Front Bumper - FMIC

[Really_Soaked]

This is sort of a crossover topic. I have a Canadian MY00 2.5 that I'm turboing as we speak. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the CDN front bumper for the RS, but a FMIC will not fit.

I need a new bumper, either a stock US bumper (which I'd gladly take off of someone's hands used), or an aftermarket front bumper that can host a large 'cooler.

Any suggestions and/or bumpers for sale?

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[STiShawn]

look in Dres up and Style. The Apex, C-West or Us spec 99on RS bumper will all fit your needs.
Why a front mount though?

[STiShawn]

here is the apex kit

[Really_Soaked]

A FMIC will also fit under the US stock bumper, correct?

I want to do the front mount kit because ultimately it offers better performance. There's less heat-soak from the engine and you can get a larger core exposed to a lot of airflow. Bigger isn't always better, but as long as you have sufficient cold airflow (front of the vehicle is the best place for this) and you're not too close to a large heat source (top of the engine - heat rises) you're in pretty good shape. The only issue with a front mount is making sure you have sufficient distance from the rad.

[Really_Soaked]

Yup, not only will I be running significant boost levels, but we might be feeding the intake manifold backwards.

[SubaFastR]

No offense Dabbler, but that is a total pile of crap. Think of the piping as a straw. The faster you blow into it, the faster the air or liquid comes out. The reaction is instantanious. The cooling is way more efficiant, adding horsepower and making tunning easier. The ONLY real benifit to a top mount, is it is cheaper.
Again, I don't mean to offend you, just tired of this old wives tale.
Kevin

[Really_Soaked]

Unlike a milkshake or some water in a straw, air is compressable, so the longer the system the slower response you get.

Also there's more inertia, leading to a slower reaction. And with more piping and bends the dynamics of the airflow can be distorded providing a slowed airstream.

However, a larger front-mount core has more cooling potential and in most situations will provide better results.

[kaos200]

true, and true, still a front mount from me. Heat soak sucks!

[the Dabbler]

Originally posted by SubaFastR
No offense Dabbler, but that is a total pile of crap. Think of the piping as a straw. The faster you blow into it, the faster the air or liquid comes out. The reaction is instantanious. The cooling is way more efficiant, adding horsepower and making tunning easier. The ONLY real benifit to a top mount, is it is cheaper.
Again, I don't mean to offend you, just tired of this old wives tale.
Kevin

Hey, no offense taken, Kevin, especially since you're being so nice about it. I had deleted my post before I saw your reply, since I decided not to risk turning this into another FMIC vs TMIC flamefest (but I was too late). For the benefit of the late comers, I had suggested that the additional piping may outweigh the benefits of the improved cooling.

To expand upon your reasoning, Kevin, so, if the intercooling piping were, say, a mile long, then performance would be unaffected? Or would the simple fact that there is more piping (and therefore more volume to pressurize) result in a problem say, with boost response? And if your piping were twisted into a pretzel, would that also leave the flow unaffected? Extreme examples, of course, but made to illustrate a point.

I didn't mean to suggest that an FMIC is necessarily worse than a TMIC. I'm certainly sure it cools better. If that additional cooling gives more benefit than the loss due to the piping, then great.

I think Really_Soaked understood my concerns and also that I wasn't trying to put him down.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Edit -- Just saw additional replies from both Kevin and Really_Soaked. Geez! Either I type too slow, or you people are camped on this topic! Anyways. Points made all around. FMIC is a better option for some people. Good luck, Really_Soaked.]

[SubaFastR]

Good point, but way extreme. Anyway, I'm sure you would change your mind if you could watch your intake temps while sitting at a light. I've seen it, and it's not pretty. I'm glad nobody took offense.
Kevin

[the Dabbler]

A TMIC definitely has problems of its own. Where did I read that the Subaru engineers referred to the top-mounted WRC intercooler as "the interwarmer"? I'm sure they may have preferred the front location, if they didn't have to worry about it getting smashed up in jumps and things like that. And the esteemed Corky Bell refers to underhood intercoolers as potential "interheaters".

So I will readily admit I'm not sold on TMIC over FMIC. Looking forward to some numbers by someone who's tried both ways with a setup similar to my own.

Nice Pokemon icon, by the way... What the hell does it mean?

[SubaFastR]

Abolutely nothing, I just love using these smile things.
Kevin

[Really_Soaked]

Air Power Systems' huge FM 'cooler

[MPREZYA]

Really_Soaked you can see mine that I am using for the same style front bumper you have as soon as I can get it installed. (BTW Kevin UPS sucks as they dropped it off at the office instead of at my place W T F )
Rich

[Really_Soaked]

Cool let me know when you've got some pictures.

[Andrew]

id like to see the different air temps that a FMIC gets vs a TMIC


edit: a question... can you compensate the pressure lost by turning up the boost?


if the pressure drop at 25psi is 1psi, what is it at around 10psi?

[SubaFastR]

If there is a pressure drop, crank up the boost.
Kevin

[Andrew]

that might fix the pressure drop issue but doenst that affect other things?

[SubaFastR]

Not really, you are just upping the boost to where it was origianlly. With the front mount, heating the air up a little more won't hurt anything.
K

[the Dabbler]

You would still have the problem of having to pressurize a larger volume, which would decrease throttle response. However, this may not be a big deal, either because the actual decrease is minimal, or the particular application is not adversely affected by it.