Maddad header vs GP Moto header?

[wrxgeo]

Ok - so I have a fairly stock '03WRX. My mods are a HKS cat-back with Helix downpipe and Cobb stage 2 EM. I also have a turboxs cast iron uppipe that I'll be replacing with the headers.

I want to do headers and some local tuning but can't decide on which header to choose although I've narrowed it down to two.

I'm looking at the Maddad Velocity header and the GP Moto equal length header to replace my turboxs cast iron uppipe and stock manifolds.

I don't plan on doing any other mods at this point, so the Maddad set-up looks optimal, but my tuner said he thinks he cold squeeze out a few more horses out of the equal length header. Seems right - any car I've ever had has always had bigger gains from the equal length pipes.

I don't care about sound and please no one try to convince me not to get headers based on that. In fact I wish my car was a little quieter for the most part. HOWEVER I am concerned about fit and finish.

Which header is less likely to leak, easier to install, etc? I hate leaks!

Your opinion is appreciated, and I'll be glad to do a write up/photoshoot on the install and performance numbers, etc!

Also does anyone have a number for Daddys SCP?

-Geo

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[jstbstn]

I've dealt with Rich at Daddy's on quite a few items and he's been a great help and person to deal with. His products always seem very good with respect to fit and performance. I've never talked to him by phone though, he answers emails pretty quickly usually.

[line]

The GP Moto headers are just sexy, those would be my bet with a nice coating to try and keep lag to a minimum.

[comradeboris]

i could be wrong but i thought i saw somewhere that the maddad design was pretty much an equal length header

[vipernj]

isnt there also like a $500 difference?

[wrxgeo]

OK - for sure - the maddad is an unequal length w/ velocity stack. It is a 2 piece system with up pipe included. Price is $499 (uncoated). The GP moto is an equal length one peice system with up-pipe integrated - I can get it for $679.

Anyone have either header long enough to see if leaks might develop? i.e. longer than an oil change...

-Geo

[comradeboris]

one cool thing that i know is the maddad warranty is 2 years and if you get it coated (putting it at near the same price as the gp moto) it is completely covered by the warranty if it cracks. im seriously looking into getting the maddad myself.

[wrxgeo]

Originally Posted by comradeboris

one cool thing that i know is the maddad warranty is 2 years and if you get it coated (putting it at near the same price as the gp moto) it is completely covered by the warranty if it cracks. im seriously looking into getting the maddad myself.

Looks like 2 to 1 in favor of the Maddad so far. I spoke to a few vendors and they all mentioned the maddad/Gt spec header is much easier to install and seem to have better feedback. My only concern is a leak at the uppipe flange. Am I paranoid about leaks or what?!!!

As for the coating - I think this may be another reason for the maddad. Heh - my gut tells me the GP motos will make more power though : - /

Thanks for everyones comments so far.

-Geo

[comradeboris]

fyi on a stage 2 car you are not making enough power to make the equal length a noticable change from the other header. from what i have read the gains from a header are mostly seen once you are running a larger turbo setup. one other thing to consider (i dont know if you have) is a heat coating and PnP from someone like crucial.

[scooterforever]

I am running what I *think* are GP Moto equal length headers. I say "think" because I was not the original owner. I have generally been pleased, and will provide details below. As for the MadDad Velocity header, I have heard awesome things about this header. Plus, Rich @ Daddy's is extremely customer friendly. It is a very easy shop to do business with. My tuner (Franz @ KTR) has some dyno charts for this header (look at www.ktrperformance.com for their header dyno graph, it's there somewhere. Keep in mind that the KTR dyno is heartbreaker, it's a really conservative dyno (which I actually like, but don't try to compare their dyno numbers with say a dynoject -- the VF-34's putting out 270 whp on their dyno would put 300+ whp on other more generous dynos).

Final comment I have on the MadDad products: I am running his version 1 high flow metal substrate cat DP, his 3CE and a Borla Hush I purchased from him. His products are extremely well made, very well designed, and backed with excellent service.

As for my GP Moto or, GP Moto-style (wish I knew for sure) header, my thoughts:

1) I love the sound, but most subie owners I think would hate it. The gurgle of the exhaust is not completely gone, but is now subtle. It does NOT sound like a Honda. To me, it is the sound of quiet death stalking the mustang in the lane next to me (sorry, drag season here starts next week, I'm excited).
2) it is significantly quieter, through the loss of the doubling up of exhaust pulses (1, 2, 3, 4 in place of 1, 2, pause, 3-4)
3) I lost low end torque, which is to be expected with aftermarket headers I think. You gain at the top end.
4) the slip joints in my setup are welded. This may increase the possibility of weld fatigue over time, as the header has less room to expand and contract with heat changes. That's a theoretical topic of debate.

Also, if you want a similar style but cheaper equal length headers, I have actually heard positive things about the OBX equal lenght headers sold on ebay for $350 or so.

Finally, although I have been pleased with the GP Moto-style headers, I have decided to try another length approach that reduces the length of tubing compared to the traditional style of equal length heaers: I just bought Fujitsubo equal length headers. These are obscenely expensive, but I found a set at the right price and took the plunge. I will post a full review, and comparison with data logs, on the spool-up time of the Fujitsubo compared to my current setup.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on. Good luck, you have many excellent options.

[Bishop]

here are some pics of rich's header. seriously you won't be disappointed. his costomer service is top notch. he will be coming out with a new version soon.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8&postcount=74









egt tapped in the #4 cyl. closest to the driver.

here are some results from dyno day back in june. iic it was 75-80 degrees that day. also remember we're runing 91oct. piss water here.

1.) 10am - Drews_WRX (Vishnu stg 1 WRX) 225whp, 226wtrq
2.) ~10:45am - sonicwrx03 (Charlie-WRX-up,tbe,AEM cai,bov) 211whp, 217wtrq
3.) ~11:30am -Converted (WRX-UP, DP, Perrin FMIC, tuned by Kingpin)
4.) ~12:15pm -AgentFixer(Mark-WRX COBB stg2,up,tbe) 221whp 217wtrq
5.) ~2pm -Potterman (Mike - 04 STI-uppipe, Deadbolt VF39,TBE,pulley, Ecutek,k&n. ~260whp, ~260wtrq
6.) ~2:45pm -J*Bishop(Vince-WRX-ic hoses,header,UP,DP,TBE,cobbAP stg2) 228whp 231wtrq
7.) ~3:30pm -subiestyle(Will-WRX-VF39,FMIC,Ecutek) 280whp, 266wtrq????
8.) ~4:15pm -mosqito16(Eric-COBB stg2 WRX,up,tbe) 217whp 214wtrq
10.) ~5:45pm -Kenlee(Kenlee-STI-dbtd06-20g, UTEC) 368whp 398wtrq!!!!!
14.)~9:30pm - ZannduReX02 (Brian - WRX - up,TXS stealback,cai) 211whp 217wtrq
15.)~10pm MagicNinja (EVO) 297whp 277wtrq

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786869

[Daddy's SCP]

Hi guys,

First thing: 978-549-6120 is where we can be reached. Always leave a callback number if you get vm because the days are nutso.

In regard to the Velocity header it is out of stock and undergoing chages to separate it from products form other brands with the same overall design. The 48mm uppipe with velocity stack is being updated to exclusively for MadDad(TM) as a 45mm while still maintaining a velocity stack. We'll have a couple of one-off pipes to dyno test in the 30-45 days. We're hopeful this will produce one of the strongest low-ends of any header availble. The manifold it self is being updated to include a pre-fitted EGT bung to make the install of an EGT as easy as installing a boost gauge. For current Velocity header owners we will be making the uppipe available separate so that everyone can benefit from what should be a positive increase in low-end torque and faster turbo spool. If all goes as currently schedule the new design will be availale end of June. There will be a small increase in price but it will be to the tune of about $30. A pre-orde deal will be made availble with the usual discounts and free freight so if your in the market you may want to hold out for a bit. We will be distributing this header along with the rest of the MadDad(TM) line to select number of installer/resellers during the second half of 2006 so you might even be able to buy it locally.

Rich

[JNUTZ]

Okay, so you already have a ton of feedback, but one more isn't going to hurt. I am running the GP Moto header/up-pipe and have great results. Also just running stage 2 with Utec. When I had it tuned I was told that they saw 10-15 whp gain than all the other cars with the same mods, other than the headers, ie: headers= 10-15whp. I'm sure that figure changes with every dyno and with different mods, but I've had great results with it and it sounds good too. There are a lot of people using these headers. Good luck on which ever route you go.

John

[MachinesWRX]

Hey Daddys SCP, will your new version be full equal length?? if so im in!