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Old 04-10-2006, 07:41 AM   #26
JonofScio
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so then to recap: (I thought it was AIC, air idle control, not IAC?)

the only issues with swapping one over would be MAP sensor mounting, if you needed it for your ECU
throttle body adapter plate
throttle cable mount

and what about idle control? (air idle control) is it three wire, four, ect.

the thing you circled looks like the same connector type as the idle control, but, the brown stuff inside looks like where the EGR gasses have gone through. is there another port somewhere on the manifold that looks like it could run to this area, and to a part of one of the heads? do '05 subarus have EGR? or could this actually be the air idle?

if it is the air idle, is it the same connector as the '00? and how many wires is it?

if possible, it could be the same number of wires my '95 legacy had. a swap of the sensor plug (as the plugs are definately different!). Which, the legacy would be an easier donor for the car not needing a map sensor, as it was MAF. just an idea for those who are maf. good to know how easy/hard this swap is.

anybody have any input on the manifold/head port differences? if someone were to port match it, and didn't do it right, would it create a pocket that would decrease poerformance?
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Old 04-10-2006, 09:40 AM   #27
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the tube that goes into the plenum from the bottom that the 05's channel is routed through...may or may not work...though i imagine machining from the top wouldn't be too difficult.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:00 AM   #28
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That's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't completely sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staticfritz
the tube that goes into the plenum from the bottom that the 05's channel is routed through...may or may not work...though i imagine machining from the top wouldn't be too difficult.
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:44 PM   #29
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My stock throttle body more or less bolts right up (the holes on the TB need to be opened up just a tad). And now for the problems.


1. The idle air hole doesn't have anything to mate up to
2. The throttle linkage hits the plenum

Some pictures:





note: my hand really doesn't look mutant in real life.
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:50 PM   #30
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would a throttlebody spacer solve the linkage problem? i know a guy on rs25 was sellin em...may be able to pick one up there...or even some thinner alu stock (with some quality dremel time) may do it...
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:22 PM   #31
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You mean these:




Yes, spacing the TB would help the throttle problems (well the throttle cable would still be hard to get a good mounting location) - but not the idle air problem.
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Old 04-10-2006, 09:47 PM   #32
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Okay, so maybe a 1.5 inch thick spacer similar to the ones pictured above, except the idle air hole wouldn't go all the way through and instead it would have a hole on the top of the spacer that I could screw a nipple into and then find a place in the plenun to drill a hole and screw in another nipple and run a hose between them.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:57 PM   #33
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how m uch more power and what not is this conversion suposed to add? I did not think the 05 manifolds were that much better than previous?
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:03 PM   #34
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yeah, that's exactly what i was thinking...use the spacer and shortcut the idle air passage...
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:34 PM   #35
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It is better and those who know how much more power the manifold will gain aren't going to tell you.

Of course, you're first question isn't really valid to begin with because gains will depend on what else has been done to the engine.

Quote:
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how m uch more power and what not is this conversion suposed to add? I did not think the 05 manifolds were that much better than previous?
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:57 PM   #36
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Just as an FYI, the TWE car uses a full stand alone ECU, and thus why you can't find the MAP in their pictures...

I am not totally convinced that the gains from this are worth the effort, but will be watching the thread. Personally, I think a v5-7 STi manifold would be a better approach, and a lot easier to make work...

Regarding the IAC dilema (and it is IAC not AIC, as I am right now looking at it on a pinoutd from an FSM) why not just cap the mystery hole and continue to use it as it is, in your '00 TB? I don't see what the issue is. please explain...
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:17 PM   #37
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Matt - with the IAC - you see on the throttle body where the air goes through (on the side that mounts to the manifold)? In my last picture above. The air going through there needs to find it's way into the plenum - but the '05 manifold doesn't use an IAC and as such doesn't have a corresponding hole where the TB mounts to the manifold.

So, in order to have a working IAC I have to find a way to route the air.

Make sense?
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:57 PM   #38
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You don't have a very good picture of the '05 manifold inlet, but could you machine out a hole for the IAC right where the TB mounts (or more correctly the spacer)?
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
You don't have a very good picture of the '05 manifold inlet, but could you machine out a hole for the IAC right where the TB mounts (or more correctly the spacer)?

Nope. That would make things really easy if I could. I'll take a picture later.
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:12 PM   #40
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Here is the picture of the mounting surface on the manifold:



If I rotated the TB 180 degrees it would almost work. But it doesn't, so I think the spacer idea is the way to go - unless someone else has a bright idea.
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:27 PM   #41
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I think the only other option would be to dremel out the lower edge of the passage in the actual throttle body, making a bypass there, and not worrying about the plenum at all...
it's that, or relocate the iac to the plenum somewhere
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:31 PM   #42
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Yeah, I've been looking at the TB and thinking about the possibility of having a hole put on top, but it's a difficult area to drill (curves). Cutting the bottom of the passage wouldn't leave a good place for me to thread a nipple into.
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:36 PM   #43
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Here's a shot of the TB that shows the area I'd need to drill. The biggest thing with doing it here is I think I'd want to maintain the hole size that the TB already has (the round part not the big opening). I could plug the rest after with alumaloy.

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Old 04-11-2006, 08:39 PM   #44
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maybe the spacer plate is just the way to go....would solve the linkage issue too..and comes with a preshaped bracket for the cables that could be welded or bolted on fairly easily.

wait...maybe i got confused...drill from the outside? what would route through there? i thought it was just a bypass from the front of the butterfly to the back though the iac...
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:50 PM   #45
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I updated the picture above with two spots I could drill. And I just figured out what YOU meant! haha. I put in pinkish what I think your idea was. Genius!

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Old 04-12-2006, 02:43 AM   #46
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ok, i think i have the solution for you, IAC, and MAP.

for the IAC, you will most likley need the TB spacer. if oyu get one for the 00 TB, itll have the IAC passage in it. drill into that passage from the TB air passage. that technically vents the IAC into the plenum as it would regularly, just not on the actual intake manifold. no need to mess up the TB, just mess up or make the spacer.

for the MAP, all it does is measure the vacuum. Tee off a large vacuum line, and cut off the mounting area from the 00 mani. somehow, butld a airtight box out of it that a vacuum line could go onto. i know it sounds wierd, but ill try to explain.



basically, what im saying, is that the MAP doesnt have to be ON the manifold.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:39 AM   #47
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they also do have aftermarket map sensors that just connect to the standard smaller size vacuum tubing. if the wiring was the same, you could use that.

your voltage on the reference out, hot reference, and all the other wires would need to correspond to the same measurments for it to work though. It's been alot of time since EET and I can't remember what to call any of the wires technically, so forgive me. but you understand what I am talking about?
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Old 04-12-2006, 10:34 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS
basically, what im saying, is that the MAP doesnt have to be ON the manifold.
That's a good point. On my car the Absolute Pressure sensor is mounted on the passenger side strut tower, and is connected to the manifold by a vacuum line. (That's the factory arrangement).

Pat
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Old 04-19-2006, 12:05 PM   #49
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Just to update - I'm having a local machining company make the spacer for me. I'll post pictures when it's done.
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Old 04-19-2006, 01:51 PM   #50
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I just dropped the manifold and TB off at the machine shop - it should be done by next Wednesday.
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