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Old 03-12-2006, 06:43 PM   #1
Shabib67
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Default Utec+GT35R or UTEC/ECUTEK+GT35R

Hey guys im about to move on up to a gt35r, most likely going with kingpin kit. Damn nice kit. Anyway my current mods are Utec, RFL Turboback exhaust. In addition to the kingpin kit im getting the kinping fmic, apex avcr, helix 860cc injectors, walboro fuel pump, blowthrough maf, hks ssbov and porting my tgvs. Is there any power benefits or any benefits at all of running an ecutek ontop of the utec?
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:45 PM   #2
Physics Junkie
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Yeah, you get to change your AVCS mapping w/ ecutek so you can pick up a few hundred rpm in spool.
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:52 PM   #3
Shabib67
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hmm interesting...
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Old 03-12-2006, 07:59 PM   #4
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I just wen through the same thing recently so I will share my decision making process. I went with the ECUTEK and just removed my UTEC entirely. I stepped up to a SZ55 and bigger injectors, bigMAF, etc. I wanted the ECUTEK because it uses the stock ECUs formidable processing power and made for easy integration of my AVCR. I also never changed maps on the UTEC so that feature was wasted on me as well as the ability of the ECUTEK to scale the injectors seamlessly. If I were gonna run Meth or alcohol or water, I would have run the ECUTEK with the UTEC on top so that I could switch to different maps for different fuels and/or injections.

Good Luck
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:03 PM   #5
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Well i do plan on getting alcohol injection, so i am gonna keep the utec but, i dont know if i wanna spend another $700 just to get the ecutek and the only thing it really does is reduce spool. If the ecutek/utec will yield more power than just a utec than i might go that route.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:18 PM   #6
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I have seen idle problems running the big maf with utec. The I have seen cars idle perfect with the big maf on a reflash. Its probably in the tune but I think the ability to idle correctly and injector scalling the utec doesnt compare with a reflash.

Maybe someone with more knowledge in tuning can correct me if im wrong. But it changed my mind. Im running a built 2.5 bottom end with 820cc injectors and a fp red with 272 duration cams on stock wrx heads. I was originally going with a utec but I have decided to use Cobb street tuner software instead, after seeing my friend with a 35r kit almost pull his hair out with idle issues with the utec + big maf.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:30 PM   #7
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If you want stock like driveability and a smoother transition from the crossover then ECUTek plus UTEC is the only way to go. If you dont mind a crappy idle or the crossover delay then stay with just the UTEC. The software support for both the UTEC and ECUTek suck, so neither is better than the other. Its been a couple of years since there has been an update for the UTEC and several years since ECUTek have been promising the ability to change maps and make minor changes to your maps via Deltadash for the STi. Both companies are a disappointment if you ask me.

-Matt
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:33 PM   #8
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Well if you get stock like drivability then i guess i will go with the ecutek/utec also reduced spool times doesnt hurt.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:34 PM   #9
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This is kind of topic but would adding headers be beneficial in anyway?
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:35 PM   #10
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Also with ECUTek when you do the TGV deletes you can just toss the sensors and motors all together and turn out the CEL's with the ECUTek software. Not to mention all the other CEL's you can turn off such as the rear O2 sensor code.

-Matt
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:37 PM   #11
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An aftermarket exhaust manifold wont make much of a difference. If you do go with an aftermarket manifold have it coated otherwise it will effect your spool time in a negative way. Stock is usually the best way to go.

-Matt
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:48 PM   #12
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I'm running an ecutek/utec combo, no problems. I have amazing spool on a GT35R, probably from the ecutek tuning by Doug at TopSpeed. $700 extra is a lot of money, I'd probably start with the utec and see how it goes.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:37 AM   #13
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With that setup, you should be investing in a wideband 02 sensor for your UTEC. If you're willing to ditch the UTEC all together, I'd get a stand alone like a Hydra. Integrated wideband.
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Old 03-13-2006, 10:41 AM   #14
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reflash+UTEC=HEAVEN.

Yes get a wideband 100%, you need it.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:36 AM   #15
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I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabib67
I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?
Wideband is like another gauge... it's nice to know that if for some reason your AFR's change, something is going wrong and you don't want to beat on the car.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:59 AM   #17
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If you are going to even remotely use diff maps I would suggest a third option. An Access port. Ecutec has no map switching hence the need for the UTEC. Also if you change your mind you cannot sell your ECUTEC license (swap ECU's due to the immobilizer on 05 and 06 ECU's). AP you can unmarry and sell. Also you can have half a dozen base maps and many real time maps. So if you sell your UTEC you will be enough to pretty much buy an AP.

Cheers

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Old 03-13-2006, 02:33 PM   #18
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Yeah what Nick said^^^^. Scrap the whole ecutek idea completely and get protuned with an AP.
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Old 03-13-2006, 02:50 PM   #19
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so you guys are saying use a AP protune/utec or just the protune itself. Also will the protune be able to tune AVCS and make the car drive like stock and do you need to get the street tuner as well?
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:38 PM   #20
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I would just use the AP alone unless for some reason you already have a UTEC. THe AP is just like the ECUTek except it will hold more than one map and you actually get a piece of hardware (oh wait, isnt it cheaper too ). It's a reflash device so the tuner can tune AVCS and everything that the ECUTek replash is capable of! You do NOT need the street tuner.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:45 PM   #21
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What about a Vishnu Xede?

I like them cause they have pretty colored lights that turn off and on while driving


The AP seems to be the way to go for most people
If you don't like it...the APs also have a killer resale.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:47 PM   #22
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I do have the utec. My mind is set AP/UTEC is the way to go. Why use one when you can use both.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabib67
I thought you only need a wideband if you are going to do the tuning yourself. Second i was gonna go with a hydra but the fact that its no OBD-II compliant, costs more to tune and gets rid of the cruise control is not very appealing. Lastly this is again of topic but will a ACT Max Street Clutch be able to hold all the power?
You use the cruise control ?

Anyways, switching to your factory ECU and changing your injectors isn't hard.

Before you make your decision on EM, chat with some people who have tried different versions.

Newbie Subie has a 2.5l hybrid WRX with a rotated GT turbo. He's had a UTEC, ECUTEK, Vishnu, and a Hydra. When I asked him about the difference between them, he told me ithe Hydra was hands down the best EM. Hydra's themselves aren't what makes them so great. It's Phil at Element Tuning. Plus losing the need of the factory MAF sensor and going 100% map based is worth losing the cruise control. No more having to worry about intakes making your car run lean, and other irritating MAF based issues. The Hydra also has AVCS conrol, and Phil has been able to tune the larger rotated setups where the AVCS has been able to improve full boost by up to 500 rpms! That's a huge difference since you want that boost as long as you can.

Having Phil protune your car may be more than the tuner you use, but most people would agree he's one of the best tuners in the country. Maybe it's not worth having one of the best Subaru tuners in the country tune a stage 2 WRX, but anyone with a rotated setup would yield large gains. Hell, I'm only getting a bolt-on turbo for my setup and I still will have Phil tune my car.


Any case, any of them are good. If you don't want to know what's going on with your setup, but you just want to have somebody tune it, then you'll be fine without it. I personally don't trust that any tune will be the best tune for all conditions. You may start to have issues, and having to bring it to a tuner every time can be a pain.

Last edited by keaniegenie; 03-13-2006 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:53 PM   #24
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Just to let you know I had issues when I tried to use both UTEC and Cobb AP. The car lost controller over the PE 850 injectors and would just dump fuel. Did it bad enough so that the car wouldn't start at all, it would just pour a river of fuel out the exhaust.

My setup may not have been setup right for the two to work together, but I just removed the UTEC and went with the Cobb AP. Cars runs fine with just the AP, the only thing I really lost was launch control and Cobb is working on that from what I have heard.

I am doing a similar build now and I am going to just use the Cobb AP to run the show.

Good luck with your build, your car should be sick!
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Old 03-13-2006, 10:08 PM   #25
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hydra
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