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Old 10-03-2001, 08:03 AM   #1
Avedis
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Default Anything similar to Velodyne for mobile audio?

I have a Velodyne VR1512 sub for my sound system at home... is there anything comparable in sound quality (sound quality is more important than sheer volume in my book) for mobile audio? I'm new to car audio, all of my other cars haven't been worth putting anything into until now.

I realize that I won't likely get an active & passive driver (etc) in a sub that fits decently into an '02 WRX wagon but I'm hoping for something that sounds really nice...

I like quality bass that will reproduce the right tones, not just the kind that makes the air go 'whoooosh' each time I play my 'Rave 'till Dawn' CD, but still feel like I'm the one sitting down at the drum set going 'thump' on the bass drum when I pop in my Extreme III CD.

--jeff (sometimes being an audiophile (for home audio) is a curse. If only I didn't know what I was missing! =)
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Old 10-03-2001, 09:14 AM   #2
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the truth is you'll never really get the kind of reproduction you're used to at home. The best thing you can do is get some very capable drivers and plenty of clean juice and then use DSP and extensive equalization to bring your car up to a level close to the home.

I don't see my car as competition for my (very high end) home system. It's just a very different sound in there. I wouldn't ever listen to orchestral or choral music in my car but then again I wouldn't listen to hiphop on my home system either.
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Old 10-03-2001, 10:57 AM   #3
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You'd be amazed at what you can do with a car's audio system with a bit of time and a whole lot of money . Same thing goes for home audio really..its just in home you spend the money on products & not on installation. In car it gets split about 50/50..or you could actually spend more on installation from time to time. Application is everything...if it wasnt..you could buy a velodyne & a power inverter & throw it in your trunk. Of course you know that wont work right .
Theres tons of autosound manufacturers out there that really have it goin on as far as quality equipment. However...with a poor application the best products in the world arent worth spit. Id reccomend finding a reputable car audio specialist in your area & talk to whoever is the sound guru there. Every good shop has a few. If you came to my shop we'd start discussing (if this was a no restrictions type of job) Image Dynamics Comp Horns, Zapco Comp amplifiers & Image Dynamics subs. I carry lots of other stuff here, most of it better known than ID..but I can honestly say that there might be only one or two other speaker manufacturers that could hold a candle to their speakers.

To specifically address your question...check out the new IDMAX 12...while it looks like a real beast, its hands down the cleanest, smoothest, and fastest sub i've had the pleasure to listen to.
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Old 10-03-2001, 11:40 AM   #4
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Bazooka tubes use an active sub and a passive radiator to get clear full souond out of a small sub using a small amount of space.

Brad
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Old 10-03-2001, 11:54 AM   #5
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bazooka tube is to velodyne as WRX is to Kia Rio.

*leaps into flame bunker*

Honestly.. their aren't too many subs for the car that are gonna come close. McIntosh subs tend to sound nice and musical.. I've hear Boston Pro's are good too.

And no I'm not biased.. I have eclipse aluminum 12's in my car there are a bunch of speakers that sound better.. but boy do they pound
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Old 10-03-2001, 01:39 PM   #6
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i just saw in crutchfield there is a kenwood sub that uses passive and active subs (or something similar). supposedly it can fit under your seat! but i didn't see the dimensions.
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Old 10-03-2001, 03:04 PM   #7
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I'd second the ID sub, but don't they require a lot of volume? Maybe look into a JL Audio if you want clean, but not extreme volumes. Also, there are Velodyne car subs. The DF10sc and DF12sc, I think. Don't know if they are still available. You could consider Focal, but i have a problem with paying over $1300 for a 13" subwoofer. Maybe that's just me?

Neil
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Old 10-03-2001, 03:39 PM   #8
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Image Dynamics actually has the smallest enclosure sizes available. IDQ 12 go down to .55 cubic ft. My MAX12 is in .9 cu ft & plays very smoothly. I am currently unaware of anyone else making a 12" sub thatll fit in anything less than .8 (JL audio)(kicker solobaric) other than the IDQ.
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Old 10-03-2001, 04:54 PM   #9
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actually, if you wanted to spend the time looking, velodyne made woofers for car applications, i installed one about a year ago. best sounding sub i have ever heard in a car before. You could also look into the JBL GTI subs or the JL W7's when the come out soon.

Kevin
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Old 10-03-2001, 06:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Bazooka tubes use an active sub and a passive radiator to get clear full souond
As a former employee of SAS (Manufacturer of the Bazooka line of products), I can tell you this is totally untrue. If you take your tube apart you will find there is only one driver. It is mounted directly to the extruded tube. The other end is vibration welded (not the technical term, but you get the point) onto the extrusion. If it's an amplified product the amplifier is screwed onto the end.

It's a basic ported enclosure. It only has a single driver. If it's passive the driver is connected directly to the terminal cup.

Hope I helped
Dustin
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Old 10-03-2001, 09:30 PM   #11
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Thumbs up Wow!

Thanks for all the speedy replies everybody!

I'll probably go visit SpeakerLab (where I got my home audio) and see if they have any left-laying-around Velodyne subs for mobile audio, and some Image Dynamics too. I guess I'll look elsewhere if they don't have what I'm looking for. They definately knew what they were doing as far as home audio, and they're MECP cert'd for mobile audio installs and their work is guaranteed.

Thanks again for the input!

--jeff (now, to make the speakers "invisible" in my wagon once they're installed... heh)
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Old 10-08-2001, 04:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by lenyx
bazooka tube is to velodyne as WRX is to Kia Rio.

*leaps into flame bunker*
I think you got that backwards....

Bazooka Tube is to Velodyne as Rio is to WRX.... at least I HOPE that's what you were trying to say!
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Old 10-08-2001, 05:03 PM   #13
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Jeff - You can use any sub you'd like within a car, it's just a matter of how much space you're will to give up. Most non-auto subs require from 1 cf to the entire car. Most quality subs use around 3 cf of interior volume, like the NHT1279 or Audire Shiva (built in Seattle at 1111 Elliott). Subs built for the car use 0.3 to 1 cf. BTW, by "Application" David means a proper box and amp. Also, car's have cabin gain below the frequency at which a single half wave can no longer occur in the cabin. For example, if the longest measurable distance within the car is 10 ft, then anything below ~60 Hz will have a gain. I have a pair of Boston Pro 8.4s that technically only produce down to 55 Hz but in a car, the real response has been down to 30 Hz (-3db). It is a different environment.

Buy an amp that can handle what you're intending to do. If you're using 2 4 ohm subs, make sure that the amp can handle 2 ohms mono. Many people try to push the capabilities of the amp and the amount of distortion becomes significant. If you are serious, use a separate for each sub (and separate from the rest of the system.)

Lastly, don't be surprised if the only way to get acceptable bass is to run a subsonic filter and the active crossover at below 80 Hz. Funky things happen in a car and locatable bass is one of them.
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Old 10-08-2001, 10:08 PM   #14
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If you need something close to Velodynes standards you might want to look into www.dynaudio.com IMO they make the very best in car audio equipment. They use there extensive home audio background to lay the groundwork for there car audio equipment.
I do hope you realize that you do not have to have "The best" equipment to produce incredible sound. Install is THE biggest aspect to how a system in a car is going to sound.
In the inheriently BAD sound domain (the interior of the car that is) of car audio it is next to impossibe to reproduce what you can achieve from home audio, BUT, you can come close.

It all depends on the amount of time and money you and your installer want to spend on the car. Also remember KISS( Keep It Simple Stupid) the more parts you add to the signial chain the more the sound become degraded. An audio system is only as strong as it's weakest link, and procrssors are by far the weakest link in most (not all) systems.

All of this is IMO, but i have worked on some sweet sounding systems working for THE highest end audio store in the Buffalo NY area.
I do not discount any of the other ideas others gave, i just wanted to add.

Peas,
AaRoN
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Old 10-09-2001, 02:54 AM   #15
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i have a moist sounding system in my car. The sub is active/passive. It's a boston accoustics 10" competition piece. it was 400 bucks with the special box. The thing is VERY clean. I have loved the sound coming from it. It's mated to an eclipse head unit with a 5v pre out, going to an alpine 5 channel amp (i know this isn't the greatest, but hey, i spent a lot for this crap, don't tell me it isn't good :-)) if you wanna know more specs about the sub, i'll find my install sheet and get the model and stuff for you... im me at wop138 if you need it...

spadini
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Old 10-09-2001, 03:56 AM   #16
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I've been out of the car audio scene for a few years now, but I remember a long time ago in Car Audio magazine they did a review of a Saab with a Velodyne sub in it. I remember it had some unique features that required it to be hooked up to some kind of module that compensated for the movement of the car. It was also made of aluminum if I recall correctly. It was real expensive to.

Regan-
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Old 10-09-2001, 04:21 AM   #17
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Verist,

I donno the model # but that was a velodyne "servo" sub, not alot different than the hi-end home subs.

They use a pair of excelorameters (spelling??) That mesures the difference between the movement of the cone VS the movement of the basket IN RELATION to the signal the "black box"(servo controler) is being fed, then the controler compensates for any differences by adding or subtracting from portions of the signal. VERY VERY technical stuff going on for sure.
It has the ability to compensate for road noise and anything elts thrown at it. VERY INCREDIBLE just like there home subs.

Thought you might like some insight,

Peas,
AaRoN
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Old 10-09-2001, 09:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by nhluhr


I think you got that backwards....

Bazooka Tube is to Velodyne as Rio is to WRX.... at least I HOPE that's what you were trying to say!
hehe.. damnit.. I got a 640 on my SAT verbal... no really i did
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Old 10-10-2001, 03:20 AM   #19
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I at home, I am running Martin Logans and Mirage speakers. No car will get close to sounding as good as a good home system. BUT!!! you can get damn close. Your asking about subs, So I'll stick to that. ID12 max is a good sub. But, If you want acuracy, Go with focal. I was running all Focal in my RS and it sounded good, DAMN good considering that the RS is not an Audio friendly car. The cleanest and fastest sub setup I have heard was in a Ferrari F355 running Dyne Audio front stage and 6 Focal 5" subs with all MAcintosh components. Incredible impact and respounce. My 15 is super clean and gets pretty loud. But I guess I am getting away from the bass head syndrome. If I couldn't have a Focal, I would run an IDmax.

www.audiooptions.com
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Old 10-10-2001, 09:35 AM   #20
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McInstosh components don't get along well with WRX's... just an fyi.

I'm still sitting here scratching my head as to how I'm gonna get a 3" deep 6.5 in my doors and make it look/sound good. So much for easy install
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Old 10-10-2001, 10:41 PM   #21
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Yep, deep components can be a pain. I fit my CDT Audio in, just barely. 6.5" with just shy of 3" depth. Had to do some creative work, wood spacer, then inverted grill. Was still tight. Getting the door skin on/off is a pain. If you don't do it just right, it rattles like hell. I had to use quite a bit of Dynamat around the speaker to seal it off, both to stop some rattles and improve bass response(luckily, I got the stuff free, as I hadn't planned on using it). I still have some more I need to put in the door to really finish it off. However, they do fit. I'm not convinced, though, that they sound that much better. A deeper 5.25" may have been a better option. Allowing more air space right behind the cone can improve bass response quite a bit, and even though there'd be less surface area, the extra room might make up for it.

Neil
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Old 10-10-2001, 11:36 PM   #22
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Lenyx,

www.dynaudio.com Nuff said
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Old 10-11-2001, 04:42 AM   #23
Avedis
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Default Wow!

Looks like I'm armed to the teeth for when I plan to visit a couple of mobile audio places this Saturday.

Quick question regarding the "depends how much room you're willing to give up" -- where in a wagon would be a good/decent/poor place to put a sub, either acoustically or car-functionality-wise?

I got a wagon to be a little more 'practical' but now I'm wondering if the only subs I'd be able to get that wouldn't hinder the 'practical' part would be under-seat subs? How good are my options? Maybe something small and fast that moves a decent amount of air, or a pair of 'em? I know there's at least one very musical sub for home theatre that is a pair of 8"s that sounds wonderful when compared to more expensive 12" subs.

--jeff (trying to weigh my options before I spend my most recent paycheck )
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Old 10-11-2001, 10:56 PM   #24
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I would go with boston acoustics subs if you want good sound reproduction. Xtant an MTX are also decent But if hook it up with a amp an crossover you will get the desired effect. Good luck
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Old 10-12-2001, 01:07 AM   #25
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Thumbs up

Another brand to look into is Morel. http://www.madisound.com/morel.html
Their drivers are used in very good home audio speakers such as Merlin's models. If your going all out for sq just buy this beast:



Only $680 a piece and you get perfection imho.
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