springs and retainers. If mine would have come without the cams individually boxed I would have been a hell of a lot more upset. Ok thats it for me no more about shipping. I would just advise to Helix/gruppe-s to package these items more carefully.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
I just got these today. I was a little dissapointed by the packaging. All the valve springs and retainers were just thrown into a ziplock baggie! Not that this is a big deal but for 1k you would expect everything to be nicely packaged.
Maybe it came from Japan separated and they had to go with secondary alternatives? Especially when Gruppe-S throws your valve springs and retainers into like 10 lbs of peanut packaging, I am sure that they planned on it not going anywhere...ziploc bag is better than no bag or no box in your case and just thrown in with the peanuts for you to search for them . For $1,000 on some really good quality cams is nothing to be complaining about, if you are so worried about the packaging then you should have gone with the Jun's for double the price...I'm pretty sure their's come in a box but without the peanuts. So I guess that is better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
no i don't whine ,and yes i like my welds to look nice even if it is under the car and they are. i payed 900 shipped not a grand you payed more and got the same crap pack job. i don't know what backwoods town you live or buy your parts from ,but i never got a cam,or springs out of a box ,or in a ziploc bag. as for jun i bet you get a cam card with specs ,and the springs will be in a box not a ziploc bag. teh end
Uh obviosuly you do whine and if not that then you get into business that doesn't even have to do with you, but I'm sure we all have seen people like you...so sad find a life better yet find a girl!! If you got the the Helix RNA's for $900 shipped then you must have been one of those whiney one's and trying to beg for a cheaper price for them to give you $100 off their advertised price, especially since the majority of Gruppe-S's products are very low priced and already include the shipping. "i never got a cam,or springs out of a box ,or in a ziploc bag" how many of these have you gone through...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
Exactly!! Im glad to see I wasnt the only one. Thats why I was thrown off. I was expecting the springs and retainers all to be boxed not thrown into a bag. All springs and retainers I have ever seen have been neatly packed and seperated. I was really expecting cam specs as well and was really dissapointed there wasnt a spec sheet.
Again, ziploc bag + peanuts is better than nothing and I am sure if either Helix or Gruppe-S could've included cam specs they would have but yeah I can see your argument there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
what i was beefing about is the fact that when i called gruppe-s they said ' um um the specs are on the site' i said no they are not .i need like a cam card with real specs durations,and all the other vitals.
gruppe-s ' what do ya mean?these cams are 264's duration what else is there to know? we have used them with no problems'.
i replied what about at duration at 50 degrees?
gruppe-s ' what about it ? i don't think we know that info.let me check......... ok there is none available you should be fine with these i have to go ' now that is great customer care, and they build engines. i guess i should buy one of those to i wonder if they have specs on what they are doing with those they need to pull thier heads out of thier rearends,and get some info.i will never buy from them again,and i will offer this info to who ever asks about them.
"beefing about..." who are you Ja Rule? And as far as answering your questions when you called, who was it that you talked to because everytime I called there was some there readily to answer any questions that I may have and if they weren't able to they are able to find out and get back to me on it in a very short amount of time. Maybe you talked to one of the new employees who they just hired that is still learning the ropes of the system and products, if that was the case then yea I can see how this may have happend though I don't believe you had the exact wording of the whole conversation.

btw for such an internet bully, you suck at posting don't double post that's rule #1 for forum posting .

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff
I agree packaging has no real long term affect on how the cams will perform. Its stupid to even talk about it anymore.

Maybe gruppe-s can find out all the specs on these cams since they are Helix's biggest dealer.
I agree with you on that one, way to start a thread and getting it jumped on by some lame ass who has nothing better to do but of course like I said we have seen these kinds of people before and it is pretty sad if you ask me . But back to the main point of you starting this thread, I hope all goes well with your project and keep us updated on how it goes, just not in this thread because I am sure it will be locked soon if people keeping talking crap back and forth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
oh it does if it damages a lobe on the cam,and i asked for the specs when i called them,and they said they do not have any.
Oh it does...if...wow if but it wasn't and we already know you asked them you said that when you were "beefing" about it in your lame double post...we get your point but the final word should be if it's a good product or not? It is Helix and JDM so I would believe it to be...so just kill it and stop coming up with more lame things to say and take my advice GO GET A LIFE!! Go drive your car around...blow off some steam that way, I love doing it!

That's all I have to say, I will just continue sitting back and watch this develop if it is allowed. I just can't stand when I see people jump onto the band wagon and try to start something. But I just want to say Gruppe-S is a very reputable company and they will continue to strive with their quality products and customer service!

OwNt
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d3v3u5
Maybe it came from Japan separated and they had to go with secondary alternatives? Especially when Gruppe-S throws your valve springs and retainers into like 10 lbs of peanut packaging, I am sure that they planned on it not going anywhere...ziploc bag is better than no bag or no box in your case and just thrown in with the peanuts for you to search for them . For $1,000 on some really good quality cams is nothing to be complaining about, if you are so worried about the packaging then you should have gone with the Jun's for double the price...I'm pretty sure their's come in a box but without the peanuts. So I guess that is better...


Uh obviosuly you do whine and if not that then you get into business that doesn't even have to do with you, but I'm sure we all have seen people like you...so sad find a life better yet find a girl!! If you got the the Helix RNA's for $900 shipped then you must have been one of those whiney one's and trying to beg for a cheaper price for them to give you $100 off their advertised price, especially since the majority of Gruppe-S's products are very low priced and already include the shipping. "i never got a cam,or springs out of a box ,or in a ziploc bag" how many of these have you gone through...


Again, ziploc bag + peanuts is better than nothing and I am sure if either Helix or Gruppe-S could've included cam specs they would have but yeah I can see your argument there.


"beefing about..." who are you Ja Rule? And as far as answering your questions when you called, who was it that you talked to because everytime I called there was some there readily to answer any questions that I may have and if they weren't able to they are able to find out and get back to me on it in a very short amount of time. Maybe you talked to one of the new employees who they just hired that is still learning the ropes of the system and products, if that was the case then yea I can see how this may have happend though I don't believe you had the exact wording of the whole conversation.

btw for such an internet bully, you suck at posting don't double post that's rule #1 for forum posting .


I agree with you on that one, way to start a thread and getting it jumped on by some lame ass who has nothing better to do but of course like I said we have seen these kinds of people before and it is pretty sad if you ask me . But back to the main point of you starting this thread, I hope all goes well with your project and keep us updated on how it goes, just not in this thread because I am sure it will be locked soon if people keeping talking crap back and forth.


Oh it does...if...wow if but it wasn't and we already know you asked them you said that when you were "beefing" about it in your lame double post...we get your point but the final word should be if it's a good product or not? It is Helix and JDM so I would believe it to be...so just kill it and stop coming up with more lame things to say and take my advice GO GET A LIFE!! Go drive your car around...blow off some steam that way, I love doing it!

That's all I have to say, I will just continue sitting back and watch this develop if it is allowed. I just can't stand when I see people jump onto the band wagon and try to start something. But I just want to say Gruppe-S is a very reputable company and they will continue to strive with their quality products and customer service!

OwNt

WOW you are a retard. i bought the cams and they came loose in a box with a handful of peanuts not 10 lbs of peanuts second of all i talked to geoff. not that bright about a product they designed.... the issue i have is they are selling a product that they have no info on i called 3 different times to get info on these things and not one person has any idea. this is the first time i have had an issue with them. every other time it has been fine. i am putting together a very exspensive engine for my wrx,and i think knowing the specs on these cams is important. i have built engines for 20+ years and all the cams hundreds of them came with cam cards,and springs all came in boxes. oh yeah i have been married with kids for 13 years. thanks for you wonderful insight!!! i am amazed at how smart you are .thanks OwNt

Last edited by sonic rx; 03-24-2006 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:32 AM   #19
PeteDucati
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If Helix copied Crower - their 264's would be 220 duration at .050" and .400" lift with 110 degree lobe separation.

Those specs are from the Crower Stage II cam card.

As far as "264" telling you everything you need to know - that's bull.. the above numbers are the most important.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
agreed i wouldn't mind knowing what the gross duration, lobe seperation and a few other thigns are. but really, does it mattter that much to me that i am going to run down a reputable company with great customer service on an internet forum?
I would - that's like your motor builder not telling you what compression ratio you're running. Cams are damn important - you may not care to know the specs - but those specs dictate how your motor will run.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:50 AM   #21
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thanks peteducati. i was thinking they either copied crower or jun. the machine shop doing the heads will be able to get some info for me also i hope anyways
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by sonic rx
thanks peteducati. i was thinking they either copied crower or jun. the machine shop doing the heads will be able to get some info for me also i hope anyways
please keep us updated on what they find out! I am curious about the cams too now!
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:19 PM   #23
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will do jigga the car goes in monday.so by the end of the week i should be able to post the specs i do have to say they look nice and clean ,and they do not look like rewelded stockers.
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Old 03-24-2006, 04:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic rx
WOW you are a retard. i bought the cams and they came loose in a box with a handful of peanuts not 10 lbs of peanuts second of all i talked to geoff. not that bright about a product they designed.... the issue i have is they are selling a product that they have no info on i called 3 different times to get info on these things and not one person has any idea. this is the first time i have had an issue with them. every other time it has been fine. i am putting together a very exspensive engine for my wrx,and i think knowing the specs on these cams is important. i have built engines for 20+ years and all the cams hundreds of them came with cam cards,and springs all came in boxes. oh yeah i have been married with kids for 13 years. thanks for you wonderful insight!!! i am amazed at how smart you are .thanks OwNt
Hello,

OK, first issue. We are sorry you were unhappy with the packaging of the cams. We repackage these cams when we get them from Helix. These cams do come in individual boxes and are then put in a box of peanuts but it appears that we need to provide additional pacakaging. Because of your comments, we will provide better packaging from this point foward. Thanks for your feedback.

Second issue. Firstly, we are not Helix. We work very closely with Helix on their product development and in many other arms of the company but we are not their engineers and we do not own the company. Secondly, I also apologize for the lack of information regarding these cams. This is something that we are also not happy about and because of this, we have been in contact with Helix to obtain this information. We hope to have it shortly. Thirdly, I'm fairly certain I never talked to you (or I don't remember talking to you if I did). I don't appreciate being called "not that bright." If our sales reps truly said the things that you say they said, then we owe you an apology. They should have acted more professionally and they will be chastized for that. However, they weren't witholding information; they simply didn't have the specs on the cams.

Again, thanks for your feedback and we apologize that you saw our service and Helix's product unsatisfactory. We are making changes to correct these shortcomings and hope that you will be more satisfied with us in the feature should you decide to give us another chance.

Thanks,

Geoff
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai
my whole point is does pretty packaging really matter? seriously, unless you're going to frame your parts instead of installing them, the packaging gets trashed anyway. waste not want not. it's stuff that you're not payign for, stuff that is not built in to already jacked up prices.
Yes, a poorly packed part has a tendency to bend/break, and you are paying for the packing as it factored into COGS.
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