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Old 04-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #2826
bassicfun
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holy..... STU could likely be a 2800-2900lb class by some point, for those that have no cost-prohibitive measures I would think.

Sad I'm at 250whp/240tq and 3263lbs w/o driver here. ['04-lazy-boy edition EVO]...


AustinTX, no note on rear camber? are you toed in? zero? just a tick of toe out?
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #2827
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STU is already a 28-2900lb class for 04 STI's and EVO RS's. I don't see a legal way to get my car below 3000. Cost is definitely holding me back a bit. That and the fact that I DD my car and will only go so far regarding comfort and NVH. Playing the numbers game, I could stand to lose 37lbs on a pair of race seats, 3.5lbs on the crank pulley (which went back to stock for the pro), and maybe 3lbs per corner on 2pc rotors. Everything else is pretty much done, so the car could be in the 3033 range if I came into some extra money. I personally could lose a good 25lbs as well, but that is too much work

My rear toe is 0. That's all the factory eccentrics would give me last time it hit the rack.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #2828
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The 2-piece rotors and seats make a big difference. My car weighed 3,037 lbs with the "E" light on at Nationals in 2010. I had Girodisc 2pc rotors (on Josh's car now), a driver's seat only, and Perrin equal-length headers (which are definitely lighter than the OEM cast iron manifold). I think I could've gotten below 3,000 lbs if I replaced the passenger seat and got an uber light titanium exhaust or turndown (I had a "heavy" stainless full catback). I had still had the stock airbox as well.

Another thought on weight: I ran stiffer springs but OEM sways. ANY aftermarket swaybar that is larger diameter and solid is going to weigh more than the OEM bars. The bigger the bar, the bigger the weight penalty. Food for thought.

Justin
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #2829
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Air box? Sway bars? Exhaust? Seems like you're splitting hairs at that point! I guess at the national level, every last pound helps...but I think driver skill is still #1.

Fuel tank level can have a big effect, but I've found that I sometimes get fuel cut at anything less than 1/4 tank.

AustinTX made a good point about weight loss...I personally have lost 60 pounds which was the best weight reduction mod for my car! (and myself)

Anyway, this is just my $.02.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:18 PM   #2830
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It was splitting hairs, absolutely! But significant weight loss was a defined goal going into the 2010 season for me. Of course that does not preclude good driving, but it's like any car - you have to have setup goals.

And I don't think physical weight loss would've work - I already weigh 135 lbs. I've already got a head start there.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:30 PM   #2831
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I want to say that the last time I weighed the car it was around 3,050lbs with around a 1/4 tank of gas. I could lose weight with the headers, but trying to keep underhood temps down...not to mention I've heard (don't know, haven't researched) that you lose torque in the midrange...or something like that. But if I REALLY wanted to lose weight, I could do that and the stock bars...but I'm liking the way the car handles, not going to sacrifice that.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:27 AM   #2832
em99sport
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For other weight reduction stuff, consider spring and damper weight (my Swifts probably account for the 15# total loss in front coilovers), and the lightest batteries. I've seen that a lot of people have lighter than stock batteries, but can go even lighter for a few bucks more. My Ballistic is under 3 lbs. Although mine lives on a trickle charger, a quick swap at events makes using one reasonable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
maybe 3lbs per corner on 2pc rotors
They're expensive, but the Girodiscs Vikingmoose mentioned drop more than that. They were 22# lighter than stock rotors on my GR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingmoose View Post
My car weighed 3,037 lbs with the "E" light on at Nationals in 2010.

ANY aftermarket swaybar that is larger diameter and solid is going to weigh more than the OEM bars.
My car is in similar condition (almost all weight reduction except stock passenger seat, stock header and midpipe), and I'm at 3100# even with fuel light on. I plan to do the other seat and a tubular header sooner than later, and a superlight exhaust eventually, but I'm looking at ~3050 best case scenario. The GRs should come in around 50# heavier in full prep.

Your point on sways is exactly why I only considered tubular bars.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #2833
AustinTX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
They're expensive, but the Girodiscs Vikingmoose mentioned drop more than that. They were 22# lighter than stock rotors on my GR.
Wow. Hard to believe that they could fit the rules with that much weight reduction. How much different are the GR rotors from GD?

14.6 BRAKES
A. Non-standard brake rotors may be used provided they are of equal
or larger dimensions (diameter and thickness) and made of ferrous material (e.g., iron).
Thickness includes the individual plates of a vented rotor, as well as the overall dimension.
The diameter for replacement rotors is measured at the minimum outside dimension.
Aluminum rotor hats are allowed. Cars originally equipped with solid
(non-vented) rotors may utilize vented rotors. Cross-drilled and/or
slotted brake rotors may be fitted provided all such voids are within
the disc area and comprise no more than 10% of that area.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:00 AM   #2834
AustinTX
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Did you have to cut the rear brake pads to fit the Girodisc rotors?
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:42 AM   #2835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
Wow. Hard to believe that they could fit the rules with that much weight reduction. How much different are the GR rotors from GD?
Just to be clear, we're talking 22# total loss from all four rotors, not each. Aluminum hats weigh considerably less than the stock one-piece rotors' center sections. I haven't had the chance to compare GD rotors directly with GR versions, but the front Girodiscs are the same for both generations, while the rears are different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
Did you have to cut the rear brake pads to fit the Girodisc rotors?
Yes, I had to arch the rear pads, since I got them from KNS. If you buy pads through Girodisc, they'll arch them for free before shipping.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #2836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msennati View Post
The camber slot is not perpendicular to the sides of the car but mildly canted towards the rear. You can not set them do be perpendicular, camber only.
If I had centered the bearing in the plate I would have gotten much less, if any, increase in caster.
I pushed the bearing full inboard for max camber, picked up about 0.8 deg of caster and I got -3.2 deg camber with the OE camber bolts set to ~ neutral.
Roger. My plates are "fully rotated" (2 holes) and are one hole away from fully in. I must be running a crapload of caster based on your numbers (maybe 9+). I should probably back off. The power steering whines for basically any parking lot manuever . Steering is heavy, but does feel very numb.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:07 PM   #2837
AustinTX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
Yes, I had to arch the rear pads, since I got them from KNS. If you buy pads through Girodisc, they'll arch them for free before shipping.
Seems like a gray area per the rules. I suppose if you can purchase pads that already fit properly, then it should be fine. If you have to do it yourself, I'm not so sure. Probably being too anal about it, but I would probably pass on them from the pad modification standpoint.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:54 PM   #2838
Illini_STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
Seems like a gray area per the rules. I suppose if you can purchase pads that already fit properly, then it should be fine. If you have to do it yourself, I'm not so sure. Probably being too anal about it, but I would probably pass on them from the pad modification standpoint.
Aren't you free under 13.6A:

13.6 BRAKES
A. The make and material of brake linings may be changed.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what is going on here. You are talking about removing some of the friction material correct?
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:15 PM   #2839
em99sport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
Seems like a gray area per the rules. I suppose if you can purchase pads that already fit properly, then it should be fine. If you have to do it yourself, I'm not so sure. Probably being too anal about it, but I would probably pass on them from the pad modification standpoint.
I value maintaining legality as much as anyone, and I don't see an issue with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_STi View Post
You are talking about removing some of the friction material correct?
Clearancing them a couple mm to accomodate the hardware on the hubs.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #2840
AustinTX
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It appears that you must actually cut into the backing plate significantly. I talked with Hollis, and he feels that 13.6A covers this modification. Seems to me that cutting into the backing plate of a brake pad would not be allowable, but I guess I'm just seeing it from the wrong angle. Given this angle, I could legally run with swiss cheesed brake pads. Not smart, but apparently okay
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:27 PM   #2841
AustinTX
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Nevermind - found the sentence that covers it:

Changes to backing plates/dust shields/brake lines to accommodate these changes are permitted but may serve no other purpose.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:05 PM   #2842
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FYI, I saw a 24lbs reduction swapping to the Girodiscs (5 each in front, 7 each in rear). And yes, as you've finally found out, you have to grind down the backing plate to clear the rear hub...actually did that on Saturday night while swapping to the Ferrodos.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #2843
AustinTX
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Dang, that's quite a bit. Was the rotor change noticeable in terms of performance?
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:17 AM   #2844
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Girodisc will also give you the part number for an Alfa Romeo Ferodo 2500 pad that is a direct fit for the rear, basically the STI pad with the right arch for the Girodiscs.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:52 AM   #2845
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassicfun View Post
holy..... STU could likely be a 2800-2900lb class by some point, for those that have no cost-prohibitive measures I would think
IMHO, I can't see any of the buggies sub-2900. I think even well prepped Evo RS's were still high 29's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
Just to be clear, we're talking 22# total loss from all four rotors, not each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
FYI, I saw a 24lbs reduction swapping to the Girodiscs (5 each in front, 7 each in rear).
These are the regular Girodiscs, not the Ultralites?

I think on an Evo the regular ones only save 15 lbs total
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:53 AM   #2846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTX View Post
Dang, that's quite a bit. Was the rotor change noticeable in terms of performance?
Unless you take out a few hundred pounds, I find it hard to notice a difference. I mean heck, I don't usually notice a difference when I add/remove a passenger, so didn't notice this. But I know that the laws of physics tells me that it's better in every way. And when combined with other weight savings...it should be a good improvement.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:56 AM   #2847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
For other weight reduction stuff, consider spring and damper weight (my Swifts probably account for the 15# total loss in front coilovers), and the lightest batteries. I've seen that a lot of people have lighter than stock batteries, but can go even lighter for a few bucks more. My Ballistic is under 3 lbs. Although mine lives on a trickle charger, a quick swap at events makes using one reasonable.
Which battery are you using? My Braille CF 6lbs battery is about 6 years old at this point...doesn't really take a charge really well. Also what trickle charger? I'm using some Harbor Freight charger, but I don't think it's technically a trickle charger.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:13 AM   #2848
bassicfun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
Which battery are you using? My Braille CF 6lbs battery is about 6 years old at this point...doesn't really take a charge really well. Also what trickle charger? I'm using some Harbor Freight charger, but I don't think it's technically a trickle charger.
Have used this one since 2005 on my STS CRX, until 2010 when I bought the EVO, and now use it on the EVO. Still going strong. Great that you can attach the leads, then it is a simple 'plug in' to charge/maintain.
It has clips too as you can see in the picture below.




http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher...ndingMethod=rr
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #2849
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Another question: what are you guys running for turbo inlets? I have the Samco, but it doesn't fit onto the turbo too well. Keeps slipping off and it's not getting any better since it's been oiled up from the PCV (really need a catch can...but that's for another time).

I was thinking of picking up a new Samco and hoping that a new one might have better fitment, but curious as to what the rest of you guys had...especially since the Samco is about triple the cost. Thoughts?
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:56 PM   #2850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
These are the regular Girodiscs, not the Ultralites?
Does Girodisc even make more than one type of rotors for the STI? What are these "Ultralites" you speak of?
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