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Old 03-29-2006, 01:53 AM   #1
palmerx141
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Default internal to external wastegate conversion

Hey iv been searching around but i cant seem to find anywhere that talks about the conversion process involved with taking an internally gated turbo and putting an external gate on. If its on here and i just suck at the intraweb, could you please point me in the right direction? Thanks a lot.
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:43 AM   #2
Bob the fabricator
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Essentially if you have an internally gated turbo you need to first make the stock wastegate 'fixed'. There are a few ways to go about doing this. One way you can do this is by welding the internal gate passage shut, and deleting the actuator assembly entirely. Another way is to leave the internal flap intact, but fabricate a rigid actuator arm in lieu of the original actuator to hold the flap tight against the internal wastegate passage. I prefer the second method as it is entirely reversible should you sell the turbo or simply decide to backdate it.

You will then need to weld a mounting flange and tube from the up-pipe to mount the wastegate. Not all brands of wastegates are an easy fit in a WRX, there's not a whole lot of room when you take into account the proximity of the brake lines (heat) and the front axle (which of course moves). Then you need to either make a dump pump to the atmosphere or merge the wastegate discharge into the downpipe after the turbo. It's a PITA even on a car lift, if you have no access to a lift it's not a fun job. Large downpipes make it even more challenging from a fitment point of view. I've fitted a few TIAL wastegates on WRX's and STI's with SR55 turbos, and they've all been a bit challenging one way or another.

HTH,
Bob
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:54 AM   #3
palmerx141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the fabricator
Essentially if you have an internally gated turbo you need to first make the stock wastegate 'fixed'. There are a few ways to go about doing this. One way you can do this is by welding the internal gate passage shut, and deleting the actuator assembly entirely. Another way is to leave the internal flap intact, but fabricate a rigid actuator arm in lieu of the original actuator to hold the flap tight against the internal wastegate passage. I prefer the second method as it is entirely reversible should you sell the turbo or simply decide to backdate it.

You will then need to weld a mounting flange and tube from the up-pipe to mount the wastegate. Not all brands of wastegates are an easy fit in a WRX, there's not a whole lot of room when you take into account the proximity of the brake lines (heat) and the front axle (which of course moves). Then you need to either make a dump pump to the atmosphere or merge the wastegate discharge into the downpipe after the turbo. It's a PITA even on a car lift, if you have no access to a lift it's not a fun job. Large downpipes make it even more challenging from a fitment point of view. I've fitted a few TIAL wastegates on WRX's and STI's with SR55 turbos, and they've all been a bit challenging one way or another.

HTH,
Bob
wow great this is exactily what i was looking for, thanks. Most likly, im going to get the TIAL 38mm ewg for my car. Right now im running the VF39(i know its small but iv talked to a few people with the set up and liked it), so your sectond way to do it sounds best. You did mention having a big dp is a problem though. I have the turboxs downpipe which is 4 inches all the way down :\ I do plan on having it dump to atmosphere though, would that make things easier or harder? Again, thanks a lot!
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Old 03-31-2006, 08:48 AM   #4
Skully
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We made a tial 38mm wastegate fit in a WRX that has a full USDM STI engine swap, GT30R, and 6-speed. If we can get it to fit.. i know you can.

-Thomas
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Old 04-01-2006, 07:52 PM   #5
simprezl25
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hey im doing the same setup alittle, i am going with the td05 big 16g turbo with the tial 38 mm (1bar spring(14.7psi)) and the hks down pipe. i got my ewg setu pfrom ultimate racing. they have some good stuff and good service. the whole thing cost me about 600. not bad. i wil post pics later of my ewg setup.
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:34 PM   #6
palmerx141
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the ewg cost 600?! im about to get one for 210
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerx141
the ewg cost 600?! im about to get one for 210
used or new? with or without wastegate? thats a pretty good deal.

mine is new, i was surprised about the quality also.
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:20 AM   #8
palmerx141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simprezl25
used or new? with or without wastegate? thats a pretty good deal.

mine is new, i was surprised about the quality also.
what do you mean with or without the wastegate? Im buying an new tial wastegate for 210.
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:46 AM   #9
tora
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I think what he was saying is that a new 38mm wastegate (TiAL) plus an external gate up-pipe will run around $600USD. Ultimate Racing has one of these for that price just as an example.
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Old 04-02-2006, 12:54 PM   #10
simprezl25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tora
I think what he was saying is that a new 38mm wastegate (TiAL) plus an external gate up-pipe will run around $600USD. Ultimate Racing has one of these for that price just as an example.
yeh that what imeant, sorry about the confusion
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:44 PM   #11
palmerx141
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i dont really have the money for a new up pipe. I have a Nino's(turbo xs copy) up pipe right now. How should i mount it to that up pipe? I figured id do it just like UR did. Anyone have pictures of an EWG ready up pipe they did?
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:05 PM   #12
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I've installed a couple of the UR racing up-pipe w/ 38mm Tial external wastegate. It's a nice setup and the dump tube is nice. The install is fun the first time. I would recommend getting metal gaskets for the wastgate or using exhaust gasket sealant because the normal gaskets that are included with the wastegate suck! they burn out quick. I'm sorry I didn't have time to take pictures, will do next time I do one. It's not a bad deal.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:38 AM   #13
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I would not suggest running an external wastegate on a VF39 but then hey I am old fashioned.

Basic rule of thumb for me, if it needed an external you would have bought a turbo that needed it and would show some serious gains from it!!
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:53 PM   #14
palmerx141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell
I would not suggest running an external wastegate on a VF39 but then hey I am old fashioned.

Basic rule of thumb for me, if it needed an external you would have bought a turbo that needed it and would show some serious gains from it!!
not like the guys at big valley are doing good things with the same set up or anything
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:39 AM   #15
DuoMaxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerx141
not like the guys at big valley are doing good things with the same set up or anything
Its amazing what you can do with an HKS WG actuator on an internally gated turbo.

I am not saying its a bad thing but its not going to net you some massive improvement in the cars ability. I have seen both set ups and I have also seen the good and the bad with doing such set ups compared to just getting a better actuator and going that route.

I have also done this set up, along with externally gated 34 atmospheric and fed back into the exhaust all on the dyno. I just gave my opinion take as it is.
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:45 PM   #16
quadturbowrxgtr-s
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if someone were to do this with say a vf30 or 22 and is tuned with Ecutek, would you need to be re-tuned for any reason?
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:52 PM   #17
palmerx141
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nope its just boost control
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