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Old 07-24-2013, 08:52 AM   #3026
wrxsomeday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
You're funny.

And Doug, you know that as a car guy it's nearly impossible to leave the car alone! It's too much fun to try and make it faster to make up for your skillset! I would say that one should leave the car alone for the first year, then perhaps start modding more. Get that first year under your belt, get that experience, then start working on the car while continuing to work on the driver. I do wish I knew then what I know now and had left the car alone a bit, but then again I also had fun messing with it.

And I still haven't listened to my own advice: I have yet to do an Evo School, but know I could gain a lot of it. Maybe next year (like I keep saying every year).
This! I also started with a modified WRX and eventually changed mods to make it STX legal. I wish I would have started racing with it stock, then modified it.

Speaking of, that's exactly what I did with my 08 STi...even though I had a lot of racing experience, I left it stock for several events first. Only after driving at the car's limits consistently did I chose to modify it...and I'm very glad that I took that route.

Why do I say leave it stock first? Because when you first start racing, you will be driving no where near the limits of the car's performance ability. A modified car's limits will only be higher. Learning to drive up to the car's limits will allow you to develop your skills at lower speeds. Once you are hitting the limits, you can use those base line skills as building blocks for becoming a faster driver with a more modified car. For example, I can guarantee you that Michelangelo's first canvas was not the Sistine Chapel. Think of your car as your canvas.

Arod - I know it is very tempting to modify and play in STU, but I think you will learn more if you start with the car in stock form. If you're really hurting to mod the car, you can do Koni inserts (with stock springs) and one sway bar and still race in stock class (D Stock). FYI - that setup is nationally competitive and there are plenty of good drivers to play with in stock class! Plus, what if you spend all that money modifying the car and you end up hating autox?....ok, that won't happen...you'll be hooked after your first event!

Just food for thought
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:39 AM   #3027
arod15
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I appreciate the insight, however these modifications have already been done. Most of them before I even thought about autocross. When I did decide to pursue it, I was already too modified for stock class with no aspirations of de-modding my car to a shade of its current form. Though as mentioned there are a few simple things that I am willing to remove to stay in STU. Really the only autocross minded mods I have done are the sways and wheels/tires. I figured it would be nice to practice with a good base.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:33 PM   #3028
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All signed up for nats! Running STU this year!
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:26 AM   #3029
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So I'm stuck in quite the bind. For this season I've been running in SM. The car is a blast to drive and I love the way the car is set up. Now I've been debating on demodding and going down to stu as I do not have my car very prepped for SM, but locally it doesn't do to bad. Have any of you guys done the same and went back down to STU?
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:42 PM   #3030
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Took my SM WRX > ESP > STX. Missed the SM mods :-(

Didn't do any better in the other classes. In fact had my best win
in SM against some hairy Camero & ITR, etc
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:03 AM   #3031
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On a positive note... WILMINGTON!??!?! WOOHOO Will be a blast, can't believe how EVO intensive STU used to be, now we are the serious minority... Ran on the surface saturday, much better than Toledo (I live between the two and will enjoy running both though)... Great grip, smooth, large... only 'issue' will be the employee parking lot is where we will paddock, and the walk/ride to the pad isn't small.. makes Peru seem like it is one continuous lot.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #3032
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Congrats to Josh for the Sportscar pick in STU!
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:52 PM   #3033
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Congrats, hope it is not a jinx!
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #3034
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Lol...a lot of people are hoping it is!

Yeah Wilmington is pretty cool. It was awful dusty my first run (first car out). So much so I got some in my eyes lol. I'd rate grip halfway between Grissom and Toledo but the lot is enormous.

STU class will be large with multiple codriven cars. Should be a great time. I'll have a big red tent and some chairs that anyones more than welcome to hang out under.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:18 PM   #3035
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Wow, looks like I just happened to be picked by the STU random name generator for Sportscar. They clearly didn't put too much thought into it.

FYI, they just guaranteed that I DEFINITELY will not win.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:33 PM   #3036
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I mean, SOMEONE has to end up with one of those "SportsCar was RIGHT" t-shirts.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:06 PM   #3037
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I didn't when I got picked. Geoff Clark made sure of that to the tune of 1 second.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:16 PM   #3038
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Haha that's great... I saw Andrew P's post about it too
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #3039
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I need to make a shirt ahead of time that says "Sportscar was smoking crack" or "Sportscar doomed me" or something.

My money is on Geoff, Shane, or John...the rest of us are just also rans hoping to sneak in if all of those guys mess up.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:01 PM   #3040
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Stumbled across this while perusing earlier, 17x9 et45 5x114.3 Kosei K1-TS with 245/40/17 Rivals. Doesn't seem like a bad deal.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2533551
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:55 PM   #3041
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Hmmmm I'd debate it, but I wanna see how the 245's feel on my 9.5's first.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:48 AM   #3042
jaren 05 STi
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guess ill play.

Engine- stock
Exhaust- tanabe catback
Suspension- tein flex coilovers
Alignment- -1 f & r, 0 toe
Tires- 245/45 dunlop z2's on stock bbs


im lacking the experience so im still getting my ass kicked in this class too.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:00 AM   #3043
piknockout
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As we said above, keep focusing on seat time with the mods that you have. Then once you've improved your driving, start prepping the car more. Win win.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:12 AM   #3044
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Something cheap that you could do is get more camber front and rear. -2f -1.5 r would help some.

I'm impressed you have a big STU class in Hawaii, thats pretty cool.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:18 AM   #3045
em99sport
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Anyone have an opinion on a particular EL header? I'm getting close to getting a retune, so headers are under consideration for reducing temps, dropping some weight up front, and freeing up some response/power. I'm not looking forward to losing the rumble, but it seems like a smart decision for longevity.

I've heard good and bad about the Killer B, and seemingly nothing but good about Perrin and Invidia. Thoughts?
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:24 AM   #3046
piknockout
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I've heard, although it's been a while since I looked, that the headers would actually increase underhood temps and are prone to cracking. Also most on the market tend to reduce torque down low where we need it. I'm running a ported/polished stocker and have been since I started. Never went down the header path, although it doesn't mean it's a bad decision.

FYI, I could be wrong on all my reasoning above.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:37 AM   #3047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
I've heard, although it's been a while since I looked, that the headers would actually increase underhood temps and are prone to cracking. Also most on the market tend to reduce torque down low where we need it. I'm running a ported/polished stocker and have been since I started. Never went down the header path, although it doesn't mean it's a bad decision.

FYI, I could be wrong on all my reasoning above.
Not completely accurate but most people do end up with those kind of results for whatever reason if they don't consider all factors involved.

Do a lot of research on this. There are ways to do it right. In no way is it affordable/inexpensive to do.

PnP is probably most affordable bang for buck here. Imo

But all that said I'm looking at going EL at some point as well lol.
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:38 PM   #3048
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EL is worth about 5-10whp and 5-15 wtq. Makes the car drive super smooth and a bit more responsive too. Jsoh is right about underhood temps and such. They don't retain heat as well either. Quickest way to fix that is ceramic coating or wrapping them.

Austin just installed some APS 1.5 scroll EL's so we'll sound more like the Evo's this weekend haha.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:43 PM   #3049
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My 2c: don't use header wrap on a Subaru. If your valve cover gaskets get leaky someday the wrap might trap the oil and start a fire. Just get them coated or purchase one already coated like the Borla (which is UEL but made good power on the 2.0L).
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #3050
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Here's my letter about new cars in STU. #12038. Please please please write in. At least one STAC member has said they think the C5 is going to be very quick in STU. So I don't think this is a done deal by any means. But they need feedback.

Quote:
This letter is in response to the proposal to add new cars to STU.

I am just focusing on the 350Z / G35, and the C5 Corvette. I think the other cars discussed will not upset any applecarts.

350Z first:
-----------

At the Lincoln tour this year, i.e. the surface that matters most, a good driver in a 350Z beat last year's STR national champion by almost seven tenths. Even if you remove the cones, it was still five tenths. If you define "competitive" as "a good driver in a well prepped car has a fair shot at a good finish", that clearly means to me the 350Z is currently "competitive" in STR. One datapoint but a very important one given the caliber of drivers and the surface. Put simply, if people aren't running them in STR despite those results, they won't run them in STU either.

C5 Corvette:
-----------

I think the Corvette, when prepped, will be substantially faster than the current STU.

There are only three weaknesses for the Vette in STU that I can see:
* It's wider than the cars in the class right now - about 6" wider than an E36 M3 and 3-4" wider than an Evo
* It might have problems putting power down on street tires
* The STAC has claimed the gearing is not great for autocross

In response:
* Width certainly matters in slaloms, but it matters less in other course elements, and the car has strengths in slaloms that the other cars in the class don't, namely that it is 9-10" shorter than an Evo and 5-6" shorter than an M3 and has better geometry than both
* It will be able to run a lot of wheel. You might be thinking that people have tried to run stock-class Corvettes on street tires and not had good luck putting power down, but those cars are on stock springs - an STU C5 will have a lot of options at their disposal to mitigate this including adding enough spring to keep the other end of the car on the ground, and upgrading the rear diff to something fancy and expensive.
* The Vette makes a lot of torque everywhere, and it will never have any turbo lag like the buggies will. They come stock with 275-40-18s in the rear, and they will almost certainly be running 285-30-18s in STU, which is a substantial shortening that should make the gearing awfully good for autocross.

There are a bunch of advantages though:
* It should have more torque than anything in the class, especially with E85 going away, and it makes that torque at a lower RPM than the boost buggies do
* It will be able to run a ton of wheel, which will mean it can take advantage of 285's in a way that nothing currently competitive in the class can
* They are much lower than anything in the class (ten inches shorter than an Evo 9, 5-6" shorter than an E36 M3)
* They not 60% nose heavy like the buggies

The weight is probably going to work out about the same as the buggies, thought the M3 will still be the lightest competitive car in the class.

What do the boost buggies do better? They put power down better at corner exit, but by the time the wheel is mostly straight again, this advantage will be pretty small.

In my opinion, the BEST case for this proposal is a substantial amount of course dependency because the C5 is so different than the existing cars. The worst case is that the car is in the mix on asphalt and dominates the existing cars on concrete.

Proposal overall
-----------
The Fastrack starts with: “ In response to the declining participation in STU...”

I am very curious why STU gets this treatment.

In Lincoln in 2012, STU was one of the biggest open classes (28) only eclipsed by:
SS (41) DS (31) STC (37) STS (39) STX (50) STR (51) ESP (33) CP (39) RTR (36)

I am skimming here, so apologies if I missed one, but my math has STU as the tenth-most popular open class at Nationals last year. Yes, most of its ST* friends are doing better ; yes, the numbers have dropped a bit over the years. But, pre-registration for this year’s nationals:
* STF: 15
* STC: 19
* STS: 19
* STX: 43
* STU: 17
* STR: 43
That’s completely consistent with the other ST classes, except for STR and STX which are obviously huge success stories. It’s cool that those classes are doing well. That doesn’t mean that another 28-car STU field is some sort of failure. It’s not. Remember that last year was the first time a non-buggie had won. That should be and IMHO has been a sign that a non-buggie can get it done.

And as a pre-empt, I know that the west course was very E36 friendly, but Tristan was right in the mix on the east course also. IIRC, he was only 2-3 tenths off the fastest boost buggy time, on a course that was very evenly balanced. And he was a nationals rookie, and I don't think he would contend his car was fully prepped, and I think Heikotter proved that there is still more speed in the E36s as he was faster than Tristan on 1 or both days.

Fastrack continues with “...the ST allowances provide the ability to correct (the C5’s) poor seating and create a competitive, fun, dual purpose vehicle.” The Evo, STi and M3 are all competitive, fun, dual purpose vehicles. Let’s remember that last year, STU had three different cars in the top 3, and four in the top 4 if you count the Evo 8 as a separate vehicle (open front diff and less power than the 9). The boost buggies make fantastic all-year cars that in a way that the C5 never will (in anything other than warm climates). All of those cars are substantially more practical than the two-seat, huge-hood C5 Corvette is.

If we are talking fun, dual purpose vehicles, we currently have TWO classes devoted to 20 year old cars that may or may not have A/C and airbags and sure as heck aren’t family cars (STC, STS). And we have one class devoted to cars that aren’t fun on the street OR much fun for autocross (STF, as demonstrated by the general lack of entries, though nationals pre-reg is not as bad as last year).

In short, I don’t understand why the tenth most popular class at Nationals last year is seemingly getting singled out when it seems to me there are bigger fish to fry in ST*.

Thank you for your time and for your volunteering to serve on the STAC.
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