help understanding 100 load column and MAP sensor

AaronWRX · 03-26-2006, 03:59 PM

Check out this dyno plot and the utec log:

Code:

					Load Knock				Mod   Mod		 Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
	   psia  V   %			   deg   duty   deg	%   (CL)	V  

 2039  +1.3 2.4 105  10	00   +36.8	8.6 +31.0  -2.9 445.00 2.3  14.45
 2037  +1.5 2.5 105  10	00   +37.3	9.0 +31.0  -2.9 445.00 2.3  14.49
 2074  +1.7 2.5 105  20	00   +37.4	9.0 +30.5  -3.6 445.00 2.4  14.70
 2156  +1.9 2.5 105  20	00   +38.6	9.2 +30.0  -3.8 445.00 2.4  15.02
 2201  +1.9 2.6 104  20	00   +38.8	9.4 +29.0  -4.0 445.00 2.3  15.31
 2206  +2.1 2.5 104  20	00   +39.1	9.9 +28.0  -4.6 445.00 2.4  15.50
 2238  +2.3 2.6 105  20	00   +39.3	9.8 +27.9  -4.6 445.00 2.4  15.65
 2305  +2.3 2.6 105  20	00   +39.8   10.5 +27.7  -4.5 445.00 2.4  15.80
 2391  +2.5 2.7 105  20	00   +39.8   10.9 +27.5  -4.4 445.00 2.5  15.94
 2417  +2.7 2.7 104  20	00   +39.3   11.6 +27.4  -4.3 445.00 2.5  15.87
 2476  +2.7 2.7 103  20	00   +38.9   12.2 +27.2  -4.2 445.00 2.5  15.65
 2469  +3.1 2.8 105  20	00   +38.2   12.6 +27.1  -5.0 445.00 2.5  15.58
 2525  +3.3 2.8 104  20	00   +37.5   13.2 +27.0  -4.1 445.00 2.6  15.65
 2643  +3.7 2.8 104  30	00   +36.9   13.7 +23.0  -4.3 445.00 2.6  15.80
 2618  +4.1 2.9 105  30	00   +36.5   14.2 +23.0  -4.7 445.00 2.7  15.87
 2730  +4.5 2.9 103  30	00   +35.6   14.3 +23.0  -5.0 445.00 2.7  15.80
 2725  +5.1 3.0 104  30	00   +34.7   16.5 +23.0  -5.0 445.00 2.8  15.24
 2841  +5.5 3.1 104  40	00   +33.1   19.3 +20.0  -4.8 445.00 2.8  14.74
 2911  +6.2 3.2 105  40	00   +31.6   21.4 +20.0  -5.4 445.00 2.9  14.00
 2994  +7.0 3.2 105  40	00   +30.4   23.3 +20.0  -6.0 445.00 3.0  13.20
 3077  +8.2 3.3 103  50	00   +29.4   26.2 +18.0  -6.4 445.00 3.1  12.71
 3147  +9.2 3.5 104  60	00   +27.2   28.1 +16.0  -5.0 445.00 3.2  12.45
 3217 +10.6 3.6 103  60	00   +25.0   30.6 +16.0  -3.3 445.00 3.3  12.00
 3333 +12.3 3.6 104  80	00   +20.8   35.7 +13.2  -1.4 445.00 3.4  11.56
 3411 +13.7 3.7 104  90	00   +18.3   41.5 +13.4  -0.9 445.00 3.6  11.18
 3505 +15.9 3.8 104  90	00   +15.5   43.8 +13.5  -0.5 445.00 3.7  10.73
 3599 +18.0 4.0 103 100	00   +12.7   49.2 +13.5  +0.2 445.00 4.0  10.56
 3736 +20.0 3.9 103 100	00   +13.4   52.9 +14.1  +0.2 445.00 3.6  10.45
 3907 +21.7 4.3 104 100	00   +14.6   42.3 +14.3  -0.3 445.00 3.5  10.36
 4001 +23.1 4.1 103 100	00   +17.0   40.3 +15.6  -1.8 445.00 4.1  10.64
 4135 +23.5 3.8 102 100	00   +17.3   65.8 +16.0  -2.4 445.00 3.8  11.02
 4278 +23.5 4.2 103 100	00   +16.6   65.7 +16.4  -3.0 445.00 3.9  11.01
 4403 +23.9 4.2 103 100	00   +17.2   66.7 +16.7  -3.2 445.00 3.9  10.76
 4462 +23.7 4.1 103 100	00   +18.5   64.0 +17.0  -3.3 445.00 4.0  10.89
 4623 +23.7 4.2 104 100	00   +20.4   68.4 +17.7  -3.5 445.00 4.0  10.93
 4761 +23.3 4.3 104 100	00   +21.2   70.3 +18.2  -3.7 445.00 4.1  10.93
 4916 +23.1 4.4 103 100	00   +22.0   73.4 +19.2  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.05
 5050 +23.3 4.4 102 100	00   +19.1   76.0 +20.0  -4.7 445.00 4.1  10.99
 5159 +23.1 4.4 104 100	00   +18.4   75.6 +20.0  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.02
 5316 +23.5 4.5 104 100	00   +18.4   75.4 +20.2  -3.8 445.00 4.1  11.17
 5455 +23.5 4.5 103 100    01   +18.0   81.2 +16.4  -3.7 445.00 4.1  11.23
 5537 +23.3 4.5 103 100	00   +17.1   79.0 +16.8  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.08
 5698 +23.7 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   80.8 +17.3  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.02
 5858 +23.9 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   81.2 +21.5  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.11
 5931 +23.5 4.5 102 100	00   +15.9   83.7 +21.5  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.17
 6289 +23.3 4.6 103 100	00   +15.8   88.2 +21.5  -3.5 445.00 4.3  11.23
 6105 +23.1 4.6 103 100	00   +16.8   84.4 +21.9  -3.5 445.00 4.3  11.20
 6289 +22.3 4.6 103 100	00   +18.0   87.7 +22.6  -3.5 445.00 4.3  11.12
 6385 +23.1 4.6 103 100	00   +19.5   88.1 +23.2  -3.5 445.00 4.3  11.11
 6535 +22.7 4.6 102 100	00   +21.2   88.0 +23.3  -3.5 445.00 4.3  11.11
 6706 +22.7 4.6 105 100	00   +22.2   87.9 +23.5  -3.3 445.00 4.3  11.11
 6872 +23.1 4.6 104 100	00   +24.0   88.8 +23.5  -3.2 445.00 4.3  11.17
 6734 +22.7 4.6 104 100	00   +25.3   85.6 +23.5  -3.2 445.00 4.3  11.24
 7077 +22.5 4.6 103 100	00   +25.9   85.8 +23.5  -3.2 445.00 4.3  11.28
 7137 +22.7 4.6 103 100	00   +26.2   82.4 +23.5  -3.2 445.00 4.3  11.37

even at lower boost, less timing, and richer AFRs i'm in the 100 load column:

Code:

					Load Knock				Mod   Mod		 Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
	   psia  V   %			   deg   duty   deg	%   (CL)	V  

 2387  +1.9 2.6 103  20	00   +42.2   10.0 +27.6  -4.4 360.00 2.4  15.94
 2410  +2.1 2.7 103  20	00   +41.3   11.0 +27.4  -4.3 360.00 2.5  15.94
 2450  +2.3 2.7 103  20	00   +41.2   11.1 +27.2  -4.2 360.00 2.5  15.87
 2472  +2.7 2.7 103  20	00   +40.7   11.5 +27.2  -4.1 360.00 2.5  15.80
 2525  +2.7 2.7 102  20	00   +39.8   11.7 +27.0  -4.2 360.00 2.5  15.80
 2558  +2.9 2.8 103  20	00   +39.7   12.1 +27.0  -4.3 360.00 2.5  15.94
 2639  +2.9 2.8 103  20	00   +39.3   12.7 +27.0  -4.6 360.00 2.6  16.11
 2668  +3.1 2.8 103  20	00   +38.7   13.4 +27.0  -4.7 360.00 2.6  16.27
 2736  +3.5 2.8 103  30	00   +37.9   14.6 +23.0  -4.9 360.00 2.6  16.36
 2750  +3.9 2.9 103  30	00   +36.9   15.0 +23.0  -5.4 360.00 2.7  16.11
 2839  +4.1 3.0 103  30	00   +36.1   16.6 +23.0  -5.6 360.00 2.7  15.65
 2893  +4.5 3.1 102  30	00   +35.4   18.0 +23.0  -6.0 360.00 2.7  14.83
 2936  +5.1 3.1 103  30	00   +34.9   20.4 +23.0  -6.8 360.00 2.9  14.33
 3030  +5.5 3.3 103  40	00   +33.8   22.2 +20.0  -6.3 360.00 2.9  13.81
 3118  +6.6 3.2 103  40	00   +32.9   24.2 +20.0  -6.3 360.00 3.0  13.28
 3174  +7.6 3.4 103  50	00   +32.3   25.0 +18.0  -5.9 360.00 3.1  12.81
 3245  +8.6 3.4 102  60	00   +31.9   27.1 +16.0  -4.6 360.00 3.1  12.37
 3360  +9.6 3.5 103  60	00   +29.3   28.9 +16.3  -4.2 360.00 3.2  12.05
 3425 +10.8 3.6 103  70	00   +27.7   34.7 +14.7  -0.8 360.00 3.4  11.77
 3501 +12.1 3.7 103  70	00   +21.9   39.6 +15.0  -0.2 360.00 3.4  11.45
 3588 +13.5 3.7 103  80	00   +19.7   42.0 +14.0  +0.0 360.00 3.7  10.89
 3703 +15.3 3.7 102  90	00   +19.0   44.7 +13.5  +0.5 360.00 3.6  10.55
 3741 +16.8 3.8 102 100	00   +20.4   44.0 +13.9  +0.3 360.00 3.7  10.73
 3889 +17.6 3.8 103 100	00   +20.4   47.7 +14.5  -0.3 360.00 3.6  10.81
 4001 +18.6 3.8 103 100	00   +22.3   48.5 +15.7  -2.3 360.00 3.5  10.71
 4079 +18.4 3.8 102 100	00   +22.1   55.9 +15.9  -1.9 360.00 3.5  10.80
 4192 +18.8 3.9 102 100	00   +20.1   58.2 +16.3  -2.3 360.00 3.7  10.65
 4290 +19.2 3.9 102 100	00   +22.8   55.8 +16.5  -2.5 360.00 3.7  10.36
 4415 +18.8 3.9 102 100	00   +22.2   57.6 +16.5  -2.3 360.00 3.8  10.49
 4474 +19.2 4.0 103 100	00   +20.8   57.4 +16.5  -2.9 360.00 3.8  10.65
 4604 +18.8 4.0 102 100	00   +22.3   62.6 +17.0  -2.5 360.00 3.8  10.55
 4714 +18.8 4.1 102 100	00   +22.6   61.7 +17.2  -2.9 360.00 3.9  10.65
 4761 +18.4 4.1 102 100	00   +24.4   64.4 +17.5  -3.7 360.00 3.9  10.89
 4909 +18.0 4.2 102  90	00   +23.6   68.7 +17.8  -3.5 360.00 4.0  10.83
 5012 +18.0 4.3 102 100	00   +24.4   67.9 +17.5  -3.8 360.00 3.9  10.62
 5192 +17.6 4.3 102 100	00   +24.7   70.3 +17.5  -3.8 360.00 4.0  10.64
 5282 +18.0 4.3 102 100	00   +25.1   71.2 +17.5  -3.4 360.00 4.0  10.87
 5367 +18.6 4.3 102 100	00   +24.7   73.7 +17.5  -3.5 360.00 4.1  10.96
 5509 +18.6 4.3 102 100	00   +24.6   73.4 +17.6  -3.3 360.00 4.1  10.87
 5602 +19.4 4.4 102 100	00   +24.2   73.8 +17.9  -3.3 360.00 4.1  10.83
 5717 +19.4 4.4 102 100	00   +24.3   73.1 +18.1  -3.3 360.00 4.1  10.86
 5807 +20.2 4.4 103 100	00   +24.2   77.9 +18.8  -3.2 360.00 4.1  10.90
 5931 +20.2 4.4 102 100	00   +24.3   77.6 +19.8  -3.2 360.00 4.2  10.93
 6082 +19.8 4.5 102 100	00   +24.1   81.1 +19.8  -3.4 360.00 4.2  10.93
 6161 +19.8 4.5 102 100	00   +24.1   82.7 +20.7  -3.2 360.00 4.2  10.93
 6277 +19.8 4.5 102 100	00   +25.0   85.1 +21.0  -3.4 360.00 4.2  10.95
 6385 +20.4 4.5 102 100	00   +25.9   84.1 +21.0  -3.5 360.00 4.2  11.02
 6349 +20.0 4.6 102 100	00   +26.5   85.1 +21.0  -3.5 360.00 4.2  11.08
 6548 +20.8 4.5 102 100	00   +27.4   83.9 +21.0  -3.5 360.00 4.3  11.11
 6510 +20.2 4.6 102 100	00   +28.7   86.7 +21.0  -3.5 360.00 4.3  11.14
 6561 +19.8 4.6 102 100	00   +29.3   85.4 +21.1  -3.4 360.00 4.3  11.20
 6958 +20.4 4.6 103 100	00   +31.0   84.9 +21.1  -3.4 360.00 4.3  11.28
 7062 +20.8 4.6 103 100	00   +31.5   83.4 +21.5  -3.4 360.00 4.3  11.37
 7077 +20.8 4.7 104 100	00   +31.7   83.1 +21.5  -3.4 360.00 4.2  11.52
 7507 +17.2 3.0   0  00	00   +22.9   10.9 ECU.   -3.9 265.00 1.7  11.96
 6858  +9.4 3.8   0  00	00   +23.2   36.5 ECU.   -3.9 ECU.   2.7  13.47

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXTuning

IMHO: If you are doing anything over 22-23psi with the UTEC, you should get the UTEC 4.5 bar sensor. Otherwise, you have no resolution. It was nice having a seperate column for 26psi and 28psi, especially on fueling.

So my question is should I care? I don't plan on running this turbo over 24psi.

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kcook · 03-26-2006, 07:24 PM

clear ur PM box aaron , have something really important to ask u

AaronWRX · 03-26-2006, 08:38 PM

some pm's cleared.

ShaggyGT · 03-26-2006, 09:19 PM

I am pretty sure there is a way to recalibrate your MAP. I believe you can raise the maximum psi and that should give you more resolution. I checked the manual but the instructions for calibrating the MAP is somewhat vague, atleast for me.

I have also not heard anything of a 4.5bar MAP sensor for anything other than the D-TEC and it is only for logging high boost.

-Matt

ShaggyGT · 03-26-2006, 09:21 PM

Here is what it says in the user manual:

MAP Calibration
1. To calibrate the MAP sensor you need an accurate boost/vacuum gauge (note that 0
psi is atmospheric pressure), a UTEC and a PC.
2. Turn ON the ignition but do not start the car. Record the pressure reading (P0) in
psi on the gauge and the MAP value (M0) under logger #4.
3. Start the car.
4. As an alternative measurement for P0. Place the engine under vacuum and record
the pressure reading (P0) in psi on the gauge and the MAP value (M0) under logger
#4.
5. Place the engine under boost and record the pressure reading (P1) in psi on the
gauge and the MAP value (M1) under logger #4. Try to find a stable reading for this
in boost.
6. Ideally the two measurement points should be as far apart as possible.
7. The gradient is calculated as follows;
Gradient = 1000 * (P1 – P0) / (M1 – M0)
Note that this number is rounded off to the nearest whole number.
8. The intercept is calculated as follows;
Intercept = ((Gradient * M0) - (1000 * P0)) / 100
Note that this number is rounded off to the nearest whole number.

There is no note about being able to raise your maximum boost in order to allow more headroom in the maps. I do recall reading about it here on the forum though, back when I was running a UTEC on my WRX.

What is your "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping (psi)" ?

-Matt

VWGrk1 · 03-27-2006, 10:27 AM

I'm not sure if you should care or not. I mean, if you got tuned like this and the tune works well, then why change things up? Maybe adjust your tune a bit. Do you knock often in the same spot?

Perhaps not so much for the OP's benefit, but it seems like a couple of different issues are being presented here. The reason for the new MAP sensor is to accurately read boost levels above 23 or so psi. The stock MAP sensor may report, say, 25 psi to the UTEC and that is what you will see in the log, but is it an honest 25 psi? The experts say no.

Increasing the range of psi actually reduces resolution. You have to fit a larger psi range in each load column, though the UTEC tries to average the two sites for in-between boost levels. Load site is determined by what boost level you hit, not the other way around. So, if you set your max at a low level (like at 10psi, which you would never ordinarily do), then anytime your boost passes 10 psi the fueling and timing will come from the 100% load site. This is terrible since it will apply the same fueling / timing for 12psi, 18 psi, 24 psi, etc.... However, below 10 psi, each pound of boost would have its own load site and fueling / timing would be spot-on (great resolution in the 10 and below psi range).

In PDX's case that you quoted, he can safely run more boost because he knows for sure that he is hitting either 26 or 28 psi. He can run optimal timing / fuel for each of those boost levels.

Feel free to correct anything if I mis-spoke as I am no expert.

AaronWRX · 03-27-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VWGrk1

I'm not sure if you should care or not. I mean, if you got tuned like this and the tune works well, then why change things up? Maybe adjust your tune a bit. Do you knock often in the same spot?

Perhaps not so much for the OP's benefit, but it seems like a couple of different issues are being presented here. The reason for the new MAP sensor is to accurately read boost levels above 23 or so psi. The stock MAP sensor may report, say, 25 psi to the UTEC and that is what you will see in the log, but is it an honest 25 psi? The experts say no.

Increasing the range of psi actually reduces resolution. You have to fit a larger psi range in each load column, though the UTEC tries to average the two sites for in-between boost levels. Load site is determined by what boost level you hit, not the other way around. So, if you set your max at a low level (like at 10psi, which you would never ordinarily do), then anytime your boost passes 10 psi the fueling and timing will come from the 100% load site. This is terrible since it will apply the same fueling / timing for 12psi, 18 psi, 24 psi, etc.... However, below 10 psi, each pound of boost would have its own load site and fueling / timing would be spot-on (great resolution in the 10 and below psi range).

In PDX's case that you quoted, he can safely run more boost because he knows for sure that he is hitting either 26 or 28 psi. He can run optimal timing / fuel for each of those boost levels.

Feel free to correct anything if I mis-spoke as I am no expert.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. It seems to me that if I wanted to do a race gas tune it might be nice to have accurate boost readings in the utec log though I believe my boost gauge is accurate. It's just nice to have all the data in one place.

Another thing it may buy me is another fuel column to play with because right now i'm using the same fuel column for 18 psi as I do 23 psi.

I'm def going to look at my map parameters as shaggy suggested to. I'll report back.

cdvma · 03-27-2006, 12:54 PM

Doesn't have anything to do with calibration. What is your max PSI for mapping set in the UTEC parameters? You apparently have it set to the stock value of 20 and have no resolution between 18 and 23 PSI. If I were you I'd rescale it and get that resolution back. Your load site also has nothing to do with timing or AFR, its all MAP based load.

x99percent · 03-27-2006, 01:10 PM

IIRC, the defaults are...
0psi for "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping"
18psi for "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping"

What this gives you is...

Code:

 10%    20%     30%     40%    ...    80%       90%      100%
<2psi  2-4psi  4-6psi  6-8psi  ...  14-16psi  16-18psi  >18psi

If you really want to keep resolution, try this:
Set "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping" to 6psi
Set "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping" to 24psi
Leave your timing map set to "ECU" for 0% and 10%, 0-4000rpm.

Now, your ranges for mapping should be...

Code:

 10%    20%      30%       40%      ...    80%       90%      100%
<8psi  8-10psi  10-12psi  12-14psi  ...  20-22psi  22-24psi  >24psi

AaronWRX · 03-27-2006, 01:17 PM

I'll def check it out later. Thanks for all the advice. Seems like when I do this i'll be tossing out the turboxs tune I paid for a couple weeks ago. I wonder why they didnt give me some headroom.

x99percent · 03-27-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronWRX

I'll def check it out later. Thanks for all the advice. Seems like when I do this i'll be tossing out the turboxs tune I paid for a couple weeks ago. I wonder why they didnt give me some headroom.

Much of the old map will be salvagable because many of the load columns still match up.

40% --> 10%
50% --> 20%
etc..

Freon · 03-27-2006, 02:08 PM

It looks like you're hitting 100 load column at only ~18psi.

Remember, the MAP in your UTEC log is what the UTEC thinks. If the UTEC is calibrated wrong, it will show MAP wrong.

And the load column is going to go off what the UTEC thinks. In the parameters, you simply must have your MAX PSI FOR MAPPING set to about 18psi.

Step #1 is to make sure your UTEC MAP is calibrated.
Step #2 is to set the MAX PSI FOR MAPPING parameter to about 22 psi.

Remember the 10% load column takes over for the ECU when your TPS crossover is met, NOT when MAP reaches your "MIN PSI FOR MAPPING". Keep that in mind when setting your MIN PSI setting. If you are setting it more than 0psi, I suggest putting "ECU" in the timing map for the 10% column.

VWGrk1 · 03-27-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronWRX

I'll def check it out later. Thanks for all the advice. Seems like when I do this i'll be tossing out the turboxs tune I paid for a couple weeks ago. I wonder why they didnt give me some headroom.

Given this information, I'd be tentative about changing anything. I mean, who should know the UTEC better than TXS. Besides, if it is running well except for this one knock, then just tell them about it and ask for their advice. You did not say if this is recurring or not. Maybe false knock?

You paid good money to get a knock-free tune and they should make good on it, though it may come at the expense of a few whp. That would be a good trade-off: more safety for a few less whp.

TypeC · 03-27-2006, 03:06 PM

What is your setup (specifically, turbo)? I ask because you're only making 4.5 at 23psi at peak power.

Code:

 4462 +23.7 4.1 103 100	00   +18.5   64.0 +17.0  -3.3 445.00 4.0  10.89
 4623 +23.7 4.2 104 100	00   +20.4   68.4 +17.7  -3.5 445.00 4.0  10.93
 4761 +23.3 4.3 104 100	00   +21.2   70.3 +18.2  -3.7 445.00 4.1  10.93
 4916 +23.1 4.4 103 100	00   +22.0   73.4 +19.2  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.05
 5050 +23.3 4.4 102 100	00   +19.1   76.0 +20.0  -4.7 445.00 4.1  10.99
 5159 +23.1 4.4 104 100	00   +18.4   75.6 +20.0  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.02
 5316 +23.5 4.5 104 100	00   +18.4   75.4 +20.2  -3.8 445.00 4.1  11.17
 5455 +23.5 4.5 103 100 01   +18.0   81.2 +16.4  -3.7 445.00 4.1  11.23
 5537 +23.3 4.5 103 100	00   +17.1   79.0 +16.8  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.08
 5698 +23.7 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   80.8 +17.3  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.02
 5858 +23.9 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   81.2 +21.5  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.11

AaronWRX · 03-27-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeC

What is your setup (specifically, turbo)? I ask because you're only making 4.5 at 23psi at peak power.

Code:

 4462 +23.7 4.1 103 100	00   +18.5   64.0 +17.0  -3.3 445.00 4.0  10.89
 4623 +23.7 4.2 104 100	00   +20.4   68.4 +17.7  -3.5 445.00 4.0  10.93
 4761 +23.3 4.3 104 100	00   +21.2   70.3 +18.2  -3.7 445.00 4.1  10.93
 4916 +23.1 4.4 103 100	00   +22.0   73.4 +19.2  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.05
 5050 +23.3 4.4 102 100	00   +19.1   76.0 +20.0  -4.7 445.00 4.1  10.99
 5159 +23.1 4.4 104 100	00   +18.4   75.6 +20.0  -4.6 445.00 4.1  11.02
 5316 +23.5 4.5 104 100	00   +18.4   75.4 +20.2  -3.8 445.00 4.1  11.17
 5455 +23.5 4.5 103 100 01   +18.0   81.2 +16.4  -3.7 445.00 4.1  11.23
 5537 +23.3 4.5 103 100	00   +17.1   79.0 +16.8  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.08
 5698 +23.7 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   80.8 +17.3  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.02
 5858 +23.9 4.5 103 100	00   +17.6   81.2 +21.5  -3.5 445.00 4.2  11.11

those are bigmaf volts

Utec+Tuner Pro, SZ55FBIG, APSDR725 FMIC, catlessTBE,-Nexus Gauges, Perrin EBCS, TurboXS bigMAF, Walbro, Perrin injectors, Tial 50MM

so where can I get a red hose?

cdvma · 03-27-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freon

Remember, the MAP in your UTEC log is what the UTEC thinks. If the UTEC is calibrated wrong, it will show MAP wrong.

Thats only half the story. Its what the UTEC thinks and is smoothed so you don't always see the MAP following the load. Weird eh?

AaronWRX · 03-27-2006, 06:20 PM

I just checked it and the default value of 18 is there.

TyranosaurusWRX · 07-28-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x99percent

IIRC, the defaults are...
0psi for "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping"
18psi for "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping"

What this gives you is...

Code:

 10%    20%     30%     40%    ...    80%       90%      100%
<2psi  2-4psi  4-6psi  6-8psi  ...  14-16psi  16-18psi  >18psi

If you really want to keep resolution, try this:
Set "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping" to 6psi
Set "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping" to 24psi
Leave your timing map set to "ECU" for 0% and 10%, 0-4000rpm.

Now, your ranges for mapping should be...

Code:

 10%    20%      30%       40%      ...    80%       90%      100%
<8psi  8-10psi  10-12psi  12-14psi  ...  20-22psi  22-24psi  >24psi

Do you think this would cause issues on large injectors under the 6psi mark? Or is any psi reading up to that point (considering TPS setting has been surpassed) going to read from the 10% column?

hippy · 07-28-2006, 10:40 AM

yes, anything under 8psi in that example would be 10% load once past the hard throttle crossover. The 0% column is so big that the a/f ratio wouldn't be so consistent in different situations, not that this wouldn't work. I just don't see the harm in making the load sites a little bigger(by not raising the min as much as the max). I use a min value of 4(so I get about 5.5 and lower in the 10% column) and a max of 22, which works pretty well for me, but is still a little high(the min value).

peace

tmarcel · 07-28-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdvma

Doesn't have anything to do with calibration. What is your max PSI for mapping set in the UTEC parameters? You apparently have it set to the stock value of 20 and have no resolution between 18 and 23 PSI. If I were you I'd rescale it and get that resolution back. Your load site also has nothing to do with timing or AFR, its all MAP based load.

^^^^^ That was glaring out. The map needs to be scaled out further.

03-26-2006, 09:21 PM	#5
ShaggyGT * Banned * Member#: 19221 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Jacksonville, FL Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT (STi) UR35R/Rotated Intake Mani	Here is what it says in the user manual: MAP Calibration 1. To calibrate the MAP sensor you need an accurate boost/vacuum gauge (note that 0 psi is atmospheric pressure), a UTEC and a PC. 2. Turn ON the ignition but do not start the car. Record the pressure reading (P0) in psi on the gauge and the MAP value (M0) under logger #4. 3. Start the car. 4. As an alternative measurement for P0. Place the engine under vacuum and record the pressure reading (P0) in psi on the gauge and the MAP value (M0) under logger #4. 5. Place the engine under boost and record the pressure reading (P1) in psi on the gauge and the MAP value (M1) under logger #4. Try to find a stable reading for this in boost. 6. Ideally the two measurement points should be as far apart as possible. 7. The gradient is calculated as follows; Gradient = 1000 * (P1 – P0) / (M1 – M0) Note that this number is rounded off to the nearest whole number. 8. The intercept is calculated as follows; Intercept = ((Gradient * M0) - (1000 * P0)) / 100 Note that this number is rounded off to the nearest whole number. There is no note about being able to raise your maximum boost in order to allow more headroom in the maps. I do recall reading about it here on the forum though, back when I was running a UTEC on my WRX. What is your "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping (psi)" ? -Matt Last edited by ShaggyGT; 03-26-2006 at 09:31 PM.

03-27-2006, 01:10 PM	#9
x99percent Scooby Specialist Member#: 27108 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Detroit-ish, MI Vehicle: 2004 STi 2004 A4	IIRC, the defaults are... 0psi for "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping" 18psi for "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping" What this gives you is... Code: 10% 20% 30% 40% ... 80% 90% 100% <2psi 2-4psi 4-6psi 6-8psi ... 14-16psi 16-18psi >18psi If you really want to keep resolution, try this: Set "MAP Minimum Value for Mapping" to 6psi Set "MAP Maximum Value for Mapping" to 24psi Leave your timing map set to "ECU" for 0% and 10%, 0-4000rpm. Now, your ranges for mapping should be... Code: 10% 20% 30% 40% ... 80% 90% 100% <8psi 8-10psi 10-12psi 12-14psi ... 20-22psi 22-24psi >24psi

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03-26-2006, 07:24 PM	#2
kcook Scooby Newbie Member#: 78074 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVA Vehicle: 2005 STi Aspen White	clear ur PM box aaron , have something really important to ask u

03-26-2006, 08:38 PM	#3
AaronWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 7194 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVa Vehicle: 2011 997.2 Turbo Black	some pm's cleared.

03-26-2006, 09:19 PM	#4
ShaggyGT * Banned * Member#: 19221 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Jacksonville, FL Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT (STi) UR35R/Rotated Intake Mani	I am pretty sure there is a way to recalibrate your MAP. I believe you can raise the maximum psi and that should give you more resolution. I checked the manual but the instructions for calibrating the MAP is somewhat vague, atleast for me. I have also not heard anything of a 4.5bar MAP sensor for anything other than the D-TEC and it is only for logging high boost. -Matt

03-27-2006, 10:27 AM	#6
VWGrk1 Scooby Specialist Member#: 57882 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago Vehicle: 2004 WRX WRB	I'm not sure if you should care or not. I mean, if you got tuned like this and the tune works well, then why change things up? Maybe adjust your tune a bit. Do you knock often in the same spot? Perhaps not so much for the OP's benefit, but it seems like a couple of different issues are being presented here. The reason for the new MAP sensor is to accurately read boost levels above 23 or so psi. The stock MAP sensor may report, say, 25 psi to the UTEC and that is what you will see in the log, but is it an honest 25 psi? The experts say no. Increasing the range of psi actually reduces resolution. You have to fit a larger psi range in each load column, though the UTEC tries to average the two sites for in-between boost levels. Load site is determined by what boost level you hit, not the other way around. So, if you set your max at a low level (like at 10psi, which you would never ordinarily do), then anytime your boost passes 10 psi the fueling and timing will come from the 100% load site. This is terrible since it will apply the same fueling / timing for 12psi, 18 psi, 24 psi, etc.... However, below 10 psi, each pound of boost would have its own load site and fueling / timing would be spot-on (great resolution in the 10 and below psi range). In PDX's case that you quoted, he can safely run more boost because he knows for sure that he is hitting either 26 or 28 psi. He can run optimal timing / fuel for each of those boost levels. Feel free to correct anything if I mis-spoke as I am no expert.

03-27-2006, 12:54 PM	#8
cdvma Scooby Specialist Member#: 21980 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Central MA Vehicle: 2002 PSM WRX (Sold) 2009 BMW X5	Doesn't have anything to do with calibration. What is your max PSI for mapping set in the UTEC parameters? You apparently have it set to the stock value of 20 and have no resolution between 18 and 23 PSI. If I were you I'd rescale it and get that resolution back. Your load site also has nothing to do with timing or AFR, its all MAP based load.

03-27-2006, 01:17 PM	#10
AaronWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 7194 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVa Vehicle: 2011 997.2 Turbo Black	I'll def check it out later. Thanks for all the advice. Seems like when I do this i'll be tossing out the turboxs tune I paid for a couple weeks ago. I wonder why they didnt give me some headroom.

03-27-2006, 02:08 PM	#12
Freon Scooby Specialist Member#: 88322 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Indianapolis, IN Vehicle: 2009 BMW 135i	It looks like you're hitting 100 load column at only ~18psi. Remember, the MAP in your UTEC log is what the UTEC thinks. If the UTEC is calibrated wrong, it will show MAP wrong. And the load column is going to go off what the UTEC thinks. In the parameters, you simply must have your MAX PSI FOR MAPPING set to about 18psi. Step #1 is to make sure your UTEC MAP is calibrated. Step #2 is to set the MAX PSI FOR MAPPING parameter to about 22 psi. Remember the 10% load column takes over for the ECU when your TPS crossover is met, NOT when MAP reaches your "MIN PSI FOR MAPPING". Keep that in mind when setting your MIN PSI setting. If you are setting it more than 0psi, I suggest putting "ECU" in the timing map for the 10% column.

03-27-2006, 06:20 PM	#17
AaronWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 7194 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVa Vehicle: 2011 997.2 Turbo Black	I just checked it and the default value of 18 is there.

07-28-2006, 10:40 AM	#19
hippy Scooby Specialist Member#: 36528 Join Date: May 2003 Location: florida Vehicle: 2002 Impreza Wrx Silver	yes, anything under 8psi in that example would be 10% load once past the hard throttle crossover. The 0% column is so big that the a/f ratio wouldn't be so consistent in different situations, not that this wouldn't work. I just don't see the harm in making the load sites a little bigger(by not raising the min as much as the max). I use a min value of 4(so I get about 5.5 and lower in the 10% column) and a max of 22, which works pretty well for me, but is still a little high(the min value). peace