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Old 01-08-2006, 10:45 PM   #1
Patrick Olsen
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Default Hood lightening mod for BD/BG cars

So, in light of the fact that our stock hoods weigh about 8 million pounds, and CF hoods are hard to come by and $$$, I've been thinkin... I don't have a good picture to post as a reference, but what I'm thinking of doing is Dremeling off the hood liner (not the foamy sound deadening, I'm talking the inner ribs and stuff). Not sure if that makes sense, but the hood is basically 2 layers of steel - the actual hood itself, and then the underside. I think I could cut a few inches in from the edge all the way around, leaving the latch, hinges, and enough structure so the thing doesn't fold in half.

Thoughts? I think it would work fine, but obviously I'm wary of the hood, well, folding itself in half.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 01-08-2006, 10:54 PM   #2
sha_zapple
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I think youd need to add at least some new support, or else the hood will seizure in the wind
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Old 01-08-2006, 11:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
not the foamy sound deadening
I always thought that stuff was heat insulation, not sound deadening.

Keeps the paint from getting baked by the engine heat.
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Old 01-08-2006, 11:52 PM   #4
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Sport Compact Car did this on a Sentra SE a couple of years ago when they prepped it ghetto-style for track events. They made a lot of dents in the hood cuz there's a dense glue used to hold the hood down to the cross member supports. It worked, was lighter, but wasn't much to look at and flexed a lot during races. You will need hood pins as well.

Christian
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dr. Scoob
Sport Compact Car did this on a Sentra SE a couple of years ago when they prepped it ghetto-style for track events. They made a lot of dents in the hood cuz there's a dense glue used to hold the hood down to the cross member supports. It worked, was lighter, but wasn't much to look at and flexed a lot during races. You will need hood pins as well.

Christian
I have that issue, I thought they said that they dented it because they tried to use a screwdriver to pry the ribs off rather than using a hacksaw blade to cut the glue off.

The cheaper/better way to do it might be to buy another steel hood and give it to someone who will mold fiberglass or carbon. I know a local guy and will probably have him make a few as soon as I get a day to go visit him.
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD7000
I always thought that stuff was heat insulation, not sound deadening.

Keeps the paint from getting baked by the engine heat.
I've heard both. I'm pretty sure it's more for sound than for heat. There was a big debate about it on the Mustang forums way back, and I ended up removing it from my Mustang's hood with no issues. I know that's apples and oranges to some extent, but if a big ole V8 crammed into the tiny Mustang engine compartment doesn't generate enough heat to harm the paint, I wouldn't think the Legacy would be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dr. Scoob
Sport Compact Car did this on a Sentra SE a couple of years ago when they prepped it ghetto-style for track events. They made a lot of dents in the hood cuz there's a dense glue used to hold the hood down to the cross member supports. It worked, was lighter, but wasn't much to look at and flexed a lot during races. You will need hood pins as well.
Thanks, Christian, I think I vaguely remember reading about that. I just can't visualize the Legacy with hood pins. I have seen some nice flush ones, I'll have to see if I can find them again. Here - http://www.aerocatch.com/automotive-home.html .

Pat
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:28 AM   #7
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The foam under hood serves the following purposes:

To make the engine quieter when the engine is running.
To blanket the engine, in the event of a fire. Theory being that the plastic clips melt, and foam(or whatever it really is) drops on the engine, helping to put out a fire.

It's not really a heat shield. It absorbs some of the heat, but isn't really designed to reflect it. The paint won't be damaged in any way if it's not there. But you don't have fire protection either. That didn't stop me, as I took mine off long ago.
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:50 AM   #8
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I don't know why I haven't taken mine off. It looks like ass, as it's been soaked by coolant on a number of occasions when my head gaskets blew.

Pat
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:33 AM   #9
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My personal opinion...

edit: damn that's a big pic!
Hood pins good:


Hood pins bad:
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:17 AM   #10
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Best:






mranlet, if you're going to get something molded, it'd be killer to make a larger hood opening (taller scoop) for the guys running forced induction. I'd certainly be interested in a carbon hood, and if there's a few guys interested, the cost would probably go down for you as well.

Just a thought, though I know you're going the ITB route.......
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:26 AM   #11
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I donít have any under-hood insulation and I havenít experienced any problems from it.

Man that hood will buckle like crazy with no under-reinforcement framing. Definitely pins would be mandatory, plus Iíd try it out of a junk-yard hood first too. Maybe you can find one from an L, then cut your own scoop setup (i.e. taller wrx/sti scoop).

PS: Iíd be happy to help you out with the project when youíre in the area in the coming months
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sybir
Best:






mranlet, if you're going to get something molded, it'd be killer to make a larger hood opening (taller scoop) for the guys running forced induction. I'd certainly be interested in a carbon hood, and if there's a few guys interested, the cost would probably go down for you as well.

Just a thought, though I know you're going the ITB route.......
Who makes those latches? I have an Option magazine with that car and perhaps the same picture with some sort of caption, but I sure as hell can't read it.

If the footprint of one of the aftermarket WRX scoops is the same or larger, I could mold a OEM style (i.e. Stealthy) Outback or LGT hood and for those who want a larger scoop, just cut away the little one and rivet or resin on the larger unit... I personally will opt for a OEM style Outback hood and an airbox to seperate out rain and debris since. I'm effectively incapacitated until my R200 axles come in, so it may be a while. I'll keep the world updated of any progress.
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:30 PM   #13
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mranlet
Who makes those latches? I have an Option magazine with that car and perhaps the same picture with some sort of caption, but I sure as hell can't read it.
Those are the same style latches I already posted a link to above - http://www.aerocatch.com/automotive-home.html .

Pat
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:53 PM   #14
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For other people, a place that is not utilized too often are technical/vocational schools. There are alot of schools that will mill/lathe parts for you for cost of materials, because the students are doing it, they can not charge because the person doesn't hold a degree.

I know Colorado State has a CF molding lab, that they use for their mini-racers and other projects.
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:59 PM   #15
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Pat: here is a Legacy from Ireland with hood pins:


It's from a member's thread on www.sl-i.net
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:48 PM   #16
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Hmm i wonder how hard it was to get that bumper to fit...
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:18 PM   #17
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The Impreza bumper is supposedly the same width as the Legacy. I have a pic in another thread with an S14 Kouki R33 GTR style bumper mocked up on my car: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892802

The school that I go to, University of South Florida, has a CF lab for their formula SAE car. Maybe I'll check that out too.

Other front end lightening that I'd like to do involves a Braille Auto No-Weight battery, bumper support lightening/replacement, fiberglass front bumper (which, BTW, didn't Pat win a fiberglass bumper on Ebay recently?), lightweight crank pulley and almunium control arms. The carbon hood would be the most bling of all those, and Paul Eklund had claimed that up to 40lbs of weight could be shaved by going from the metal Impreza hood to a fiberglass version. Blake Fuller also told me that he shaved 35lbs by going from the OEM Subaru battery to his No-Weight model, which is no bigger than 2 VHS tapes laid back to back.
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:07 PM   #18
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A link to this battery?
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:10 PM   #19
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http://www.brailleauto.com/

There are aparently 2 models now, a 11.5lb'er and a 15lb'er.
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
Those are the same style latches I already posted a link to above - http://www.aerocatch.com/automotive-home.html .

Pat
Yep, Top Secret is actually a distributor for the latches. One of the US retailers lists the non-locking set at 86 and the locking ones under $100, which is a steal for somehting that clean and functional.
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mranlet
Who makes those latches? I have an Option magazine with that car and perhaps the same picture with some sort of caption, but I sure as hell can't read it.

If the footprint of one of the aftermarket WRX scoops is the same or larger, I could mold a OEM style (i.e. Stealthy) Outback or LGT hood and for those who want a larger scoop, just cut away the little one and rivet or resin on the larger unit... I personally will opt for a OEM style Outback hood and an airbox to seperate out rain and debris since. I'm effectively incapacitated until my R200 axles come in, so it may be a while. I'll keep the world updated of any progress.
Yeah, that's the limitation, as the molded scoop on the Legacy has a wider footprint than any of the WRX scoops from the different generations.

What might be cool is to pick a scoop style (bugeye, blobeye, the new '06's) and integrate that cutout; you could do one of the reverse scoops on an NA car for venting purposes, or place any aftermarket or OEM scoop on. A hood with a replaceable scoop element would be killer, but it's not your responsibility to make it happen (would just be cool if you have access to a company that's interested).


I talked to Seibon at SEMA, and they're just not convinced there's a market, especially at the prices low production implies; it's rough; a lot of people would buy a carbon hood if it was like most other cars, in the 300-400 range, but when you talk about 800-900 plus shipping for a hood with a tiny opening (when most buyers are going turbo) it's a tough sell.
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Old 01-10-2006, 03:41 AM   #22
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My buddy removed the "hood ribs" on his Eclipse. It weighs so much less it's not funny. Only draw back is when it's popped up with the hood stand the hood sags a lot. He also had to install hood pins.
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sybir
What might be cool is to pick a scoop style (bugeye, blobeye, the new '06's) and integrate that cutout; you could do one of the reverse scoops on an NA car for venting purposes, or place any aftermarket or OEM scoop on.
Iím still a big fan of how Jeremy (Crucial Racing) modified his hood for the perfect size/fitting scoop. He took a non-scooped legacy hood off an L or something (no molded scoop footprint) and a JDM sti bugeye scoop (taller then wrx, shorter then US sti). He then had a body shop cut out the scoop location yet leave enough material to bend/form ears for the sti scoop to mount. The L hood has the same underbracing as the GT hoods including scoop framing only with no indentation.

Look at the difference:

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Old 01-10-2006, 09:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason01
My buddy removed the "hood ribs" on his Eclipse. It weighs so much less it's not funny. Only draw back is when it's popped up with the hood stand the hood sags a lot. He also had to install hood pins.
Easy fix, use hood struts. One on each side.
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideLegacy
Hmm i wonder how hard it was to get that bumper to fit...
Currently working on finding that out at SL-I.net
The car I posted is located in Ireland.
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