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Old 04-23-2006, 06:28 PM   #1
gaby
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Default 39 Degres Max Timing

Is 39 degres the max timing with UTEC?
My DSM max is 45 degres.

Subaru Rally blue GSX 90
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Old 04-23-2006, 07:59 PM   #2
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No.
The Utec will run what ever you tell it. Unless you run into to det.

TMS
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:45 AM   #3
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I thought there was a limit at 39 due to the position sensor and the spark dwell. I don't know for sure tho.
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma
I thought there was a limit at 39 due to the position sensor and the spark dwell. I don't know for sure tho.
It has been a while since I have run the WRX Utec. But I know the Sti Utec will go over 40*. In fact in my low load columns I have ~45*. No melted coils yet, and I have been running the Utec in this car for over 1 year.

TMS
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Old 04-24-2006, 04:56 PM   #5
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*nod*

I'd be interested to know where the position sensor triggers relative to TDC on the WRX and the STi. Also what they use for spark dwell. Sounds like a question for Nathan or whomever at TXS.
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaby
Is 39 degres the max timing with UTEC?
My DSM max is 45 degres.

Subaru Rally blue GSX 90
Under what conditions does your DSM run 45*?
Under light load cruising ~70mph the Sti runs ~46* on the stock tune.
I was under the impression that the DSM guys thought the Subaru guys ran stupid amounts of timing. Isn't ~7* at peak torque what the 4G63 runs? Where an Sti can run 18-19*.

TMS<--gone researching.
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:30 PM   #7
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Stock EVO8 Utec Timing map from http://www.turboxs.com/downloads/Evo8Stage1OLFv1.TXT
So I was close. I see 20.8* as the max timing #'s.


Code:
Timing Map
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [17.2]   [15.2]   [13.2]   [12.2]   [10.7]   [10.7]   [10.8]   [10.4]   [10.3]   [10.2]
   [-100]   [16.8]   [13.8]   [11.8]   [10.8]    [9.3]    [9.3]    [9.4]      [9]    [8.9]    [8.8]
   [-100]   [15.8]   [12.8]   [10.8]    [9.8]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.4]      [8]    [7.9]    [7.8]
   [-100]   [14.8]   [11.8]    [9.8]    [8.8]    [7.3]    [7.3]    [7.4]      [7]    [6.9]    [6.8]
   [-100]   [14.8]   [11.8]    [9.8]    [8.8]    [7.3]    [7.3]    [7.4]      [7]    [6.9]    [6.8]
   [-100]   [14.8]   [12.8]   [10.8]    [9.8]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.4]      [8]    [7.9]    [7.8]
   [-100]   [14.8]   [12.8]   [10.8]    [9.8]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.4]      [8]    [7.9]    [7.8]
   [-100]   [13.8]   [11.8]    [9.8]    [8.8]    [7.3]    [7.3]    [7.4]      [7]    [6.9]    [6.8]
   [-100]   [12.8]   [10.8]    [8.8]    [7.8]    [6.3]    [6.3]    [6.4]      [6]    [5.9]    [5.8]
   [-100]   [12.8]    [9.8]    [8.8]    [7.8]    [6.3]    [6.3]    [6.4]    [5.5]    [5.4]    [5.3]
   [-100]   [12.6]    [9.6]    [8.6]    [7.6]    [6.1]    [5.7]    [5.8]    [4.6]    [4.5]    [4.4]
   [-100]   [13.1]   [11.1]   [10.1]    [9.1]    [7.6]    [7.1]    [7.2]    [5.5]    [5.4]    [5.3]
   [-100]   [13.2]   [11.2]   [10.2]    [9.2]    [7.7]    [7.2]    [7.3]    [5.9]    [5.8]    [5.7]
   [-100]   [12.5]   [10.5]    [9.5]    [8.5]      [7]      [7]    [7.1]      [6]    [5.9]    [5.8]
   [-100]   [12.7]   [10.7]    [9.7]    [8.7]    [7.2]    [7.2]    [7.3]    [6.9]    [6.8]    [6.7]
   [-100]      [9]    [7.5]    [7.5]    [7.5]    [7.5]    [7.5]    [7.2]    [7.1]    [7.1]      [7]
   [-100]    [9.7]    [8.2]    [8.2]    [8.2]    [8.2]    [8.2]    [7.9]    [7.8]    [7.8]    [7.7]
   [-100]    [9.8]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.3]    [8.3]      [8]    [7.9]    [7.9]    [7.8]
   [-100]   [11.7]   [11.7]   [11.7]   [11.7]   [11.7]   [11.7]   [11.4]   [11.3]   [10.9]   [10.8]
   [-100]   [12.3]   [12.3]   [12.3]   [12.3]   [12.3]   [12.3]     [12]   [11.9]   [11.1]     [11]
   [-100]   [13.9]   [13.9]   [13.9]   [13.9]   [13.9]   [13.9]   [13.6]   [13.5]   [12.7]   [12.6]
   [-100]   [15.7]   [15.7]   [15.7]   [15.7]   [15.7]   [15.7]   [15.4]   [15.3]   [15.3]   [15.2]
   [-100]   [16.2]   [16.2]   [16.2]   [16.2]   [16.2]   [16.2]   [15.9]   [15.8]   [15.8]   [15.7]
   [-100]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.2]   [16.1]   [16.1]     [16]
   [-100]   [17.6]   [17.6]   [17.6]   [17.6]   [17.6]   [17.6]   [17.3]   [17.2]   [17.2]   [17.1]
   [-100]   [17.8]   [17.8]   [17.8]   [17.8]   [17.8]   [17.8]   [17.5]   [17.4]   [17.4]   [17.3]
   [-100]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.2]   [18.1]   [18.1]     [18]
   [-100]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.5]   [20.4]   [20.4]   [20.3]
   [-100]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.5]   [20.4]   [20.4]   [20.3]
   [-100]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.5]   [20.4]   [20.4]   [20.3]
   [-100]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.5]   [20.4]   [20.4]   [20.3]
   [-100]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.8]   [20.5]   [20.4]   [20.4]   [20.3]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100] 
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
Now lets have a look at the Stock Sti Map.


Code:
Timing Map
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [33]
   [-100]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [33]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]
   [-100]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]
   [-100]     [24]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [18]
   [-100]     [22]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [22]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [20]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [20]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [20]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]   [13.5]   [12.5]
   [-100]     [20]     [17]     [17]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [14]   [13.5]   [12.5]
   [-100]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [18]     [17]     [17]     [16]   [15.5]   [14.5]
   [-100]     [20]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [18.5]   [17.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [15.5]
   [-100]     [20]   [20.5]   [20.5]   [20.5]   [19.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [16.5]
   [-100]     [20]   [20.5]   [20.5]   [20.5]   [19.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [17.5]
   [-100]     [21]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [21]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [19]   [17.5]
   [-100]     [21]     [22]     [22]     [22]     [21]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [20]   [18.5]
   [-100]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [23]     [22]     [22]     [21]     [21]     [21]   [19.5]
   [-100]     [23]   [23.5]   [23.5]   [23.5]   [22.5]   [22.5]   [21.5]   [21.5]   [21.5]     [20]
   [-100]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [23]     [22]     [22]     [22]   [20.5]
   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]   [22.5]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]   [23.5]
   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [27]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [24]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]     [28]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100] 
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
I see 34* max. Hrmm.....


TMS
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:47 PM   #8
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Whats this the stock 04 Sti map according to Cobb.



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Old 04-24-2006, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma
*nod*

I'd be interested to know where the position sensor triggers relative to TDC on the WRX and the STi. Also what they use for spark dwell. Sounds like a question for Nathan or whomever at TXS.
It is not something I have ever thought about. What ever it is, it is good for 20+psi(20G) and .042" gap.

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Old 04-24-2006, 06:50 PM   #10
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Well I think you'd have to be insane to run more than 35 on your UTEC. Any time your timing is that high you should be letting the ECU control it.

The highest on my map is like 28-ish, at 6500-7000rpm in my 0% and 10% load columns.

I have big problems with the way the stock STI UTEC map is setup. That EVO map looks more like what the STI map should look like. And obviously so does the actual STI map on the stock ECU. The point is, you should never need to use more than 35 degrees in your UTEC map anyway.
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Old 04-24-2006, 06:54 PM   #11
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I dissagree the Sti has a bore that is 14mm larger than the 4g63 you need it that high for the low rpm/load transistion from ECU to Utec to be nice and smooth most of the time. If anything the TXS map for the Sti is conservitive.

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Old 04-26-2006, 12:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon
Well I think you'd have to be insane to run more than 35 on your UTEC.
Code:
 1455, -9.4,1.4,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+12.1,   2.8,ECU. , -7.5,ECU.  ,1.3, 14.87
 1465, -9.4,1.4,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+12.1,   2.8,ECU. , -7.5,ECU.  ,1.3, 14.83
 1449, -9.4,1.4,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+11.7,   2.8,ECU. , -7.5,ECU.  ,1.3, 14.92
 1905, -1.6,2.1,  9, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.2,   5.7,ECU. , -7.8,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.45
 1889, -1.6,2.1,  9, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,   5.7,ECU. , -7.8,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.45
 1977, -1.8,2.1,  9, 00,   00,  W/B ,+37.0,   5.7,ECU. , -7.9,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.42
 2014, -2.2,2.1, 10, 00,   00,  W/B ,+38.4,   5.0,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.61
 2071, -2.4,2.1, 10, 00,   00,  W/B ,+38.7,   6.7,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.78
 2121, -2.4,2.1, 12, 00,   00,  W/B ,+38.7,   6.8,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.0, 14.74
 2216, -2.0,2.2, 18, 00,   00,  W/B ,+35.8,   8.9,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.83
 2306, -1.6,2.4, 20, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.2,   9.4,+36.5, -9.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.92
 2369, -0.8,2.4, 22, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.9,   9.4,+36.5, -9.5,ECU.  ,2.2, 14.53
 2450, +0.0,2.4, 22, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.9,  10.5,+36.5, -9.9,ECU.  ,2.2, 13.65
 2532, +0.4,2.5, 22, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.3,  10.6,+36.4,-10.2,ECU.  ,2.2, 13.28
 2628, +0.8,2.5, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+35.7,  10.6,+35.7,-10.2,ECU.  ,2.2, 13.28
 2743, +1.0,2.5, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+34.7,  12.0,+35.3,-10.2,ECU.  ,2.3, 12.96
 2796, +1.4,2.6, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+33.9,  13.3,+34.8,-10.5,ECU.  ,2.4, 12.89
 2918, +1.6,2.7, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+33.6,  13.5,+33.3,-11.2,ECU.  ,2.4, 12.86
 3024, +1.9,2.7, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+34.1,  12.8,+32.4,-11.6,ECU.  ,2.4, 12.68
 3109, +2.3,2.7, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+33.9,  14.0,+28.7,-11.7,ECU.  ,2.5, 12.83
 3202, +2.5,2.8, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+34.1,  14.3,+26.9,-12.0,ECU.  ,2.4, 12.78
 3323, +2.9,2.9, 23, 20,   00,  W/B ,+34.1,  15.4,+26.2,-12.7,ECU.  ,2.5, 12.68
 3457, +3.3,2.9, 23, 20,   00,  W/B ,+33.6,  17.3,+25.0,-12.3,ECU.  ,2.6, 12.89
 3527, +3.7,2.9, 20, 20,   00,  W/B ,+33.5,  16.6,+23.8,-11.9,ECU.  ,2.6, 12.92
 3603, +3.7,2.7,  7, 20,   00,  W/B ,+35.9,   6.5,ECU. ,-11.8,ECU.  ,2.0, 12.78
 3683, +1.2,1.4,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+33.9,   3.3,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.2, 11.80
 3611, -2.6,1.3,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+20.2,   5.9,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.2, 11.12
 3343, -6.7,1.2,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+11.4,   5.9,ECU. , -7.7,ECU.  ,1.1, 11.87
 3024,-10.4,1.2,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+11.5,   5.9,ECU. , -7.7,ECU.  ,1.1, 12.67
 2701,-11.6,1.3,  0, 00,   00,  W/B ,+12.8,  31.2,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.5, 13.47
 2463,-11.4,1.8,  3, 00,   00,  W/B ,+26.3,   4.8,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.6, 15.44


Code:
 2298, -3.5,2.1,  9, 00,   00,  W/B ,+39.8,   6.0,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.96
 2286, -3.2,2.1,  9, 00,   00,  W/B ,+39.8,   6.0,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,1.9, 14.92
 2273, -3.2,2.1, 10, 00,   00,  W/B ,+39.9,   6.0,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.0, 14.74
 2313, -3.0,2.3, 15, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,   7.8,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.83
 2302, -2.2,2.3, 16, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.7,   8.5,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.92
 2295, -1.6,2.3, 16, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,   8.0,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.78
 2329, -0.8,2.4, 17, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,   9.4,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.61
 2326, -0.2,2.3, 18, 00,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,   9.5,ECU. , -8.0,ECU.  ,2.2, 14.45
 2349, +0.2,2.4, 20, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,  10.0,+36.5, -9.2,ECU.  ,2.1, 14.49
 2362, +0.4,2.4, 20, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.6,  10.1,+36.5, -9.2,ECU.  ,2.2, 14.53
 2374, +0.8,2.4, 21, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.9,   9.7,+36.4, -9.3,ECU.  ,2.2, 13.87
 2365, +1.2,2.4, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.9,   9.7,+36.2, -9.5,ECU.  ,2.2, 13.02
 2372, +1.4,2.5, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+36.9,  10.3,+36.2, -9.5,ECU.  ,2.2, 12.86
 2382, +1.9,2.5, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+37.4,  10.4,+35.9, -9.5,ECU.  ,2.3, 12.78
 2394, +2.3,2.5, 23, 10,   00,  W/B ,+37.3,  10.9,+35.7, -9.5,ECU.  ,2.2, 12.68
TMS yea I hear ya on the dwell. It is probably consertative or stock so that they don't fear blowing the coils. I'd love to mess with it as map specific. Short dwell for crusing normal power but a longer dwell (.5ms maybee) for some mo powah/gap.
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:18 PM   #13
gaby
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I wanted to post my DSM log, but I dont now how to do it with my palm. I can see up to 45dgrs at 3781rpm, tps 9.7%, idc3.9%, O2 .60v, mafs 56.6hz.
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:38 PM   #14
Freon
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You'd probably be better off just putting "ECU" in the 10% load column below 3500rpm.

Any time you have 30+ in your map, I'd replace it with "ECU"
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Old 04-27-2006, 05:16 PM   #15
cdvma
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Not really. I don't want to be running 33, 34* at 3500 RPM because if I mash it I can hit full boost in an instant so I'd rather not have a big dip in timing. It led to knock so thats why I mapped it out myself. I pull so much MAF voltage that it really screws with it and in the summer when I pull a tad more it will run more timing...it would just get worse.
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