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Old 04-18-2006, 09:08 PM   #1
dentsport
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Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norwood, MA/www.dentsport.com
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Shop Sport Service
781-551-3399

Default NEW PIC Coilovers WRX!

Hello Guys,

We are proud to be introducing the new line of PIC Performance Coilovers. These are well engineered coilovers that have the features you'd expect from much more expensive pieces. They are also quite easy on the eyes

These have been tested with great succes in the Honda world and through development on a WRX. The WRX was daily driven and successfully completed a number of weekend track days. Besides daily driving and weekend trackdays these coilovers were also tried and tested at the venerable Targa Newfoundland Rally. Suffice to say the coilovers survived without incident and performed very well. You'll be pleased to know that these have also been engineered with more shock travel for the WRX due to its rally heritage.

Two models are offered. The Apex and the Select. Both are terrificly priced and offer a number of quality features. Descriptions of each are below:

Apex:



-Independant Height and Pre-load adjustment. This means you can properly lower the car
-46mm Monotube piston (same size as Coilovers 2-3x's in price)
-More than 240 hrs. of salt spray testing
-6061 Alloy mounts in a fade and chip resistant paint
-Individually matched Spring/Valving...properly tested on a Shock Dyno (Dyno graphs available)
-10k/8k and 8k/6K spring rates available

At this price level there aren't very many quality coilovers offering true height adjustment, a huge 46mm piston, and the development these have gone through.

Select:


-Independant Height and Pre-load adjustment
-46mm Monotube piston
-More than 240hrs. of salt spray testing
-6061 Alloy mounts in a fade and chip resistant paint
-Individually matched Spring/Valving combinations...properly tested on a shock dyno (Dyno graphs available)
-Patented 8 way adjustable damping. This is better suited for differing driving styles/conditions
-Multi Seal Design preventing Oil/Gas leakage
-Pillowball Front mounts/Solid rear plates (camber adjustable FR)
-10K/8K and 8k/6K spring rates available

With the added advantage of 8 way adjustable damping, more robust piston seal, and Front Pillowball mounts it is easy to see that the Select is the choice to go for a high performance street car or track car. This is likely the product for those looking to do track days and aggressive driving on the weekends. Again you'd be hard pressed to find the quality, features and development the Select offer at the price it's offered at.

*These setups are only availabe for 02-04 WRX...there is currently no STi fitment.

Prices:
-Apex: These are normally priced at $999 plus shipping.
-Select: These are normally priced at $1299 plus shipping.

Dentsport Garage will be offering the following prices:
-Apex: $950 SHIPPED
-Select: $1250 SHIPPED

*Special:* The FIRST set of Apex's and Select's sold will recieve an additional $50 discount. That's only $900 shipped for the Apex and $1200 shipped for the Select. Please keep in mind there are only one set of each to be sold at this price.

Please feel free to post, PM, email or call with any questions. You can place your orders through email, PM, or telephone.

Thanks

Dentsport Garage
www.dentsport.com
781-551-3399
louis@dentsport.com
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Last edited by dentsport; 04-18-2006 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-19-2006, 04:43 AM   #2
socrates42
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Default

Fellas I love your stuff, you have the type of shop I have always dreamed of working at/owning plus, your redsox fans. I'd like some more info about re-building re-valveing over time. Do you plan to offer that in house? are the units sealed and therefore never need adjustment? Also I want the 1st set! contact me via email socrates4242 at gmail.com
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:27 PM   #3
dentsport
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Default

Bump

Louis
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Old 05-06-2006, 03:53 PM   #4
Fogrider
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'95 GC8 Rally car, white

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Bump for a shop with an awesome reputation!
and........
What would keep these from fitting an '04 STI?
thanks,
Fogrider
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:25 PM   #5
Scooby921
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What type of roads was the WRX driven on during development for the valving? I'm very interested in purchasing a set (hopefully soon so I can use them at our memorial day autocross), but want to make sure these are going to be comfortable for my daily drive. I'm sure they are top-notch for autocrossing.

My daily drive covers most of the worst roads in metro Detroit. Lets just say the roads are poor enough that my entire drive to work is currently under construction!

EDIT: Disregard the above questions...I just called and ordered the Selects.

Last edited by Scooby921; 05-16-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:13 PM   #6
dentsport
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781-551-3399

Default

Thanks again for your order

Louis
www.dentsport.com
781-551-3399
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Old 05-20-2006, 05:10 PM   #7
Focus4
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Why can't the PIC's be used on an 04 Sti... it should physically fit, so is it just because they weren't designed for them? Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:23 PM   #8
dentsport
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781-551-3399

Default

No they will fit...you are correct

Louis
www.dentsport.com
781-551-3399
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Old 05-23-2006, 11:56 PM   #9
Scooby921
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'13 JCW

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Up to 500 miles and loving them! Review coming...as soon as I get a proper alignment and put them through the paces of an autocross.
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:51 PM   #10
phatning
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Tempting...

Just a couple of questions on Select...

1. Damping adjustment is on top, right? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere nor on PIC's website.

2. Will these fit a wagon? I would assume that they would since they have camber plates in front. However, given the difference in front suspension between wagon and sedan, what will the actual camber adjustment range be if these were to put on a wagon?

Thank you!
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Old 05-25-2006, 01:33 PM   #11
dentsport
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781-551-3399

Default

Yes damping adjustment is on the top...and yes they will fit a wagon

Louis
www.dentsport.com
781-551-3399
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:10 PM   #12
phatning
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Hmm, I think I made a quick assumption.

When you said 'pillowball front mounts...(camber adjustable FR)', are these actually camber plates in front?

It would be great if you could take a picture of it so we can see (both damping adjustment and camber plates)...
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:12 PM   #13
dentsport
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Default

Yes they are indeed camber adjustable in the front and are camber plates. The rear does not have camber plates.

Thanks,

Louis
www.dentsport.com
781-551-3399
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Old 05-29-2006, 01:54 PM   #14
DVN428
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WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921
Up to 500 miles and loving them! Review coming...as soon as I get a proper alignment and put them through the paces of an autocross.
I'm extremely interested in these. How's the ride so far? Do they bounce and what spring rates are you running?
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Old 05-29-2006, 10:13 PM   #15
Scooby921
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'13 JCW

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatning
Hmm, I think I made a quick assumption.

When you said 'pillowball front mounts...(camber adjustable FR)', are these actually camber plates in front?

It would be great if you could take a picture of it so we can see (both damping adjustment and camber plates)...
Here are some pictures of the top plates and also the lower collars. The front camber plate is designed / cut with a rear sloping angle. This is so you get positive caster as you increase negative camber. There is no orientation that only creates camber adjustment. The lower collars have slotted holes (front and rear) for additional camber adjustment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DVN428
I'm extremely interested in these. How's the ride so far? Do they bounce and what spring rates are you running?
I have the 8k/6k setup. It works out well for a daily driver and is definitely nice for autocrossing. The ride is good on most roads. Aside from the really large bumps / pot holes, it rides a lot like the Espelir GT / D-spec combo I was using before. Stiffer than stock, but not enough to jar your head loose.

I had an autocross today and these are great. I will still be writing a full review, but just as a quick note....
The last autocross was run with the Espelir GT / D-spec setup. I finished 2 seconds behind 1st place. This afternoon I was only 4 tenths back of the same car / driver going into my final run. Had I not decided to trail-brake into an off camber turn, drift, and clip a cone, I would have had the winning time! Of course there is a lot to be done with my driving skills, but its amazing what a stiffer suspension setup can do for you!

These coilovers are cheap in price, but the build quality seems very high, and so far the valving has been very good for a dual-duty car. At this point I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a good coilover on a budget. Sure you could drop thousands on a fully adjustable setup and be top-notch, but not all of us have that much money.
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Old 05-29-2006, 10:18 PM   #16
5spdfrk
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How noisy are they?
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Old 05-30-2006, 04:48 PM   #17
Scooby921
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'13 JCW

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Fronts are not bad at all. When you first turn the wheel in the morning, they squeak a little bit. Other than that, I don't hear any clunks or squeaks while driving. My rears (or something in the rear of my car) are clunking. I've been in contact with DSG and PIC, and I'm trying to find the problem. This is something PIC and DSG haven't run into before, so it may just be my car.

At the time my rear seats weren't bolted down and there were some other items bouncing around in the trunk. I've bolted them in and added a little stick-on foam weather stripping to some areas to reduce rubbing and vibrating. The last thing to try is the rear seat belt pivots (upper adjustable ones). With the much stiffer rear suspension, it might be the belts that are bouncing. I'm going to try taping or bungee-strapping them down tomorrow to see if it solves the problem.

There is a good chance my problems are an isolated occurrence. I've been getting great support from DSG and PIC. I'm fairly confident it is just the random stuff I have bouncing around in the back. If it is the coilovers, PIC is already waiting for a response so they know what needs fixing!
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Old 05-30-2006, 05:00 PM   #18
Focus4
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Are the rear mounts rubber or are they metal like the front??
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Old 05-30-2006, 05:06 PM   #19
phatning
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Scooby921 - Thanks for posting those pictures... The quality 'looks' pretty good.
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Old 05-30-2006, 05:27 PM   #20
DVN428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921
The last autocross was run with the Espelir GT / D-spec setup. I finished 2 seconds behind 1st place. This afternoon I was only 4 tenths back of the same car / driver going into my final run. Had I not decided to trail-brake into an off camber turn, drift, and clip a cone, I would have had the winning time! Of course there is a lot to be done with my driving skills, but its amazing what a stiffer suspension setup can do for you!
Were these times on the same course layout when you had the two different setups? I'm just wondering if the times were a result of the coilovers or a different course layout that was favorable towards your vehicle. Or perhaps you yourself improved.

Last edited by DVN428; 05-30-2006 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 05-31-2006, 08:26 PM   #21
Scooby921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVN428
Were these times on the same course layout when you had the two different setups? I'm just wondering if the times were a result of the coilovers or a different course layout that was favorable towards your vehicle. Or perhaps you yourself improved.
I will admit that me getting better is part of it, but I will give the suspension credit. Its definitely a combination of things. The course was different this time, but definitely more technical. Both courses were run in the same parking lot, so the surface is the same. In fact this course is a modified version of what we ran last fall at the season ender. I was 1.5 seconds behind on that course last fall.

The new suspension provides better feedback and has a lot less roll to it. The stiffer springs don't compress as much, so the camber change is minimal. The tires keep the same level of grip through most corners. The new suspension also has noticably (sp?) less understeer. The old setup seemed to plow straight ahead in hard corners. The rear end rotates a lot easier with the coilovers.

I'm happy with it. I've got another event this coming weekend in South Bend @ the Tirerack facility. I might also be trying a time attack at the local race track in a few weeks.

I'll keep posting updates in here as I drive and compete on them more.
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:29 PM   #22
phatning
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Scooby921 - What's your suspension setup besides PIC coilover? Also, could you give us more of your impression of the coilover from regular street driving perspective? I'm intereted to know how 'comfortable' (for my wife and kid) are these PIC on street.

Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2006, 01:45 PM   #23
Scooby921
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The rest of my suspension includes whiteline 22mm FSB and 24mm adjustable RSB. I skipped the strut braces since they'll make the daily drive more harsh. I also skipped endlinks since I can't justify $100+ for a couple small pieces of metal until the plastic ones snap.

From a street driving perspective they are good on most roads. Its hard to have a bad suspension on smooth roads. Like any upgraded suspension, these are definitely stiffer and a little rougher over bumps and pot holes. But given the spring rates (448lb/in front and 335lb/in rear), these perform very well. I was expecting a very rough ride and some kind of kidney massage. In reality, they aren't bad at all.

I'd compare the ride to that of the Espelir GT spring / Tokico D-spec strut combo I was running before. Those springs are only (280f/230r). The PIC's are 1.5 times stiffer, but ride almost the same. Only over the larger bumps and holes do you notice the stiffness difference. Instead of a bounce and a bit of a jarr, you will get a sudden jounce and feel the vibration. Overall noise isn't bad. That is the NVH / BSR trade-off with stiffer suspension components.

Street comfort is bearable for me and most people I know. So far no one has complained about the ride. Most comment on how tame it seems. It kinda shows the effort PIC put into valving the dampers for streetability. I haven't been in many other cars with coilover setups, so its hard to gauge these against other options. I have a friend installing Tein Flex's this weekend. I'll have to try those out and compare. I'd expect them to be worse for ride quality simply because they are valved for smooth roads and race tracks.

I will say that the worst part of my suspension is the seats. Its pretty common knowledge that the stock seats are like a spring board. I haven't mentioned the bounciness in the ride because I know its the seats, not the suspension. That is definitely something to consider when hauling family though. Short trips are not a problem. Long drives may get annoying on bad roads. Of course that can be solved by swapping in some new seats (Sparco Torino or Monza perhaps).

EDIT: Someone commented on the bounciness description above...here's an update:

I suppose I wasn't clear enough with that description. Its not a constant bounce on every road for every mile. It generally happens to me while driving on a crappy highway surface. One where they've cut the concrete every 15 feet creating constant bumps. Its not just these coilovers, its every suspension setup I've had on my car...even stock.

The problem is just further amplified by the rather soft, cushy, bouncy stock seats. I haven't really had a problem on most other road surfaces. I also think you could reduce the amount of bounce and pitch by playing with the damping some more.

Last edited by Scooby921; 06-05-2006 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 06-01-2006, 03:05 PM   #24
phatning
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Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciated it.

I also spoke with both Louis from Dentsport and Jim from PIC. They were both very helpful. Jim in particular answered all my questions. I am definitely very impressed with customer services from both firms and I went ahead and placed my order.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:11 AM   #25
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Big thanks to Louis and the team at DSG for their support! This is Al from PIC, I haven't signed up for advertising yet so I didn't sign up with the company name or anything. But any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact Louis or myself.
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